I agree with Stella, we dont know half of what chemicals are put on our vegetables we purchase from the shops. here in Australia they were using methyl bromide for quarantine purposes and now have banned using it because of the adverse effects on humans. You wouldnt know this unless you read the quarantine manual, that we in Australia have to read to bring in seed from overseas.

Another example is illiterate people running market gardens and spraying the vegetables with high levels of pesticide. They couldnt read the label and quessed! This was the case in Western Australia. How many people had eaten the vegetables?

Living in a first world country I think urine on the compost heap is the least a person could worry about. I wouldnt care about urine in compost going to fertilise the vegetables

When we lived in England, it was illegal to have a flush toilet in a room that you had to traverse another room to get to. So we had what my Dad called a 'honey bucket' in the upstairs bathroom.

Daddy poured the collected urine in a compost pile, and I am sure he used the compost on the garden. I would now, but I was not into such things at that time.

Today, anybody pees in my garden is going to hear it from me! LOL

Janie

I peed all over my onions last night. I just go out on the deck and let it hang.

Be honest, how many guys in here have peed inside the house after a heavy night of drinking........i'm guilty!

Belindach, what did your plants do when you put that compost on them? LOL

Rita

Too bad the YUK factor blinds people to realities.I know people who won't eat veggies grown with compost-"that's disgusting!".
Mrclint,have you ever read Sinclair Lewis or toured a modern food processing plant?You might happily switch to food grown with the wisdom of centuries!
Spankykitty,you'd do well to read over at the Soil,Compost&Mulch forum or read Violet's links.

Franktank gave me a laugh! I usually make it to the bathroom tho~

book of the month: who peed on my onions? by,I.P freely

My family of three saves pee in a bucket daily (and freely); every morning's coffee and tea grounds get added, then the bucket is emptied in various places around the property - mainly the hedge along the road, which we want to grow thicker and higher as a buffer from traffic. We have the lushest wild rose hedge anywhere, as a result. Interestingly, these normally low-growing roses have started sending up more 'standards' as a result of two years of the pee/grounds treatment. Otherwise we add the urine to the compost pile, to the grass in winter where the snow will dilute it before it soaks into the ground, and, diluted, to the soil around non-root vegetables, especially heavy feeders like corn.

I don't use it around salt-sensitive vegetables, just in case.

Salt sensitive vegetables: beans, peas, onions, strawberries, carrots

My sister-in-law was just here and we were talking about this. She's a nurse who works various places in northern Canada - rocky territory where sewage disposal is always problematical. She's all for using urine as a fertilizer - it's sterile after all, she says. She happily shares the pee bucket ran than flush clean drinking water down the toilet.

Knowing how squeamish some people would be, is it right to not tell them urine is involved in growing the food you give them? A good topic for Ethics 101.

Why not around the root vegetables, Paul?

Ah...What about that purified water that folks drink from bottles..source??
One would think that urine, broken down in the soil , would be as organic as it can come, if the provider is not on drugs. I don't use it only because I do not like the smell of it---and that's only a personal choice.

Pat, we share vegetables with friends and family. I want to be able to tell them (the more open-minded ones) that we apply urine only to the soil and not the edible parts of plants.

I ought to have said Ethics 301, or graduate level.

Hey all,
I am actually doing my whole masters thesis project about this subject. The process is called ecological sanitation. It is basically sanitizing organic wastes (namely urine) to be used on plants. So I collected 13 litres of my pee and to properly sanitize it, it must remain in air tight (to reduce nitrogen loss to the air) containers for at least a month at abut 20 degrees C. During this month all bacteria, viruses and protozoa die. Then dilute it with 1 part urine to 9 parts water (10%) and put it around the base of the growing plants (not on the leaves as the salt contained will burn). Also don't add the fertilizer to plants tat are too young, make sure they are at least 3 weeks old and well established. The project was very successful and the plants receieving urine actually did a little better than the chemical based (unsustainable) fertilizer. The plants given urine were 10 times larger than the ones given only water. I have pictures of all my plant if anyone is interested. I grew peas, lettuce, radish and basil. Hope this helps! Urine is a sustainable resource that really should be utilized! Good luck!

What a great thread for a rainy Saturday morning! Too funny!
I'd be interested to see your pics, ryder26.
Sincerely,
Squeamish.

urine is sterile.

i don't see why it grosses people out.

you may as well be grossed out about using guano on your crops...

