|
| I planted starter plants (tomato, cucumber, and yellow squash) as well as seeds (Kabocha winter squash and carrots) around April 20th. I have no produced one single fruit! I have been watering with soaker hoses and just started with the sprinkler. I usually watered an hour soaker hose a day. But temperatures are reaching mid 90's now. Here are some pictures. Please let me know if you see what the issue is!
I was looking forward to having some veggies at this point:( This is where the garden is placed ( now how soil,plants, and fence)
Summer squash (only two have flowers)
Summer squash stem..is that normal?
Tallest tomato plant ( none have flowers!)
While some tomatoes are still only yay tall...
Cucumbers(some leaves below) are flowering though...is it an infestation?
Kabocha (C Maxima Winter Squash).. still tiny sprouts!!?
Upclose kabocha..each sprout has a few discolored bottom leaves?
|
Follow-Up Postings:
|
- Posted by jamesandfely 6 (My Page) on Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 18:22
| I have those condition on some of my plants . Hope some will give opinion/advise. |
|
| You are from South Texas, and you planted them around April 20, about the same time that I planted those here in the State of Maryland. I used to live in Florida and I planted tomato, and squash, etc in the falls and late winter (January-February). One thing I would suggested is to ask gardeners in your neighborhood about what and when they are planting during the year. |
|
| Depending on your soil, bio-physics works the same every where and yours are pretty normal. How good is your soil and did you give them any starter fertilizer. |
|
- Posted by Greenthumb.5 6a-7b (My Page) on Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 0:43
| Well I can tell you this, your squashes might have a bug infestation and you might have not had enough rain because the amount of water you put into it doesn't matter its the rain. The rain mysteriously makes the plants perk up and grow faster than all the fertilizers and water and work you put into it. |
|
- Posted by Greenthumb.5 6a-7b (My Page) on Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 0:45
| Well I can tell you this, your squashes might have a bug infestation and you might have not had enough rain because the amount of water you put into it doesn't matter its the rain. The rain mysteriously makes the plants perk up and grow faster than all the fertilizers and water and work you put into it. Also there is still the drought in the south. Also the tree might be a problem but mostly not a problem. Every thing looks good though. |
|
| As others have said: what kind of soil do you have in there? It seems almost perfectly level -- did you do any compacting? Is there any drainage out the bottom of your beds? And what direction is that tree from the beds? Unless it is on the north side, you should move your beds out of its shade. I doubt if there is anything specifically wrong with those leaves. Lower leaves normally die off like that -- I found the correct term for that -- senescence. The seed leaves (cotyledons) and in most plants the first half a dozen leaves and any leaves that are constantly shaded. Since the leaf is committing suicide it will often be infested by random funguses, but the rest of the leaves look ok. So -- too much shade. And/or quality of the soil, the way you put it in, or the drainage. |
|
| That is peculiar. I planted at the same time and my tomatoes are 4' tall and fruiting (but not ripe yet) and my summer squash are 3' wide and producing. Of course I'm not in your area but still, there should be a lot more growth for almost 2 months in the ground. Did you dig the soil under the beds before you put the new soil in? I'm wondering if the soil underneath is very hard and the roots can't penetrate. |
|
| Those plants are tiny -- definitely looks like a soil problem. I've seen that happen with bagged "top soil" -- which can turn out to be total junk. Why are you using raised beds? Personally, I don't see the reason for raised beds unless there is a contamination problem or a reason that the earth in your yard won't grow anything. In order to make them work, you need lots and lots of compost, not just bagged "top soil" My suggestion -- either test your actual soil and give it what it needs and do a fall garden. in the earth. Either way I think you're looking at a fall garden. (and as someone above suggested that might be your best time to plant anyway.) I planted some cabbage seeds in some "top soil" back in March. On the other hand, in my actual dirt, my zucchini plants get to be 4 feet tall and 4 feet wide, and produce like gang busters. Cabbage grows heads weighing several pounds. The earth itself is magical. I don't understand the trend toward raised beds, but that's just me. Oh, and one more thing -- sometimes plants from a nursery are root bound, and even after you plant them they don't grow well. Sometimes direct seeding things like zucchini is the best way to go. I hope you find some solutions! |
|
| I agree with Coralb, your main problem appears to be that you are too close to the oak? tree. |
|
