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lo1979

Starting a new veggie garden

lo1979
10 years ago

Good morning! I know variations of these questions have been posted before and I have read many archived posts, but I was hoping to get some recommendations for my situation. I'm starting a new vegetable garden in my yard- it is currently lawn (well mostly weeds) and clay soil. This winter has been quite wet and the ground very soggy. The yard also slopes downward slightly towards the back, but certainly not steeply. For these reasons, raised beds seem to make sense. Thinking about two 4x20ft plots. But I have a few decisions to make and was hoping for some input. Specifically,

1) Not sure the best way to prepare the plot- till, double-dig , or a modified lasagna method? I say modified because I don't know if I could get enough raw organic matter to do lots of layers. If I had a couple layers of cardboard/newspaper, followed by chopped leaves and straw, could I just fill the rest of the box with a bulk compost/soil mix? Also, my soil test revealed a ph of 5 and they recommended mixing in lime. If we went with more of a lasagna method, don't know how to incorporate the lime- maybe sprinkle on the grass/soil before putting down newspaper/cardboard?

2) what is the best material to build the frames with? There seems to be a lot of debate whether pressure treated wood is ok or bad, which is confusing. I feel like there are better uses for cedar than in my garden, but don't want to have to replace rotted wood in a couple years (like pine). Any thoughts on Douglass Fir, which is available at our local HD? Or the composite decking like Trex?

3) keeping out critters. We have rabbits and squirrels but not sure about voles. That worries me. I've seen recommendations to staple hardware cloth to the bottom of the box, but will that interfere with root systems? Gotta think it would affect root crops if nothing else. Not sure if its worth the effort, but don't know how to deal with digging critters otherwise.

Thanks in advance for any input!!

Comments (8)

  • lo1979
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Oh, one other thing- another reason I was considering the composite decking is because I'm afraid of attracting termites. There is evidence that our house had them at one time.

  • ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado
    10 years ago

    Mark out the area for your beds in the lawn. Take shovel and cut out the perimeter. Then you want to take that layer of sod (or weeds) inside that perimeter and flip it upside down. This works best when done in the fall, but you can do it in the spring. Then take all you compost, lime, leaves and any other soil amendments and put them on top of that upside down turf. Use your garden fork and work all of the material and as far down into the subsoil as you can. I do not turn the soil over unless I'm really mixing in the amendments (which is typical for new beds), I just use the 4-pronged fork like a broad fork. Sink it into the dirt, and lean the handle back to lift and loosen the soil, over and over and over.....

    You can use a rototiller, but, I think you'll find that youll be fighting a lot of weeds that way, particularly if they are a problem right now.

    I don't have a problem with PT wood, but if you do, then the Trex decking would work great, though, it's not cheap. Other then that, I have even used fence slats for raised bed. They don't last very long, but they are very cheap.

    I don't have problems with burrowing critters, just rabbits and squirrels so my garden is all open bottom. I, like you, believe that weed fabric and the like stapled to the bottom is an impediment to the roots. I am also fortunate that voles and moles do not live here. As for the above ground pests, I have a fence with a gate around my garden for rabbits, and it keeps them out fine. I have a bb gun for squirrels (not that it helps, it just makes me feel better).

    This post was edited by ZachS on Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 14:44

  • digdirt2
    10 years ago

    1) it is too late to start a lasagna bed for planting in this spring so digging/tilling is your only option. Then you can lasagne improve it as you go along.

    2) there is no "best material" for building the beds. Rather there are umpteen choices available and they all work fine. The choice is yours depending on the appearance you want and the $$ you want to spend.

    The anti-pressure treated wood crowd is woefully out of date since the dangerous chemical process was outlawed in 2002 and current processes are safe to use. I would certainly pick it over any untreated woods unless you want to spend the money for cedar or redwood which most don't. And the composite wood is also expensive. If money is no object then decorative stone is another option.

    3) fencing is the only effective option for most critters. Whether or not the hardware cloth would interfere would all depend on how deep you make the beds.

    it is currently lawn (well mostly weeds) and clay soil. This winter has been quite wet and the ground very soggy. The yard also slopes downward slightly towards the back, but certainly not steeply. For these reasons, raised beds seem to make sense.

