Advice is to start small. If you are new to gardening and start too large there is a HUGE possibility of becoming overwhelmed & throwing in the towel. Visit your local university extension office (via computer if they have an excellent site or in person if not) & grab as much info as you can ... Good luck!

You have 3 categories that have to be kept separate:

1- Fruit Tree.

2- Berries.

3- Garden Veggies.

each one of those categories require different specialties.

You can talk about category #3 on this forum. And visit other forums for #1 and #2.

Thanks guys - I understand I need to start small. Just reading around this forum since I posted this I realize how little I should start with. Vegetables are high maintenance! (as I assumed, but still).

Do y'all suggest out of my garden vegetables list, what I should start with? Are some easier than others for a 'newbie'?

Yes, some are easier than others. Do a test soil. Given the results, pH, texture, organic matter, nutrient levels, and solar exposure, I can make you a list of the 7 or 8 easiest vegetables to grow in the first year. But regardless of all of the above, you need to fence it from the get go. High fence if there are deer, low fence for rabbits, low fence with hot wire for groundhogs.

While it is a good idea to start small, if you have the room, I would recommend planting quite a few of each thing you plant. What I mean is, pick two or possibly three things from your veggie list. Then plan to plant a decent amount of each of those two or three things (assuming you have room). Like a 4x4 foot area of each thing.

My other general advice is get the irrigation in place before you plant anything, unless you will be able to hand-water as needed. Even then, it is better to use drip irrigation as it avoids wetting leaves.

If you want to start from seed directly in your garden, you will need to sow extra seed then thin things out. This is because germination rates are not totally predictable, and some seedlings grow more vigorously than others. You will also need to keep the soil moist continuously (possibly watering very lightly more than once per day) until everything sprouts. If you buy plants from a nursery or market, then you can probably jump right in to normal watering (once every few days or once a week or something like that, depending on where you are, your soil and how much rain you get).

Plant at the right time. Some things on your list need summer warmth, and some can possibly handle a little cold. Probably people who live near you will be able to tell you when to plant what, once you pick what you want to plant..

As far as what to plant, I will just make a random suggestion. Really, from your list, you should probably pick the two or three things you like most, then ask for advice about those two or three things.

If it were me, I think I would plant an early variety of tomato as my (somewhat) early plant. Cherry tomatoes are more forgiving than full-sized varieties, but only grow them if you like them. Then plant corn a little later in the season. And you can maybe plant garlic where the tomatoes were when you rip up the tomatoes. Or put the garlic in a separate plot. The garlic will hang out over winter and then you can harvest it next summer.

If you have gophers in your area, make sure you have a plan to deal with them. Your best bet is to keep them out with wire-lined raised beds. Second best bet is to patrol daily and set cinch-type traps as needed as soon as you see activity. This is another reason to grow extra.

Hope that helps. Good luck and welcome!

--McKenzie

*is there a direct reply button on here that I am missing? I'm not familiar with this style of forum, just the vbulliten ones.

Glib ; I'll actually be moving in the winter so I don't know that info yet. Can I test the soil during that time? (if i dig up some snow) and I have plans for a tall fence because i'd like to have some pygmy goats.

Mckenziek : I think i'm going to buy the plants, and 'cheat' a bit, just to make it a bit easier. Your post was very helpful and informative, thank you!

Get your soil tested as soon as the ground thaws in the spring. Also, I highly recommend contacting the master garderners at your local county extension service. They will best be able to tell you what grows well in your area. And they are very excited to meet new vegetable gardeners and will be happy to help you.

I grew up in northern Illinois (probably a zone similar to yours) and I remember my parents always grew zucchini, tomatoes, corn, green beans, pumpkins and English peas. For whatever that's worth. Here's a link to the University of Illinois extension home vegetable growing site. When you read the section about hybrids, keep in mind that U of I is a big developer of hybrids, so they're not exactly impartial. :-)

-Anne

Congratulations on deciding to plan ahead and be patient, instead of insisting on knowing how to create a garden overnight. This indicates to me that you will do just fine. The primary thing to know about growing food is that whatever you are doing now is for results months away, at a minimum. People who can't reconcile with that fact give up.