| kimmsr- I bought excelent living-organic soil from my local natural health food store. It is John's Ladybug soil as well as compost. I have 2 bags of soil for every bag of compost. I even have one bag of orgnanic worm castings in each 4x10ft bed. This soil was very expensive, so I really am thinking it must be anything but the soil! I water it about 30 min AM and 30 min PM with the soaker hose these days to maintain a moist soil about 1in deep. Underneath the soil is about 3 layers of cardboard I placed on the existing lawn. I have noticed that if i use the soaker hose on high for one hour, there is water that has drained from underneath about 7ft out into the lawn. I wondered if this would be an issue? I do not know the soils pH or the specific nutrients. I do know that it is probably the best soil I could have boughten.This is a link to the info on the soil: http://www.ladybugbrand.com/products/Hill-Country-Garden-Soil.asp The compost: As well as the worm castings: I believe the range is anywhere from 55-95 days. And we are just past 50 days for the Kabocha and Carrots.The yellow squash,cucumbers, and tomatoes are further along because I bought them as small plants. plb_ge- The tree is West. Meaning I get full morning sun and partial sun the rest of the day. I was advised to do this by a local gardener who runs the health food store because she said the hot texas sun burnt her tomatoes,etc. |
|
| Those plants look starved. What I would do is get some good balanced liquid fertilizer that they can take up immediately [ironite comes to mind] and start to feed them regularly - while leaving a couple of plants as a control. See how they respond, relative to the unfed plants. |
|
| Maxlife92, planting tomatoes in south louisiana is not that much different from planting in your area. I sew seeds around the first of February and then try to set the plants around mid to early March. If the plants are set later they can or will have a difficult time with the hot louisiana weather. However there are other vegetables that thrive on the heat - e.g. eggplant, okra, cantelope & watermelon, chinese long beans to mention a few. You may want to give these a try. You may want to locate a south Texas planting guide similar to the guide shown below for south Louisiana. Some of the pictures shown above look to be problems related to a lack of nitrogen. A high organic content in your soil would cause nitrogen to be depeted during decomposition of the organic matter. My comment above on being too close to the tree is not just about the shade. It's also about the root system as well. Specifically, roots reaching into your garden boxes and taking water & nutrients from your vegetables could create problems in years to come, particularly as that tree begins to grow large. Finally, I find that first time garden locations can be very difficult. Sometimes it just takes a couple of years to get the soil you want/need it to be. So don't get too discouraged if this year turns out to be less than expected. Overcoming the challenges from one year to the next can be quite gratifying. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Louisiana Vegetable Planting Guide
|
- Posted by tishtoshnm 6/NM (My Page) on Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 16:32
| I do not think that the tree roots would be a problem this early. It certainly could be in the future but I doubt it would be so this soon. My thoughts are that it is hot. Not only is it hot but the sun is intense in Texas and this really seems to make an impact on growth (I have similar problems here in the mountains of NM). On the soil, you do have good components but it does take time for soil to moderate itself, or achieve harmony, settle down, get a rhythm, whatever. Because of that, I would probably fertilize to help the plants along, keep 'em strong, etc. On the Kabocha, the discolored lower leaves look like the seed leaves. It is normal for them to discolor and die off, your true leaves look good. The only other advice would be to be patient. You may see more activity soon, and also do not give up if this year does not meet your expectations. Each year is different and once the soil has established itself, and you are more in sync with the seasons of your area, you will likely have more to harvest. Good luck! |
|
| If you wanted that tree to give your plants a later in the day break from the sun you are way to close to it for at least two of the beds, at a minimum they should all be where the outmost one is. How far up in sky is the sun down there this time of year? |
|
- Posted by JenniferHyatt none (My Page) on Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 9:43