    IMO none of that means you need the added expense and work of making raised beds or their limitations. If you want them, fine. But if not then each of those factors can be easily resolved.

    However, IF that spot is chronically soggy with poor drainage then it will be a problem even for raised beds so it would need to be fixed first.

    Dave

  • nancyjane_gardener
    10 years ago

    I also have soggy clay soil (and then in 2 weeks you can't penetrate it!)
    What I do when starting a new bed is to rock the fork, not neccesary to turn it over, especially if still soggy. Then I work/water in whatever manures or compost I have available (I usually use aged horse manure because that's what's available in my area).
    I then attach the hardware cloth to the wood frame every couple of inches (if you have gophers), add "garden mix" soil. Ours is from the landfill and is certified organic. I actually tamp my soil down the first year to lessen the settling and having to add a bunch more the next year. Plant and enjoy!
    I don't have problems with the roots on anything. My beds are about 8-10" deep and I have tomatoes that get 6-8'tall. I do grow a shorter kind of carrot and don't grow a whole lot of root veges. Beets and radishes at this point.
    After my bed is established, I add my own compost spring and fall for the beds I use for winter. I cover the unused beds with ground leaves and cardboard with holes punched for water to get through, then apply rabbit or goat manure and compost in the spring.
    About every 3 years or so I'll get a truck load (1/2 yd) of the soil from the dump to top things off.
    I've also found a tiny tiller that is great for fluffing the beds once or twice a year. Some don't agree, but I love it!
    Happy gardening! Nancy

  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    10 years ago

    lojeanie

    I am real beginner veggie gardener.
    I did as you mentioned in your original post, #2.
    07/06/2013:
    -since it was late in the season, I used anything to frame couple of beds (couple of 2x10, some blocks & bricks).
    -then 3 layers of cardboard directly over the grass;
    -than thicker layer of shredded+unshreded leaves (from fall 2012-some were shredded with lawnmower & stuffed into black garbage bags with few holes for ventilation)
    -then as much soil as I could find (mix of little compost from my small composter+leftover of triple-mix bought in bulk+some bagged soil)
    -then I planted tomato plants that were growing in pots until then, and few peppers.
    Peppers didn't do very well, but tomatoes did - considering how late & what I planted them in, they did great.
    After tomatoes I planted garlic late in fall, will see what I get this spring.

    So I would call it 'modified lasagna in-a-hurry'.
    It was spur of the moment decision & I didn't have any proper materials (& didn't have access to the property earlier anyway).
    Photo below shows work in progress - you can see cardboard on the bottom.
    There were practically no weeds in the beds. They were approx. 12" deep only (to cardboard -may not need any deeper, depends on what you want to grow).
    No tilling, didn't remove any grass, didn't add any amendments otherwise.
    So maybe lasagna (with you having more time & being better prepared) would still work? This was in zone 5a.

    Rina

    This post was edited by rina_ on Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 22:51

  • lo1979
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks all! We ended up using Douglas fir and are going with a "modified lasagna" approach- we'll see how it goes! The first year will be an experiment. ;)

    One more question- I'm a bit concerned about the sturdiness of the frame- we have two boards end to end on each side. They're connected together but worried that point will bow out once we fill with soil. I heard that there are metal stakes that you can put on the outside of the frame to help reinforce, but don't know exactly what kind of stakes I need and where I can buy them. Any recommendations?

  • Anne Wolfley
    9 years ago

    How are they connected on the ends? Unless they aren't well drilled (or nailed) in, and unless the wood is really thin, you won't have to worry about the wood bowing when you add the soil. Longer term, the boards can bow from getting wet, changes in temperature, etc.

    If it's not too late, I would really recommend trying to incorporate some of the clay into your beds. Clay has a poor structure and is acidic, but it has lots of nutrients and good qualities that are often overlooked. You just need to mix it with soil amendments like compost, be patient, and watch it become awesome over the years. You have to take a long term view with it. (And I am saying this from experience. You could make pottery with what I have in my yard.)

  • nancyjane_gardener
    9 years ago

    Go to the big box store and ask them for some sort of bracket to keep the boxes from bowing or separating.
    Fill with garden mix from the land fill (or wherever you can get it) the worms will bring the clay up into your boxes! Nancy