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lilydude

Just used up the last of my 1977 seeds

lilydude
15 years ago

I just sowed the last few seeds of Lilly's Rhubarb swiss chard, purchased 1977, and kept in the freezer ever since. Yes, they still germinate, but not as good as when they were fresh. The photo of the seed packet should bring back fond memories for you old timers.

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Comments (30)

  • susandonb
    15 years ago

    I am speechless. I was going to ask how often you clean out your freezer but that would sound rude. :)

    You sure are thrifty.

    Susan

  • earthworm73
    15 years ago

    Wow 39 cents for some seeds. Betcha gas prices weren't that cheap in '77.

  • oldpea
    15 years ago

    I'm impressed!!!! Thirty-two year old seed still germinating - a seed savers dream : ) Thanks for sharing.

  • lilydude
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I clean it out about once every two years, but that doesn't mean I throw everything away. I have hundreds of lots of seed in there, all catalogued on my computer. A lot of the seeds I purchase are of rare plants, which are often not available at all. And I also sell seeds of rare plants. So I am not about to let that seed die at room temperature. Almost everything retains its viability perfectly at 0 degrees F. And freezer storage is so easy. With seed so expensive now, why would you just throw it in your closet, where it's going to be dead in a couple of years?

    Some recent results:
    Tomato, Marmande: from 1987; 100% germination
    Tomato, Sungold: from 1993; 100% germination
    Pepper, Pick-a-Peck: from 1976; 100% germination
    Melon, Crenshaw: from 1981; 0% germ
    Melon, Honey Rock: from 1980; 0% germ
    Watermelon, Sugar Baby: from 1987; 0% germ

    So the Tomato/Pepper clan does extremely well, but the melons don't make it in long-term storage. Freezing does keep melon seeds viable for about 15 years, but the storage times that we are talking about above are around 20-28 years, a long, long time.

  • susandonb
    15 years ago

    WOW, I am impressed too. I never knew about freezing, I would have guessed it would kill the seeds. Who knew?

  • glib
    15 years ago

    Does that mean that the armageddon seed bank in a remote Norwegian island (in a subterranean permafrost bunker) has no Sugar Baby? No Crenshaw? Bummer. Life will be tough after WWIII.

    (More likely, they have Sugar Baby, but the many thawings and refreezing eventually ruined the seeds. In Norway, they freeze them once. I have always kept them in the freezer too, with great success, but I do know they thaw many times a year)

  • gardener_sandy
    15 years ago

    Wow! That's impressive. If you don't mind sharing your secrets, what's your technique for freezing them? What kind of container do you store them in?

  • lilydude
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I think those Armageddon seed banks are cryogenic, which is Seriously Cold. So seed metabolism slows to a stop. Also, they don't thaw the seed. My seed gets thawed a couple of times a year.

    When thawing the seed, I keep the seed container sealed shut until it gets to room temperature (about 1 hour), then I open it. That way, moisture does not condense on the seeds.

    If you are collecting your own seed, it's important to thoroughly dry the seed before you freeze it. I place the seed in a bowl and keep it at room temperature for two or three weeks, then place the seed in a labelled packet, and then in an airtight container. I do not use dessicant. I think my results demonstrate that fancy techniques such as dessicant are not necessary.

    My freezer is not a defrosting type. In a self-defrosting freezer, you probably won't get results quite as good.

  • lilydude
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Not all seeds can be frozen. Some seeds die if they dry out, like chestnuts, maples, oaks, etc. Some tropical seeds can't stand to be frozen. Use Google to learn more. If I'm not sure about a certain type of seed, I keep most in the fridge, and place a few in the freezer. Make sure the seeds in the fridge don't freeze! A couple of days later, I take the frozen seeds out of the freezer and sow them, and see what happens. An easy way to test for germination is to place the seeds in a small bottle, and just cover the seed with water, and keep at room temperature. If they are dead, they will usually start rotting in a few days.

  • naturegirl_2007 5B SW Michigan
    15 years ago

    I'm glad you shared this with us. Your freezing test makes alot of sense, too. I think I'll try it. I use the refrigerator for storage alot and have had great success with tomatoes and some other, but I have not tried the freezer...yet. Your results are inspiring.

    I was given alot of assorted veggie seed packets that ranged from 2 to 8 years old recently. They were stored at room temperature in a place that probably went from 50 F to 90+ F over the years. I've been surprised at how well some varieties sprouted when I ran some germination tests last month. Seeds truly are amazing packages of promise.

    Years back I read that you should only take the seeds you need for planting out to the garden. Leave the rest of the packages inside. The writer felt most people set extra seed packets in places by the garden where they would absorb moisture from the humid air or ground and this reduces their viability. I try to follow that advice or at least keep the extras in a tightly sealed tin in a shaded spot.

  • promethean_spark
    15 years ago

    I keep my seed in a rubbermaid container in the fridge with dessicant packets to keep everything dry. So far I still get 100% germination on 3 year old seed. I guess this year when seed saving time comes I aught to get several tubs for the freezer too. One for tomatoes, one for peppers....

