Oh my...I'm in Kerrville not that far from you...I better go check my squash because I too planted squash again this year.

What are SBVs?

SVB..........

I'm not a mind reader... what are SVB'S or SBV's?

Squash Vine Borer. Very nasty. They bore into the vine and go hog wild. The plants don't die persay... they just stop wanting to live.

Most tried and true and proven...? No such thing unfortunately. Many solutions work to varying degrees and a search of all the SVB discussions here will get you 100's of things to try.

For me it's timed planting to avoid their cycle as much as possible and then row covers. 90% effective but you have to hand pollinate.

Dave

Replant and cover newly seeded rows with floating cover. Anything that is going to kill the damn things will poison your veggies. You could try pyrethrum and I've heard good reports of wrapping the stems (from the ground up) in aluminum foil.
Veggie growers around here have rows and rows covered with white - it looks as if soeone had spread out a lot of laundry.
I take the covers off when female flowers are produced - by that time the borers have given up and moved on.

Plant as few plants as you need to limit the amount you need to keep covered. I am down to just 2 bush type squash plants which are in adjacent small raised beds so that I can throw one big cover over their area the whole dang month of July which is when they fly around here. And yes, I must hand-pollinate. An additional ploy I use is to also plant vining type squashes which are resistant to the SVB, like cucuzzi and tromboncino. I have very good results with these.

sorry.. i meant SVB not SBV!!
well.. i actually spent all afternoon on the ground, crawled under the squash plants, lifting every single vine up, and with an exacto knife, pierced every single egg i could find... which were all over the place.. on the vines, the tendrils, flowers, leaves, everywhere. am i the only one crazy enough to do this? actually swatted 2 of the d*amn moths,, which felt really good. and cut into the vines & killed several small worms. then the vines that got butchered got reburied deeper, and i wrapped the bases in foil in hopes the moths would be confused by it.

by tried and true, i mean... obviously there are countless organic farmers who don't get out there and do this with hundreds of plants! so, they use the floating row covers? also, i worked at an organic squash farm last year for a few weeks and never heard the SVB mentioned, and they didn't have covers.... then again, i didn't ask what their secret was.

how on earth were native americans and early settlers able to grow squash? they obviously didn't have row covers or foil... there must be something they knew that we don't....

also... i saw something online about phermone traps... anyone know about these?

thanks as always...

A lot depends on where you live. The SVB probably has many generations per year in your area, but in Wisconsin where I live there is only one. While they might overwinter in the soil, it is unlikely, instead they fly in as adults as the weather warms.

For me this just means that I have to watch for the very first one and then protect my plants for a couple weeks and the threat passes. In your much warmer climate and longer growing season what I do is unlikely to be sufficient.

It just depends on the pest and where you live and what you grow.

It always seems the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but in reality it depends on the type of grass more than anything else.

Squash grows fast. When my first plants start to bloom I'll start a new squash plot from seed. By the time the first plants are dead the second batch is producing. By the time the second batch is dead I'm pretty much tired of eating squash.

This is from Ohio State University...

Squash vine borer can be killed by chemicals but the trick is in the timing of the application. An insecticide is effective when applied at the time that eggs are hatching. A preventive treatment regime is to apply an insecticide when vines begin to run, and re-apply every 7 to 10 days for 3 to 5 weeks. The application should be directed to the base of plants, at crowns and runners.

Chemicals used for borer control in gardens are methoxychlor, rotenone, pyrethrum, malathion, or carbaryl (Sevin), applied as sprays or dusts. Restricted-use insecticides used for borer control by commercial growers include endosulfan (Thiodan) and pyrethroids (Ambush, Asana, Pounce). The biological insecticide B.t., in the forms currently available, is not effective because it cannot be applied to the plant parts that are eaten by the borer.

The 5% Sevin dust works perfect as described above in the posting by Shot.

They must not like the cold cause I have never had a problem with them. Would chickens clean them out without damaging the squash vines? I read awhile back about an organic orchard where they let pigs in to clean up the bugs, worked well for him.
On the other hand I finally cleared out the evergreens that some idiot had planted under my apple trees and there are lots of little cutworms in the soil, I was hand picking them as I worked, so no, you are not the only one who spends too much time trying to protect their plants.