Just imagine if all urine was collected and used as nitrogen for fertilizer

we would save SO MANY resources that are used to make nitrogenous fertilizers

Can I upload photos on this site somewhere? I can then show the pictures from my project showing the difference urine makes.

you can use photobucket and put the link here or there is a gallery section you can upload to and then tell us here when the picks are uploaded.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: len's garden page

Hey thanks! I figured it out. Sorry for the stupid question. Anyway I uploaded one of my pictures. It is comparing growing lettuce with 10% stored urine and the other is just given water. If you go to the photo galleries section and go to archive (march 24th) you will see it. I can upload more (with the radishes) if you are interested. Enjoy!

Impressive. Have you tried using different concentrations
of urine, and if so, what would be the max. you could use without harming the plants?

Maybe using urine to wet the compost pile would be ok (for me), but directly on the soil itself? I dunno. Still have a hard time when the kids forget to flush!
h.

Great project, Ryder. I've been using urine in compost or as fertilizer for years.

Yes, hooray, imagine. Are you saving your urine?

ryder26,

It would be helpful for everyone if you posted the URL.

;)

I don't save urine on a regular basis as I couldn't use it all but when the growing season is in gear i do.

Ryder, The pictures are certainly impressive. But, I wonder if you had fertilized the smaller plant it wouldn't have looked better too.

The urinalysis lab tells me my pee has a 7.0 PH and is not high in soluble salts. Therefore, urine is like a gardening secret weapon: free, nutritious, and easier than any other amendment.

I save urine for my compost pile, letting it ferment as I fill it up over the span of a few days. It doesn't smell great up close, but it introduces bacteria into the pile -- along with the protein they want. I would pee on my pile, but I keep it covered with a tarp. A tarp is a good idea to keep the neighbors from noticing my eccentric use of urine.

I use fresh urine on growing crops, too. I eyeball a 10:1 ratio of water to pee, and use right away. I try to limit salt in my diet when I think I'll be using fresh urine. I don't add diluted urine to salt-sensitive crops.

As for morality, I garden for one. I wouldn't use urine if I was a market grower, because that would probably be against the law. If I were to share stuff from my garden I wouldn't feel obligated to tell all about certain fertilization methods. After enough research on the topic, I see no worthy evidence that healthy, fresh urine added to food crops will harm the end product. Also, something like this is loaded down with too much false stigma too make the truth too difficult to explain; what one doesn't know will not hurt.

ryder's pic:
{{gwi:84343}}

Hooray, there isn't any reason to waste urine; in cold weather simply add it to compost, hay, sawdust, or even a leaf-pile. It will eventually pay dividends, even if only for the environment in general.

Ya so there's my pic. And yes vikki083 it is true that if I gave the one on the left a chemical fertilizer that it would do as good. I did had a trial using a chemical based fertilizer and it grew almost as well (a few grams less).

I also got the two plants mineralogically analysed and the urine one has more nutrients in it, more iron, phosphorus, etc than the chemical fertilizer ones. But the whole reason I did this project was to show that urine is a sustainable resource that can be used for agriculture.

I would much rather eat food grown with a natural sterile fertilizer such as urine than food grown with chemicals that had been mined, transported all around and then been mixed in a lab. We really have to get over this gross factor.

I guess in developed countries this idea may not fly but I am going to be presenting at a seminar for many Africans and I think they will be very interested. Many don't have access to chemical fertilizers and the soil is bad quality and they are growing plants to sustain themselves, then urine is a great option.

Here in Sweden some farmers collect urine from eco-villages (that had been diverted in a waste separating toilet and stored) and they apply it on their fields to increase yeild.

And jrrrr I have found that storing the urine is better myself because with time the nitrogen is broken down into ammonium which is more easily taken up by the plants. One month storage in air tight bottles is the best method. But if fresh urine is working for you then go for it!

Sorry I missed holly-2006's message. I tried also using urine with 1 part urine to 3 parts water but in all the trials (peas, lettuce and basil) the plants died. The radish didn't die but it was small and looked unhealthy. I was fertilizing the plants almost everytime I watered, so 1:3 is too much.

And pnbrown, no I am not saving my urine now. I don't have a garden, I did this project in a greenhouse because it was too cold in Sweden to grow anything outside. If I had a garden I would forsure be savig my urine! :)

urine should be diluted in a 1:10 mixture of urine:water

1:3 is way too much urine

Since we have already gone way into potentially way into gross and offending...

