I'm going to remove the ties, however, my concern now is that whatever comes off of the ties may have already leached into the soil. Any idea how much soil I would have to replace to make sure there is no danger from what may have already come into the soil?

Thanks!

In the past, the standard recommendation when using treated wood products was for a 4 foot DMZ. But that was for the arsenic that used to be used and I don't know if it needs to be that size for railroad ties.

It basically boils down to your choice.

Dave

Joe

I would put the "danger" of railroad ties item up there with other Chicken-Little schemes the "professionals" concoct to hear themselves speak while getting government money for their "study".

2.) How would I test vegetables for toxins?

Thanks everyone!

You would have to have a professional soil test done and they routinely do not test for any toxins or contaminates. You have to pay extra for it.

2.) How would I test vegetables for toxins?

Again that would be done by a professional lab, one that specializes in that sort of testing.

So consider these points:

1. Do you eat store bought food? If so do you have it tested first? Of course not. Like all of us your wash it well before consuming. Contaminants, if they exist, are on the exterior of the food.

2. Are you aware of the many chemicals that lab testing has already shown are present on many commercially grown foods? Do those test results keep you from eating that store-bought food? Of course not.

3. Why do you assume that your soil didn't already contain other contaminants from long before the railroad ties were installed or that it is already contaminated by the railroad ties? Why assume that any home grown food grown there would be even more contaminated than store bought? Contaminated with what?

4. If we assume for purposes of discussion that your soil already contains some contaminants - most soil does contain some - why do you assume the food would absorb it internally? Plants have a very well developed filtration system that is totally water-dependent. Only water soluble contaminants of very specific particle size could even possibly be absorbed and the odds of that is very slim indeed unless the ground were so toxic that nothing would grow in it in the first place.

With all respect I think you have read one or two questionable sources of info that have scared you into way over-reacting. Perhaps you need to reconsider the whole process of gardening. It is often a dirty, buggy, disease-fighting process and it isn't for everyone.

Dave

Joe

All that said...to me, for your own peace of mind...I would rip out the URT's and replace them with 2 by cedar or redwood. The cost will be replaced by the knowledge that you might be doing the right thing. I would not replace the soil in the whole bed. If you take out the URT's...the soil around the edges will fall away and can be used to build new flower beds.

Those that tell you that "store bought food might have toxins" are in my opinion "stupid people". If store bought food has toxins...and you eat it...you might as well just invite "Death and Disease to Dinner"

If you make a mistake...fix it by doing the right thing.

PS...I am NOT a "tree hugger" or organic crusader!

So sorry to have offended you with my stupidity lonmower. But I have to ask, what planet have you been living on if you are unaware of the issues associated with contaminants in commercially grown and processed food?

And I'm not a tree hugger of organic crusader either.

Dave

http://www.finegardening.com/design/articles/pressure-treated-wood-in- beds.aspx

My point about toxins is...if one goes to the grocery store and thinks that the non organic produce has toxins and buys them when organic produce is available...that is stupid. Many people do not think about toxins in non organic produce. Toxins are NOT an issue with them. Not on their radar.

Bellbound is now aware that her URT's might be a potential health risk. One can not put a price on "peace of mind"...that is why I recommended to pull them out. If I moved to a property that had URT's as the border in raised beds, I would do whatever necessary to grow veges in a new or different environment.

You obviously don't think there are toxic carcinogens leaching from URT's. Fine!

I personally don't know if there are or not. I do know that they have been soaked in toxic substances. Given the choice...I would err on the side of safety. That was my advice to Bellbound. In an era when the cancer rates and general use of herbicides and pesticides and petrol-chemical fertilizers (and URT's) have dramatically increased...seems to make a body wonder about things(?)

Pressure treated wood does not equal RR ties. RR ties are made with creosote, derived from coal tar, dissolved in diesel fuel as a carrier. Creosote contains probably a couple of hundred hydrocarbons and phenols, some of which are known to be carcinogenic.

Having said that, "the dose makes the poison". Used ties will have given up much of what was on/near their surfaces over the years. Factor in the volume of soil, actual plant uptake, and, well, this env. chemist isn't too worried about it.

And yes, there are tiny but measurable and 'acceptable' levels pesticides in food from the grocery store. There are a host of similar, non-zero environmental risk factors.

It was much cheaper and easier to get 8 railroad ties to square out the raised garden bed than it would have been to get lumber, screw it together, treat it with some type of oil, and then have to be careful with any kind of equipment around the garden. I ran into the "URT"'s many times with the lawn mower, tiller, gas trimmer, etc. and it barely left a scratch. The regular lumber would have been mangled.
There may have been leaching of some sort into the soil, but i haven't seen any negative effects. I just know it was cheap and it was easy to set up. I don't think that enough could leach off, travel through the soil a foot or so to the nearest plant, and then get soaked up through the roots and distributed into the fruit. Trace amounts, sure. But after years of rain and sun beating down on them, most of it had probably already leached out.

Put some raised beds for your veggies on the other side of the yard.

In fact, if you like to barter, fill the raised beds with named irises. Irises, even the unknown varieties, make great items for barter.

If they're really old to the point of flaking/dusting then things get a little sketchy if you're around it a lot and breathing it in.

That said, if the wood is in good condition just wash your produce and try to make as little contact with the wood as possible. You don't have to treat it like it's radioactive and hover over it, but try not to get your hands all over it for long periods of time and wash your hands afterwards.

It's not one-time exposure to the dangerous stuff in the wood that's an issue, it's long-term consistent exposure.

As far as things leeching into your produce...no issue. Washing your produce is a good practice, though.