GRANDAD, I'm a big user of sevin, both liquid and dust. Spray my apple tree with the liquid as well as southern peas. Dust works great on potato bugs too.

Shot

With bush summer squash I have tried, a couple of times, to lay aluminum foil down, around the base of the plant, when it's just a few weeks old (before it starts to get real bulky). Now I know this isn't scientific. But so far, whenever I've done this, that particular plant has not succumbed to the squash vine borer.

As was mentioned above, varieties from the c. moschata (like butternut) or c. mixta (Cushaw) generally resist borers pretty well.

Last summer I planted Dolma Kabak, a vining summer squash from Turkey, and a c. pepo, which is generally quite susceptable to borers. Two out of four plants made it through the entire summer, even though borers actually severed their stems at the base. This was because they rooted all along the stems.

George
Tahlequah, OK

The little buggers got some of my plants last year, the first time I've ever had problems. I will be applying insecticides on the base of the vines every week if I start seeing the little buggers.

vtgreenthumb, I don't wait for them to show, because I KNOW that it's 100% certain that they WILL show. I do exactly as the Ohio State posting by Shot states. I put the low-dose (5%) Sevin as a preventative on the base of the plants being careful to NOT dust the flowers. We don't want the Sevin to kill the bees. No need to dust leaves or leaf stems. Also, no need to reapply any more than necessary - the 7 to 10 day interval is about right. I do find the orange colored eggs on the leaf stems but these seem to not cause any damage. Once the stems get about 18-24 inches I usually "punt". At that point the plant is too large to keep up with.

Sometime back I had made a posting on this subject. My thinking, which seems to be confirmed by the Ohio State post, was that the Sevin worked more as a deterrent, preventing the moth from laying an egg on the stem. This made me wonder if any of the organic folks had tried an alternative to the Sevin - baking soda was one thing that came to mind. I had thought of trying this "experiment" but wasn't sure that I wanted to make the potential sacrifice.

rembetika,
I am in a similar situation to you in that I live in warm (read 'HOT') climate with a long season (N. Alabama). The SVB's got almost all my squash last year so I am also looking for a solution. I will prefer to try the organic way first and may resort to more toxic methods if that does not work, but here is my plan for this year.

As justaguy says, we may have more than one generation to deal with, but I have never seen the moths in my area past late May or early June. So my first line of defense will be to plant late. I will not put seeds in the ground until June. My second line of defense (even though you said you don't believe in companion planting) will be to plant radishes around the base of the squash plants in the hope of confusing their sniffers.

I do not know if this will work, but I will write back with results later in the year.

Good luck and wish me the same,

Steve

Healthy soil helps to prevent plants from giving off signals of ill health to insects.

According to agronomist Neal Kinsey, a manganese deficiency in the soil contributes to the uptake of glutathione in plants, which attracts insects.

I add kelp meal to the soil when I plant, and I've never had SVBs. There is manganese in kelp. OTOH, maybe we don't have SVBs here in WA???

Sue

I'm in So California and we dont have them here either.
I just looked up their range, and they are not in the Pacific states. Yet...

I just saw my first SVB moth of the season yesterday. Seems like it's later than usual. I've been able to get a decent harvest of zucchini, which didn't happen last year.

some feedback... wrapping the bases in tin foil did not seem to work. for one thing, the moths were not deterred-- for another, on the vining squash, they lay the eggs not just at the base- but all along the vines from beginning to end.. on the flowers, leaves, tendrils, etc.

the thing is, i don't have any squash yet,, only a few little babies, and already the borers were well on their way to killing them. it would different if we'd at least gotten a few good ones!

so once again today, i put on a long-sleeve shirt in 100o weather, doused myself in skeeter spray from head to toe, and sat/laid on the ground for a couple hours with an exacto knife, lifting up all the vines, looking underneath, inspecting every inch of every plant.. killing the eggs, slitting open the vines and killing every worm i could find. well... at least it good to be in the fresh air.

as for the non-vining squash (patty pan, zucchini & straightneck).. this is the second time i've had to dig them up to inspect them, butcher the vines, and rebury them. they're not looking so hot, but maybe will recover..

so now i'm taking an informal survey at all the local farmers' markets to find out what their secrets are. somebody must know something! or.. there wouldn't be any squash. so i'll report back & let you all know what they say.