Ladies, what about your monthly visitor? I assume it's also good fertilizer (as is any blood), but I doubt if it is sterile? No, I am not talking about collecting, but just the urine being contaminated. Would that be a product for the compost pile only?

This thread is going straight down the toilet! LOL

And for those air-tight bottles the ubiquitous 2-liter plastic soda-bottles work very well. For the males, at least. Accuracy, obviously, is important.

This has been the funniest thread I have read in awhile. But it has me thinking. I am not averse to the idea of putting in the compost, since mine is mostly leaves and the nitro would help. My main concern is ODOR. How do you store it for a month? Where? How does a woman pee in a 2 liter bottle? How bad does it reek when you open it? How bad does it make your yard smell? My main problem with it is the potential odor.

I would think that there's no room for error with a 2 liter soda bottle. And odor? Maybe for the 2 seconds before you HAVE to wash your hands!
BAHWOOSH!

Seriously though, I was considering this - to the compost pile...until alabamanicole raised a question that I hadn't considered. And now this is something that I'm sure that I personally would not, could not do, Sam I Am.

Horses poo where they stand, they don't care, and neither do we. Same for cows, goats, chickens, rabbits, etc. I think that humans are a little more shy and private about elimination habits. I for one would like to keep it that way, at least in MY yard. LOL
But, I am all for whatever floats yer boat, you know?
Viva la differance!
h.

No, not odor when you 'go', odor when you open a month-old bottle o'pee, and odor in the garden wherever you use it. If I had to smell it, forget it!

What is the purpose of keeping urine in an airtight container if it's sterile to begin with? I do not understand.
After a month, when opened, it stinks. Period. (sorry alabamanicole!).
Reminds me of those Fall Classes For Men:

Class #1
Is It Possible To Urinate Using The Technique Of Lifting The Seat and Avoiding The Floor, Walls and Nearby Bathtub?
Group Practice...

Class #2
The Toilet Paper Roll....Does It Change Itself?
Round Table Disucssion....

Somebody HAS to kill this thread!
Sincerely,
Squeamish Moron

In truth, there is very little room for error indeed - one has to wake up fast! I did persuade the wife and daughters to use a five-gallon plastic bucket for a fairly short time some years ago. It was great, the compost pile heated up in no time! We kept the bucket covered with the lid. Actually, I think I cut a hole in the lid, for the actual utilization, and had a piece of wood to cover the hole with...... like I said, didn't last long.

Next house isn't going to have flush toilets, that's how I'm going to solve that problem.

Interesting side note. A Filipino friend just told me that in the Phillipines, 'community pee' is collected and left to age, then used as an asthma treatment, clearing the airways by inhaling the (presumably ammonia-like) fumes. So yeah, I guess it must be pretty strong.

Hey peeps,

You guys are hilarious! Well yes I did think about a woman having to pee into a bottle and I thought of a funnel! Haha! But then quickly thought of a better solution. Like I had said before here in Sweden many ecological homes have waste separating toilets. Basically when you go the toilet is separated into 2 parts. The urine goes down a small hole in the front and the poo goes in the back. The urine is diverted into a tank outside the house that can be emptied whenever. Check out this link... http://www.separett.com/

As for smell, yes urine is sterile when it leaves your body (unless you have a urinary tract infection) but after that it quickly grows bacteria (that's why urinals smell so bad!). If you put it in airtight containers it denies the bacteria oxygen and reduces the amount of nitrogen being lost to the air. After a month there will be no smell causing bacteria left in the sample and okay it is true that it doesn't smell like roses but it isn't as offensive as a urinal after a frat party. Many chemical fertilizers have a bad smell too. It is all what we are used to culturally.

I don't admit to adding urine to my compost heap, but I MIGHT have done it.

Ryder26,

Cool site. In all honesty, I could not make it past the first paragraph!

"In addition, you'll be doing your part on lightening the load on our sensitive environment."

Lightening the load?? Was that intentional??
Hahahahaha!

If you guys don't knock it off, I'll be wringing out my Depends over the compost pile!

" If you put it in airtight containers it denies the bacteria oxygen and reduces the amount of nitrogen being lost to the air."

I'm glad you explained that, because I had this horrible vision in my head of the bacteria proliferating in the bottles until I had something like Molotov cocktails just waiting to explode old pee everywhere.

I've been using a little of the fresh stuff on the compost heap, because it's mostly dry leaves, but hadn't thought of storing it up.