| For what it's worth: I had a raised garden bed that I planted and I had very little growth. My plants looked sad and I looked for a new solution. I found a fantastic book called Slam Dunk Gardening. Well, that book is for gardening in the heat of Las Vegas, but it might have some things for you. Here is what I changed: I bought fabulous soil directly from the writer of the book. She developed a mix for my area. I put in Netafim to water the plants with. It is an irrigation hose with tiny holes in it that very slowly drips water. (.92 gph). I then covered the soil with silver reflective mulch to keep bugs off the plants, to keep the soil moist so it never dries out during the day, and to increase the amount of sun I get. (I planted my veggies in the sunniest part of my garden that has southern exposure and 10 hours of sun a day...and I am in Las Vegas). I water my plants 8 times a day, 6 minutes each time, 6, 7, 8am...12, 1, 2 pm.....and 6, and 7 pm. (It is very hot and dry where I am). I use the fertilizer mix she suggested with cottonseed meal, bone meal, and kelp meal. A handful of the mixed fertilizer with each plant I stuck in the ground and a handful or so each month. I use Amazing Kelp in a foliar feeding and have fed the plants 3 times now. I didn't see you say anything about feeding your plants...maybe that is what's missing? Since I did all that, my plants have gone insane! I didn't know they could grow like that! I have 14 inch cucumbers, I have melons starting to show on 15 foot vines, I have corn that has produced silk already, I have TONS of tomatoes, I have squash that are growing squashes already and the plants are 3 feet wide. Oh...and I planted all of this in late April. My neighbor didn't do any of what I did and her tomato plants are 6 inches high. Mine are 4 feet high. I am brand new to gardening and I don't have a clue which part of that equation, if any, would help you. I just know that I never knew things could grow like this. Many of the veggies have labels that say they want 6 hours of FULL sun. I know it is hot where you are, but it is hot where I am too and the more sun I get the better the plants are growing. (I do have to choose the right tomato plants for the heat though). Perhaps watering a lot more often will stop the tomatoes in your area from getting all burned and then you too can plant in the sun? I don't think your problem is only lack of sun though because I have an area planted that only gets 4 hours of great sun and the plants there are growing like gangbusters too. So...maybe pick up that book? Slam Dunk Gardening by Leslie Doyle and the companion book...Growing Tomatoes in the terrible dirt and heat of Las Vegas. Unless it wouldn't apply to where you are. The best thing I did was to look online and find someone in my area who grows things very very very well. I figured if I did what she did I would get the results she got...and guess what? I do! Look for people in your area who win veggie contests or who post pics of amazing veggies. If you do what they do, you will get great plants too. Keep in mind I have NO idea what I am talking about when it comes to gardening. I am brand spanking new at this! Good luck!!! |
|
| Itilton- I bought some organic liquid fertilizer (ingredients: Hydrolyzed and Emulsified Fish, Seaweed, Medina Soil Activator, Humic Acid and Molasses) and have sprayed them down twice now in the past couple of days. I read to spray them until the liquid is dripping off the leaves. I am afraid of overfertilizing though from what I haveread, that is easy to do. But its 1/2 a Tablespoon per 32 oz of water, so it is pretty dilluted. What do you reccomend as far as how often? should I do this everyday?more than once a day? maybe until the plants perk up.. grandad-Thank you. How would I go about getting nitrogen into the soil? Egg shells? Any organic ways of doing this? I sure hope the roots are not a problem with the tree because I am not sure I would be able to move the entire garden all by myself..or at all! tishtoshnm-do you think i shoudl just keep waiting then, do the plants have a chance? some people from the texas gardeing forum have toldme to take them all out and start over!:( RpR- I have no idea how far San Antonio is from the sun. But they get all AM sun and partial PM shade. Jennifer-Thank you for your detailed response.That seems like a LOT of work! I thought the key to organic gardening is to kind of let nature takes its place? that seems like a very detailed watering schedule as well. Congratulations on your success though. I dont know if i have the money/time to do all that, but i definately want to put the work in to help my plants.I may check out the book, thanks! The organic forum also mentioned to me that the issue may be the 3 layers of carboard I have beneath the soil (and above the native soil). Some think the cardboard has not decomposed, therefore the roots are not penetrating, causing the plants to not grow. What do yall think? Thanks so much everyone! this sure is a process of elimination.. |
|
| A bunch of factors, no doubt, but for sure wrong timing is the biggest. As mentioned, you set them out way late for your climate. If you are near a large tree then inadequate sun fall is possible, though shade in the late afternoon is helpful during the summer in hot climates. IME, getting the right crops in the ground at roughly the right time is the main thing, or at least it's the one rule that won't tolerate being broken. Soil can be less than ideal, sun fall can be less than ideal, even moisture can be less than ideal if other things are good, but you can't fruit a tomato in december in MA or in august in FL no matter what. |
|
| I think once a week is good for the liquid fertilizer. |
|
- Posted by KentuckyWonderer none (My Page) on Sat, Jun 16, 12 at 8:55