OK...hope I'm not to late but, this is easy.

For zukes and summer, which I grow every year, the simple trick is garlic.

You take a clove of plain ol' garlic and break it in half or peel it. Lay it down next to the stem of the squash. You have to do this early in the season when the moths are looking to lay eggs. Depending on where you live, but for me in CT, it's June. By July, they've moved on past that stage. The moths don't care for it and won't lay eggs there. No eggs, no borers. I haven't had that problem in years doing this.

I guess it will work for all squashes but I wouldn't know. I can't see why not though.

And that's yankee gardening passed on to me from an old timer over a beer.

I Love the Garlic idea!! i will try it with my squash this year. So you know, rotoneone is approved for use in organic gardening. I have a bag, for backup, in case. haven't had to use it yet. If your plants and soil are healthy, bugs are less likely to invade. You might also try parasitic nematodes. NOT root knot nematodes, which are very bad for your garden, parasitic nematodes are microscopic life forms which invade bugs and kill them. I have tried them for the first time this year, and so far, so good. I have had a problem with colorado potato beetles in the past, so far this year I have picked a few off my plants, but not as many as I expected, and they seem sickly, not moving as fast as usual. I have also found a few beetle carcasses. Yea!! I found my nematodes at aribco organics online, expensive, but in my opinion, very much worth it!!. Good luck, and happy gardening!!

How do people grow squash with the SVB? Some areas don't get them. In the west where my mother lives they've only had them one year out of 10, and she grows squash every year. In the book "Coming Home to Eat" it talks about how some squash plants in AZ have evolved to encase the SVB in a small area of the squash so it limits the damage to the plant. As for growing squash here in NC, we have two reproductive cycles of the blasted beasts so you pretty much have to row cover, which is also tough because of how hot it gets under even the thinnest covers, plus you have to hand pollinate. Last year the SVB even attacked my butternut squash, which is supposed to be resistant. Got one butternut squash the size of an apple. I'm just covering this year. Be sure and turn over your soil and kill the grubs. I found several huge ones when I was enriching my soil. ugh.

SHOT:

You say that you spray your apples with Sevin. Does that work for you? I'm accustomed to using Sevin with Malathion, but I've run out of the Malathion, and I would avoid buying it if I can help it. Also, doesn't Sevin have the effect of reducing fruit formation when used in the fruiting stage?

Hi rembetika,

From the sounds of your posts, you could be fighting TWO problem bugs - the Squash Vine Borer AND the equally pain-in-the-arse Squash Bug. You mention finding multiple eggs up and down the vine, under leaves, etc. ThatÂs what the Squash Bug does. The SVB only lays one egg at a time, generally at the base of the vine. Unfortunately, itÂs very difficult to get rid of either one. Some feel the Squash Bug is more of a problem than the SVB because of its range, reproduction rate and resistance to controls.

For some additional info on the SVB, you can look under the FAQ section of this Forum here.

For more info on both of these pests, along with control suggestions, Kansas State put together an article thatÂs pretty informative. Note: It is a .pdf file so you'll need Adobe Reader to read it.

I wish I knew the answer to control these guys, but I donÂt. The Garlic approach sounds good to me! I might just give it a try - it sure canÂt hurt.

Ligardner, I don't use it during bloom or shortly afterwards. There are specific instructions and cautions on using sevin on apples. Can cause deformity in some, esp Red Delicious.

Shot

rdback, it's definitely the SBV because i've been catching them in the act. and the eggs are about 1/2 the size of a sesame seed, and flatter & rounder than the ones in your pic- also not laid in clusters.. but every inch or so, along the base and all over the rest of the plant. mostly UNDER the vines and in the cracks on the leaf stems. anyway it seems my diligence has paid off... and i haven't seen the moths around in the past few days so they might be done with their cycle for now (?)
also garlic sounds interesting.... i wonder if it would work better to soak it in water or oil & spray it all over the whole plant (except flowers)?

i heard from someone at the farmer's mkt that they thought people used chewing tobacco, mixed w/ water, & sprayed on plant... but i'll have to verify that. stay tuned...