Yet another reason to discuss urine and plants...

We live in the country and my two sons and husband would often go off the porch. After a couple of months I noticed that my Azalea (that would not die when we TRIED to kill it) was losing foilage on one side. I don't think they were actually peeing on the plant just near that side of it. Anyway, thanks for proving to my husband why it is ok to pee in the compost pile but not directly on my plants. We have went around and around on this subject for at least a month now.

My thought is if you really want to store urine would the inclusion of a small amount of H202 (Peroxide)be in any way harmful/useful? In the right quantities it would help minimize bacteria but would have broken down before it hits soil/compost and so not damage the micro-organisms in the soil. Also what are the specific compounds in urine that cause the odour (if not bacteria) and is there an inexpensive way to neutralize this without damaging the product? It seems like smell is the biggest issue for people who would otherwise do this...

Doing some reading on all this and Uric Acid and Ammonia are what people say causes the odour. Now my chemistry is rusty and...well I don't know much...but hear me out...if Ammonia is NH3 and peroxide is H2O2 and peroxide kills Anaerobic bacteria by oxygenation with an unstable extra oxygen molecule then wouldn't the extra O bond with the hydrogen in NH3? Wouldn't this result in H2O+N+1 free H? Assuming this doesn't form something nasty that I just don't get it seems like it would release the nitrogen and might help the smell.

My 80+ YO neighbor has been using urine in her compost and as pest control for decades. I've eaten stuff from her garden and will continue to do so. After all bugs and birds poop on plants all the time. Cats and other critters urinate and worse so what's the big deal. And as for the 2 plates set out for guests... why not just cut out the middleman and serve your guests a plate of kitchen waste, lawn clippings and other things going into your compost? Same diff IMHO.

I watched a gardening video a month or two ago (Ed Baker, I think) who advised people to put a used diaper in the bottom of the hole before planting tomato plants (along with several corn cobs, some coffee grounds and a banana peel or two). He said it had the added benefit of the water-retaining material in the diaper creating a secret water reservoir for the tomato plant, but the urine in the diaper being a nutrient source.

I thought that sounded a little wacky. Not because of the urine, but because next year when I'd be digging around in that spot, I'd be unearthing bits of plastic diaper lining.

The human urine advocacy in this topic has been almost cult like, not to mention noticeably hypocritical and virtually uncontested. Urine is basically as salty as seawater, and no one would advocate using seawater in their garden. Animal manures can contain high salt levels as well, and some folks may do well to limit their use of it for that reason. Yet there are large numbers of posts in this forum that knock Miracle Gro because of "all the salt" it supposedly contains.

The reason that most folks would take umbrage to eating foods grown from composted human urine is because it's a waste product that can contain toxins -- that's why we expel it.

A compost bin can be "Super charged" with any number of high nitrogen, low-salt, non-toxic materials. They are almost too numerous to mention, but can be summed up as adding more greens.

These points certainly do run contrary to the "everything must have 101 uses or be reused 101 times" template, but some things really are waste and should be disposed of. Yes your urine is free, but it may very well contain more than just the N you are trying to take advantage of.

Here is a link that might be useful: Urine - Britannica Online

I have to say that I find it completely ironic--and, really, quite entertaining--that some appear to be entirely "grossed out" and against the idea of using diluted urine in their garden, yet are more than happy to apply all sorts of odd chemicals they know nothing about to their food supply!

There actually is an entire subculture of alternative medicine that believes in the power of DRINKING urine as a method of curing all sorts of ailments (and no, I don't subscribe to it!) and--to date--no one has died due to the practice. I personally think it's a rather extreme practice. However, I do know--from an organic chemistry-perspective--that urine can and, in fact, IS a very viable and effective fertilizer--especially for promoting growth in the early spring. It also seems to help facilitate protection against high-heat bolting, although the mechanism by which it does so seems a bit more elusive to me.

Also, being a bit of a devil's advocate here, I challenge those here who feel so strongly against the use of urine to check their beauty products. Many shampoos, conditioners, anti-wrinkle treatments, etc. (especially the more upscale ones) contain urea--the main component of urine (and many organic fertilizers, BTW). It apparently also makes an excellent astrigent (although I can't say I've been brave enough to try it), and apparently its use predates Cleopatra, who I understand (allegedly) was a regular user of it to keep her skin aglow. Such is the legend, anyhow--anyone care to be a guinea pig?