| From what I see, those boxes don't have enough soil in them, you should fill them to within an inch from the top or even level with the top and let it settle down and it'll be an inch, you should also have deeply dug the compacted soil under the boxes as much as possible, can't loosen the soil too deep, nixed the cardboard, amended the soil to provide for good drainage and proper PH, started from seed instead of starter plants except for tomatoes in which I'd recommend starting your own next time, and did I mention PH? You can have the blackest most beautiful looking soil in the world, but if the PH is too high or low, nothing will grow. If the PH happens to be suitable, I'd say the what looks to be 3 or 4 inches of loose soil has been totally leached of nutrients by your over watering. |
|
| pnbrown-I understand what you are saying to some degree, but i wonder because here in Texas everyone says we get "two summer seasons", with two sets of crops, meaning people must be planting their second go around about now. Are you saying one could not plant anything (like tomatoes) right now? KentuckyWonderer- The beds are actually 12in tall and filled with 11in of soil/compost/castings. I now understand the carboard wasn't the proper thing to do, but i can't do anything about that now. Are you saying tomatoes should be started from seed or by starter plants? Where do I buy something to test the PH? |
|
| I think you have a nutritional problem, possibly because there is not enough soil in your soil. I looked up the 'garden soil' you are using, and it is mostly compost, and supposed to be mixed with 20:80 with actual soil. Added to that, is that with the cardboard, your box is only 12 inches deep, root competition for water and nutrients, and maybe even inhibition of growth by something excreted by the oak tree. I have been tinkering with raised beds in a similar climate, and find I need a much heavier ( with clay soil) mix, in a 12 in deep bed, and with about 8 inches of the soils beneath the bed loosened, mixed in somewhat, and the palnts, especially the tomatoes, planted deep. And still my tomatoes struggle of late. Peppers do okay with the competition, and sugar snap peas do great in the winter/spring. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Soil link
|
|
- Posted by KentuckyWonderer 6 (My Page) on Sat, Jun 16, 12 at 12:32
| There's 11 inches of soil there? Well then please forgive my assumption based on a photo. Let's talk about buying tomato plants at the garden center. Buying tomato plants is risky. Any one customer who uses tobacco and then touches the plants can potentially infect every tomato plant they touch with Tobacco Mosaic Virus, a disease that will seriously stunt the growth of the plants. The plants could also have another disease from whatever source, original growth site, the garden center itself, or nearby plants. You also never really know how old those plants are, I mean usually those plants are already completely root bound unless you buy them really early after arrival. Severely root bound starters can also stunt growth and reduce yield. Tomatoes though are plants that don't grow very reliably from seed sown directly in the garden. Tomatoes are very prone to damping off, a condition where the soil crusts and kind of pinches off the young seedling right at soil level killing the seedling. I'm saying it's best to start your own. It actually can be cheaper that way too. A small bag of Miracle Grow seed starting mix will run ya about 4 or 5 bucks. A pack of tomato seeds about a buck and a half. Get ya a few plastic party cups, cottage cheese containers, or any similar size containers, and you can start you own which in my experience have always grown healthier and produced better yields than purchased starters. Start them on a windowsill, or under grow-lights for 2 or 3 weeks, harden them off for a week and stick em in the garden. With Cucumbers and Squash, I'd always recommend sowing directly. They can certainly be started indoors, but you have to be really careful transplanting, cucumber family plants have very sensitive roots. Plus they grow fast and even northern gardeners can grow them to maturity when direct seeding most varieties. About how to test your PH. You can go any of 3 ways. You can send a mixed sample of your soil to a lab, you can buy a fairly cheap soil test kit at any garden center. Usually it'll be 4 little vials and some powder capsules to mix soil, water and the powder that tests your PH and NPK. And lastly you can buy a soil testing meter which usually includes a moisture meter and sometimes even a basic nutrient level meter and light level meter. |
|
| One more thing; water better work as well as rain, since we grow a lot of vegetables here in California and get NO rain, NONE, from about May to Novemebr. |
|
| Okay, so- I had a neighbor gardener who actually built the beds for me come out and take a look. He was a little bit stumped until I told him about the three layers of cardboard. And then he reached down 11in into the soil-pure slop. He said that the plants were trapped and had no oxygen because there was no drainage. Our game plan: Sound good? |
|
- Posted by steven1032 8 (My Page) on Sat, Jun 16, 12 at 22:58
| to much water. the card board is acting as a sponge and watering twice a day is not helping either. to much water equals nutrient defiencey. i would back off on the water and put down a slow release fert with a higher phosphorus content. |