I use tobacco tea on my plants, kills most of them if I don't for get to spray

I bought a product called Surround (spray-on powder) but have yet to use it.

Wonder if it is would work against SVB? You would have to spray again after a rain though.

Here is description: (Clemson Univ.)

"Kaolin Clay: products act as a barrier that irritates insects and disguises the host plant by coating it with a ghostly white film. Insects are apparently unable to recognize plants treated with kaolin. It is most commonly used against a wide variety of pests on apple and pear trees. Also, kaolin can be used to control Japanese beetles, tarnished plant bugs, thrips, leafhoppers, cucumber beetles and Colorado potato beetles on vegetable crops. Kaolin must be applied as a preventative to be effective and can not control a pest that is already established.

Kaolin clay can be applied up to the day of harvest and is non-toxic. Kaolin is sold as Surround Crop Protectorant."

Here is a link that might be useful: Least toxic- see kaolin clay (Surround)

rembetika

I too live in Austin and have been battling the same critters with limited sucess (FYI my first vegetable garden, planted patty pan and zucinni).

For the past month I go out every three days and pad pick as many eggs as I can. I started using tweezer but found that scotch or masking tape works much better, especially for those hard to reach areas and I tend to knock less of them into the dirt. Are you still seeing a decrease in activity? My SVBs seems alive and well at the moment, picked of Anyone else have luck with moth balls or garlic?

When I notice frass I have been injecting the vines with BT and it does seem to kill them (well no more frass). Although I think all the prodding and poking looking for eggs and performing ejections has taken its toll on the plants.

I built a real half ass row cover out of screen material to cover a few of my small plants but it didn't really help, still found eggs. If row covers are to be effective I think they need to be sealed really tight to keep them out. Next year I'll keep them under wraps until they get big enough to withstand attack for a few week while they produce a few fruit. Is it too hot for row covers in the summer months?

I planned on growing some watermelons and cantaloupes but I read that they go after them too. any one have experience with melons and SVBs? Is it even worth trying or will I go through 40 rolls of tape while watching half ripe watermelons go to rot?

Companion planting (at least with nastrium) didn't work unless work means providing a perch for the SVBs to land and survey for the hardest to reach part of the vine to lay its eggs on.

Sorry for all the negativity, on the brighter side my Toms and green are doing good. Sound bad but kinda nice hearing that someone is going through the same problems. I've been hoping to find a magic cure for the SVBs but have yet to find it. I guess I just wish that the few books I read about organic gardening prior to planting would have highlighted how big of a problems the guys are.

"I bought a product called Surround (spray-on powder) but have yet to use it.

Wonder if it is would work against SVB"

I bought a big bag of Surround and it didn't work. I attribute this in large part to the constant humidity of spring and summer around here. The condensation of dew/humidity on the plants acts much the same as a light rain. The Surround slides right off the stems/leaves every morning.

I did buy some sevin and I have sprayed it at the base of my plants and also on the tomato blooms. The blooms on my tomatoes were being chewed up as fast as they opened...grasshoppers I think...anyway nothing was stopping them so I tried the sevin and now I'm loaded down with blooms and little tomatoes.

I don't need any more lectures on Sevin or pesticide use because this is the fact...several of my neighbors have beautiful gardens and beautiful produce. They use insecticides "as needed" but carefully and while all my stuff is loaded with bugs and keeling over from the attacks or not producing as in tomato blooms....they have fabulous results...so go organic if you want but I am going to do what I have to do to have a decent garden...No one is more careful about what goes on the garden than I am...but after being totally defeated by a totally bug ridden garden last year and the beginning of one this year...I give up...I'm going to fight ...

Last year, every squash vine I had was killed by the borers and they were covered in squash bugs...won't happen again this year...I'm prepared...My plants are healthy and producing squash like crazy...I haven't seen one bug on them...thank you Sevin.

anyone know if the plant can recover if a SVB worm gets into the main stem? My plants are so beautiful right now and I JUST discovered them on at least 2 or 3 plants.

also do they move from plant to plant? or do they just DESTROY what they are hatched on and that is it?

I plan to try netting to control SVB this season and would appreciate recommendations on the best type to look for and a source. I dont look forward to hand pollinating ect but its either that or get my squash at a farmers makt.

