They are considered organic because they are derived from natural sources (like plants) rather than manufactured. This says nothing about their safety.

A pesticide is a pesticide, it is meant to kill things and some kill more than others.

You did a good thing reading the label and personally I think you are right to be concerned about any pesticide use around kids or pregnant women particularly.

There are fairly non toxic pesticides like neem oil, but against cuke beetles I haven't found anything effective that would be considered low toxicity.

There is always the old "dustbuster trick" - vacuum them up. Works and no hazards. ;) You can also use lightweight insect barrier covers to protect the plants.

That said, I will add that Rotenone-Pyrethrins are less toxic than many of the other more common chems that many use WITHOUT ever reading the label. 2 gold stars for you for doing so.

Dave

Thanks for the replies. Yea, I'm being extra careful now. My wife is expecting our first.

I like the dustbuster idea. I'll have to try that out. I was outside this morning using a jar with some dish soap in it and using the jar and lid to catch them. I got about 10 of them. They die fairly quickly in the soap. I wonder if they're just drowning in it, or if dish soap is poison to them. This is the stink bugs I'm talking about.

Stink bugs will hide so if you put a board down in the area you can find them under it in the morning and kill alot at once.

The bad part about stink bugs in zone 8 is that they over winter in the soil so guess what......row covers may not work very well for an already infested area.

Good luck, we had to ban the planting of Cucurbita for this year in order to get a handle on them at our community garden.

Nick,

That toxicity figure for rotenone is not correct. A 300 mg dose will not kill you. The correct figure is 300 mg per kilogram. So, if your body weight is 79 kg (175 pounds), a lethal dose would be 79 x 300 = 23700 mg (0.84 oz.) That is the LD50 (lethal dose 50), meaning that it would be lethal to 50% of the population. The actual LD50 for humans has a range of 300 to 500 mg per kilogram. The LD50 varies according to species. It is much more toxic to bees and some fish than to humans.

There is a difference of opinion about the safety of rotenone. It is certainly one of the least dangerous insecticides. But is it safe enough? Personally I feel comfortable using it sparingly when a serious infestation of a pest such as Mexican Bean Beetle threatens to wipe out my crop. I have used it for years and so did my father before me. I try to avoid using it when pollinators are active but, of course, there is a limit to how successfully that can be done. Using a good duster allows much less dust to be applied than using a shaker, as well as applying dust to the underside of leaves, which is very important.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Rotenone

Arsenic is organic...doesn't make it peace, love, and happiness, though.

Rotenone is "hippy" because it doesnt linger in the soil (1-3 days), foul the air via application, isn't made of petrochemicals, produce massive waste in it's production...and it's rather safe for humans/pets.

That's what makes it a more 'friendly' pesticide.

You don't get a free ride simply because it isn't made from natural stuff.

...And about those labels. A pesticide label is one of the 'closest to true' labels you'll find on anything you buy because the words on the label is the exact law of how it can/should be used.

There's a popular chemical used around here in sunflower and cotton production. The exact same chemical is in the exact same concentration in different containers from the same company. One is labeled for sunflowers and one is labeled for cotton. Years ago sunflower farmers using the cotton pesticide were sued (by the chem manufacturer, btw) for not using pesticides on their crops as prescribed by label. The chemical company won the case.

You might try side-stepping the pesticide use by planting a more disease-resistant variety.

County Fair cukes are supposedly immune to the bacterial wilt carried by cucumber beetles. I lost an entire crop of Straight & Narrow cukes to bacterial wilt one year--the flowers were COVERED with the little suckers--but the next year I planted County Fairs. The CF flowers were likewise covered, but they never wilted. Best crop of cukes I've ever had, in fact. I theorize that they shrugged the bacterial wilt right off.

Ed

I agree 100% with gratefuled. County Fair is a wonderful variety for giving the 1 fingered salute to cuke beetles. The beetles will find the plants and coat them like any other, but CF won't usually get the wilt others do.

They are great for pickling or fresh eating in my opinion.

It's the only variety I grow any more in cuke beetle country and I don't use pesticides because the CF doesn't need the help in doing it's thing. Just let the beetles try and kill them.

Whoops...said "Straight & Narrow" when I meant "Straight Eight."

Ed

Consider a few chickens for pest control. They can't be allowed in the garden when the plants are small, as they will scratch them up with their big feet. Some people suggest letting them into the garden about a half hour before sunset, then putting them away. I have had very few beetles since I've had The Girls, about four years.

I have mine trained to come to the rattle of chicken scratch in an empty tuna can, while I call, "Here, chickie, chickie, chickie!" This is handy for removing them from an undesirable area, and it is FAR easier and quicker than trying to catch them.

Sue

You people who can have chickens irritate me as city ordinances prohibit me from keeping any. Kind of odd given that local ordinances allow me to have 20,000 doves or pigeons that will crap all over my neighbor's roofs, but hey, I didn't make the stupid laws ;-)

I want some dam chickens already!

Nick if the liquid product is similar to this one below (I prefer rotenone powder) then I'd be more concenred about the so-called "inactive ingredients". I doubt the pests consider them inactive as it smells like the R/P combo is dissolved in gasoline. I've never gotten the concentrate close to a flame but it seems like it would easily ignite. Spraying diluted gasoline (or similar petrochem) might just kill the bugs anyway.

{{gwi:49568}}

While web surfing today I realized I had made a large mistake in my calculations regarding the LD50 (lethal dose 50) of rotenone. I had forgotten to take into consideration that the usual product sold as insecticide is only 1% concentration. My calculations were for 100% pure rotenone. So, instead of the LD50 being 23,700 mg or .836 oz., it is 2,370,000 mg or 83.6 oz.

A person weighing 175 lbs. would have to eat about 5 lbs. of the stuff to have a lethal dose. And that dose would be lethal in only 50% of such cases.

Jim

If you get a breed of chickens that looks like a pigeon -- Like a Bantam Lavender Ameraucana -- then you will probably not have issues with neighbors.

I have a bunch of the Ameraucanas and they are great. Super cute little birds that lay blue eggs. Most personable breed (besides Silkies) I've ever met.

Silkies don't really look like chickens either if you get the "bearded" variety and Silkies are a good choice for chickens in a city because they can only jump about 2 feet high and it's really easy to keep them out of your neighbors' yards.

Thank you jimster for the PAN link. Unfortunately it is a 2001 link.

To determine what effects rotenone has been reported to have on the brain since the PAN review, I did the following Google Scholar searches.

Google Scholar search using the keywords rotenone and brain.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=+rotenone+brain&btnG=&as_sdt=15&as_sdtp=

I then did a more restrictive search using the keywords rotenone and parkinson.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=rotenone+and+parkinson.&btnG=&as_sdt=15&as_sdtp=

Here is a link that might be useful: Google Scholar rotenone and parkinson search

I use a shop vac on cucumber beetles.

I just think it is funny that people assume organic pesticides will somehow know how to kill bad bugs but do no other damage. If you kill the pests you kill the bees as well.

I like the handvac idea to remove cucumber beetles, can you gives me some tips on how to vacuum the insects without damaging the blossoms and foilage on the plants?