|
| Sounds like a plan, but how about preparing one or two boxes for a fall planting, rather than struggle with all three? Maybe a lasagna style prep until September, then plant what grows there in the fall.. |
|
| Well, your gardening neighbor should know a lot more about your local climate than me, so perhaps timing is not the problem. But there is always the possibility that he isn't giving you the unvarnished truth out of politeness? I hear there is a lot of clay in texas, so if those beds are sitting on hard dry clay that would explain the water-logging, not the cardboard itself. IME cardboard when wet lets moisture through quickly enough. Those plants are now severely stressed and compromised, if it were me I'd leave the beds as they are, quit watering so much and direct seed some kind of appropriate summer cover. Ultimately whatever soil is under the beds will soften and moisten and soil life will get to work. And to be sure the cardboard is not water logging just have somebody take a heavy bar and poke a bunch of holes through the beds. No sweat with that soft soil you have in there. No need to pull the beds apart. |
|
- Posted by steven1032 8 (My Page) on Sun, Jun 17, 12 at 10:15
| i agree with pnbrown |
|
- Posted by steven1032 none (My Page) on Sun, Jun 17, 12 at 11:14
| you can hit all the plants with a seaweed extract, fish emulsion and a iron chelate as a foliar spray once a week and you will not have to move the plants until the soil drys out. when the soil drys out go sparingly on the water. then this fall amend the garden to correct the problem. worked for me. |
|
| Wondering how things are going -- any improvement going on? |
|
| Yes, thank you for asking! Well..improvement? we shall see. Progress? yes! I had all of the cardboard from underneath the soil removed. Leaving it as the native clay-like soil underneath. Which still had some weeds/grass but i am assuming that is okay. I waited about 5 days to let the soil reestablish (and there were two days of rain), and I literally just got done replanting most of the plants. I put a handful of rock phosphate in each hole. I switched up the beds, so that the tomatoes are in the furthest bed with the most sun, as well as a couple of the summer squashes. The middle bed now has 4 of the kabocha plants in it. My cucumbers didn't take on the transplanting very well so i threw those out. I am now just waiting to plant some new seeds that I have started. Bell peppers and some more (saved seeds) kabocha. I am crazy about kabocha so I am okay to donating one and a half beds to them:) after 5 days the kabocha have already sprouted!! I don't know that the original plants will produce, but I have til the end of the month or so to see how they adapt and if they don't...I still have enough time to plant new seeds for the second season of summer. After planting them about an hour ago, I hand watered them with the hose (sprayer attached) a couple of times up and down. Im not real sure how to measure with this method but it will just take trial and error i suppose. I also plan to fertilize them later this week with "hasta gro" organic liquid fertilizer. pics! removing the cardboard.. replanted tomatoes and squash replanted kabocha kabocha sprouts! |
|
| Some people do compost paper and cardboard. Eventually (next year?) it would probably have been ok. I like pnbrown's solution, use a "heavy bar and poke a bunch of holes through the beds". I have clay soil and one small raised bed. Never had much of a problem with it. It's on a slight slope (not level), so maybe that helps with drainage. There is a screen across the bottom to keep out voles and mice, but worms should be able to get through. Other than that, it sits "on the lawn". There is no "seal" to restrict water flow out the bottom. It's one of the few spots where I have green grass because I do water the bed maybe twice a week in this dry weather. |
|
| Awesome that the work is done -- what a job! If you've been saying to yourself "It's got to get easier" I believe you are right. I hope you get some great results now. Wishing you lots of Kabocha :) |
|
| What a trooper! That looks GREAT! |
|
| Awh thanks guys! Sure appreciate the support. |
|
- Posted by nancyjane_gardener USDA 8ish No CA (My Page) on Sat, Jun 23, 12 at 20:55
| Looks like a hell of a lot of work to me! Most veges roots only go down about a foot. I would have done the Pn thing and poked holes for the time being and wait for the worms to do their thing! I have heavy clay, and try to break up the clay as much as possible when I start a new bed. Then add a load of aged horse manure, and any finished compost I have. I then add the box lined with hardware cloth and fill with organic garden mix from the dump. Works for me, but I'm not in your HOT HOT area! Nancy |
|
| Good job Max! Did you just dig down to the the edge of a piece of cardboard and pull it out or uncover the whole thing? |
|
| Oh no, I had to uncover it all. The cardboard was still thick and intact but very drenched(holding all the water!!). And my name is Haley! :) |
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Vegetable Gardening Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.