  • knittlin
    15 years ago

    Too cool, Lilydude. Too cool. Yep, that seed packet looks very familiar to me, only ours over here in Texas said "Lone Star Seed Company" instead of "Lilly's". I wonder if all the seed companies back then used the same stock drawings? Kind of like how poultry hatcheries still do it today?

  • cassieinmass
    15 years ago

    If it makes you feel better the seed is older than me LOL!!!!!!!!!

  • imstillatwork
    15 years ago

    cassieinmass: haha -that's what I was thinking ('78)

  • lilydude
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I have a strange story to tell. My melon seeds would not germinate in 1/8 inch of water, as stated above, so I thought they were dead. I went ahead and planted them in potting mix anyway, and I got 50% germination. So, first, my melon seeds DID survive 20+ years in the freezer, and second, the germination test in water doesn't work for melon seeds. Don't ask me why. Temperature was 80F in both cases.

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    14 years ago

    Sometimes seeds need more than water to trigger germination. Nitrogen can be very effective for reviving old beans, and in my experience, even good bean seed can germinate poorly without it. Perhaps that is true of cucurbits as well; I have a squash variety that always germinates poorly in soil-less seed starter, I'll have to try it with a little fertilizer this year.

  • promethean_spark
    14 years ago

    >Wow 39 cents for some seeds. Betcha gas prices weren't that cheap in '77.

    From the inflation calculator:
    What cost $.39 in 1977 would cost $1.37 in 2008.

    Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2008 and 1977, they would cost you $.39 and $0.11 respectively.

    Guess the real price of garden seed has been relatively flat then since 1.37 is about average.

  • roper2008
    14 years ago

    I read this post awhile back and was very impressed, I had no idea some
    seeds could last so long if you refrigerated or put them in freezer. I found
    some older seed from 2006 and remembered this post. These seeds were
    not properly stored, but I still had about 60% germination. So now I have
    Machaiw eggplant, a few beefsteak tomatoes and Tasty Jade cucumber.
    These are just extra's for me. .I didn't have room last year for corn called
    Stowells Evergreen. I kept it in the hot garage all summer last year. I
    thought it couldn't be any good, but it couldn't hurt to try. Every single
    one sprouted. Hopefully I will have corn this summer..

  • bobboberan
    14 years ago

    lol you could have got a small fortune for those seeds unopened ...very nice looking package

  • aliceinvirginia
    14 years ago

    I bought some Swallow Eggplant from Fedco late last summer, thinking I would try to grow indoors. I didn't get around to transplanting my seedlings to larger containers, and it was approaching Christmas, so I gave up.

    I was frustrated this spring because none seemed to be sprouting, but maybe they needed more time, or the first batch of seedlings weren't watered right. So I've got 5 seedlings going. And only going to plant one. I'm trying a ton of different eggplant varieties.

    Are there any types of seeds (like warm weather ones) that are inappropriate for storage in the fridge or freezer? Where can I get desiccant packets?

    Alice

  • midnightgardener
    14 years ago

    That's way cool.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Start a growers diary here

  • takadi
    14 years ago

    So it is as simple as popping your seed packets into the freezer/fridge or are there more steps to it like putting it in a plastic bag or using desiccant?

  • lilydude
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Takadi, look at my two posts about halfway down the thread. I tell you all the steps. I don't use dessicant.

  • rj_hythloday
    14 years ago

    This is a good find, I'm using a bottom drawer in the fridge and the wife wants it back. I have a lb of sweet clover/red mammoth clover/and hairy vetch. I guess I need to try the germination test before I freeze the whole bags.

    Why do you thaw your seeds a couple times a year?

  • lilydude
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    rj, if your clover seeds are dry, you can safely freeze them. I've done it. I've never tried vetch, but I would bet it's OK.

    I thaw the seeds so that I can take some out of the packets and grow them. There is no mysterious process going on.

  • takadi
    14 years ago

    lol lily, don't mind us if we treat you like the mystical guru of seed freezing. 30 years is quite an accomplishment though

  • rj_hythloday
    14 years ago

    Thanks Lilydude, have you tried alafalfa?

    Are they stuck together? Is it necessary to thaw the whole packet or bunch of packets to plant a seeds? I'm just wondering about the thawing.

  • pepperdude
    14 years ago

    Since even fresh, lab-tested seed does not germinate at 100% how do you get 100% from 30+ year old seed?? I'm not saying you can't save seed much longer than many people think, but such claims as 100% germ. can be misleading. Of course, with a very small sample size you can get 100% but that doesn't tell the whole story.

    Personally I use a packet of chard in less than 10 years... ;-)

  • lilydude
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Pepperdude, if I plant 5 seeds of something, and 5 plants come up, I call that 100% germination! With pepper and tomato seeds, I get 100% germination most of the time, whether they are fresh or frozen. Note that the melon seeds only gave 50% germination, once I figured out how to test them. However, you make a very important point: the seeds that you take out of the freezer can't be any better than the seeds that you put into the freezer.

    Are you implying that anyone with "dude" in their username can't be trusted?

  • rj_hythloday
    14 years ago

    I froze some alfalfa and hairy vetch and now planted them in cups. I'll freeze the whole lb bags once I get germination. I bagged up the rest of the small packets and freed up a drawer in the fridge.

    I left the Baby Pam Pumpkin in the fridge that I'll be planting later this season.

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