Larry

I was just out in my garden, enjoying the sight of my SVB-free squash plants. I live in a place where the falls are mild enough that I can grow summer squash. I planted these right around the middle of September and the first zukes will be ready to pick soon.

Hi,

I used a product called organocide this year (my lowes had it). I had minimal attacks (1 plant out of about 20 different squashes) when sprayed weekly. The product kills eggs which is why i think it worked. Warning is smells bad. Last year I lost everything so I am guessing it worked.

I didn't know we didn't have SVB in the Pacific States yet. I thought that was what cut one of my vines and left a fat grub in the soil. Oh, well, back to the web...

Golfer, I have seen bridal veil netting,sold in fabric departments everywhere, recommended as a lightweight row cover. It's going over my vines next spring.

Johnny_Lee, I think Nasturtiums are best used as trap crops for aphids. SVB deterrents are radishes and mustard. A flowering mustard plant or two is also very attractive to pollinators. Unfortunately, I learned that too late to help with the withering on the vine squash/lack of pollination syndrome this year. My summer squash harvest was scanty.

My (one) Italian zucchini plant grows on a flattened, leathery stem. I thought it was healed-over damage until I read about flat-stemmed SVB-resistant squash.

Those of you saying you don't have to dust/worry about stems and leaves, I sure do wish your SVB lived in my neck of the woods. I have found eggs on all parts of my zucchini and pumpkin plants this past season. I've even found eggs laid on the tops of leaves, so apparently my SVB haven't read the book to stay low and on the main stem.

Row covers helped me get results. I tried hand pollinating but wasn't very good at it. So when out in the garden I'd take the row covers off until I was ready to leave then I'd put the cover back on.

The bees found the flowers amazingly fast but so did the moths. One moth landed on a plant within minutes (under 5) of my removing the cover. But all in all the row covers and my searching for eggs helped me get enough of a yield to be semi satisfied.

Most of us Floridians that have swimming pools also have a giant screen surrounding the pool to keep out the mosquitoes and they work perfectly. If flying moths are the root of the problem for the squash and the flying moths need to be kept out why not build small screened in enclosures for each plant? They could be small enough to be lightweight for easy handling. This might work if I understand the problem correctly:

The moths only attack early in the growing cycle so the enclosures would only need to be large enough for the early stages of growth.

Plants need to be pollinated - can pollen go through the screen?

This might work for the growers who only have a few plants as opposed to acres of them.

I have never grown squash but would be interested if any one thinks this idea stands a chance.

P.S. The screened enclosures would also let sunlight and rain through.

Backstrap,

Depending on where one lives, the moths go way beyond early in the season.

I had moths as early as May all the way through to late August. They might even be around beyond August but by then I was done and so were my plants.

It's not a matter of the pollen being able to get out but a matter of insects managing to get to the flowers to spread the pollen around. Bees/other insects get covered with pollen while visiting the male flowers then when they visit a female flower, the pollen on their bodies gets rubbed off into the female flower fertilizing it.

Your idea of a screen, for the most part serves the same function as a row cover. So far row covers have been the only thing that has allowed me some success against this particular pest. Screen or row cover, one will still either need to hand pollinate or somehow let the good pollinating bugs have access to the flowers. But again, good bug access is also a window of opportunity for the pest.

I am preparing for 2009, and trying to figure out what to do to prevent SVB after a devastating 2007 and 2008. Midway through 2008 I figured out why I was not getting squash.

I have read your comments. And actually the pupae overwinter in your garden, but I want squash every year.

Here is an excellent article from Iowa State University Extension on SVB.

Here is a link that might be useful: Iowa State University Extension SVB article

Try the product- Monterey Garden Spray with Spinosad

Spinosad is the by product of a ground dwelling bacterium- (one that has only been found in nature once to boot)

its like speed for almost all insects. you can actually watch most insects "lock up" from their nervous system being fried.

I to hate these bugs this year im trying a new way I was told to plant Nasturtiums barrier around squash and margolds also petunias & Radishes hope it works heard it worked for friends a mile away .Last year I lost all my squash and cucumbers to these bugs seven dust didnt help at all.
Angie

So you would have to hand pollinate, but a screen house could keep the svb and squash bugs off squashes? While I'm dreaming of a large mosquito-free outside back area?