You can get good advice here (and lots of misinformation). You can also easily learn everything you need from books and magazine archives.

One thing you may not learn from books is that gardening is actually weeding. If you won't weed (or gather and lay mulch AND weed), from now until forever, then you can't garden.

While fences and irrigation can be sometimes necessary, I have neither except an old farm fence along the back. I have gardened since 1959 here and while raccoons have showed up a few times and I have had a few rabbit nibbles, I have not had to deer fence even though 5 deer live in the 3 woods in the area.

What I am trying to say is...feel your way into the venture and get a good layout for the best soil and drainage from the get go...with expansion possibilities. If I had to have done all the things mentioned before starting, it could have been daunting.

Keep any fruit trees away from the vegetables by a decent distance. Dwarf and semi dwarf size trees are a necessity.

And keep the goats away from the garden and fruit! So you'll need multiple fences - one (or more, if you want to rotate pasture) to keep the goats in, one for the veggie garden to keep animals (wild and domesticated) out, and will also need netting to keep birds, squirrels, etc. out of the berries. Young apple and pear trees will also need some sort of protection around their trunks (or the area) to keep deer from damaging them while they're small - fencing the orchard may be a good idea to keep the deer from eating the fruit too.

Start ASAP with apples, cherries and pears, I'm not sure about cherries and pears but apples take years to bear (7 years for standard, 3-4 I think for dwarf). Not sure how long grapes take but you will need proper support for the vines.

Blueberries will take a couple of years to get established (I planted 6 last year and got a few berries off 2 of them this year), strawberries planted in the spring will bear the 2nd summer (assuming you're planting June-bearing and picking off the flowers the first summer), you may get a few blackberries/raspberries the first year but again planting bare-root canes in the spring, you'll more likely to get a fair number the 2nd year (but prepare for them to SPREAD!) and more in the following years.

Annual high-season (summer) vegetables require a lot of weeding, but perennial fruit will require pruning and perhaps spraying (more so the trees than the berries), the strawberries will also require thinning ("renovation") each summer after harvest. Do your homework and don't underestimate the hours of labor required.

Asparagus is perennial and also takes a couple of years to get established so make sure you put that in a separate area, not the "annual" garden.

You may find that you already have blueberries and blackberries (perhaps even raspberries) growing wild on the property - where is it and how many acres? Is it all cleared?

You can have your soil tested in the winter if it's not frozen and you can dig multiple samples (mixed) from each area you plan on planting different things (1 bag mixed samples from annual veggie garden, another bag of samples from blueberry area, a different bag from strawberry area, another from proposed bramble area(s), another (or 2-3) from orchard, another from vineyard....). Just be sure each sample is dry (can put in 200 degree oven) before submitting, or else you'll have to wait for the lab to dry them before testing. Testing fees vary - and it sounds like you have a lot of samples.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fruit and orchards forum

Yep, multiple fences. Goats are extremely destructive. Coyote-deer fence outside, goat fence inside.

It will help with the planning to test the soil now, or this year anyway, so you can do Fall amending. Then post again.

I thought we weren't going to talk about trees and vines and critters on this forum. But if we are, then I will chime in.

It is an understatement to say that "deer may damage small trees". Deer will kill small trees. So will goats. Goats may kill mature trees by stripping the bark off of them. Little pygmy goats do less damage just because they are so small (they can't reach branches that other goats would devour).

I have three goats. Goats are great, but they do need to be kept under control, and they are harder to fence in than sheep and cattle and horses. You can rotate them around using electric fences, or you can have a permanent pen for them, or a mixture. (pen them in the winter, and move them around spring and summer to help keep weeds and grass under control). The goats will do a great job on pruning vines after harvest if you let them. Or you can prune and drag the cuttings to them. They can eat cuttings from many things, including other trees that are not part of your edible garden.

You want to go one step at a time so you don't lose your mind. Don't get goats, trees, vines, veggies, all in the first year, unless you want to hire an army of assistants and laborers to help with everything (which would be great, if budget allows!)

When you buy your trees make sure you understand what is needed for pollination. Often you need to have two or more varieties to get fruit (trees of the same variety are actually clones of each other, and many trees need pollen from a genetically different tree to produce fruit...). And the two varieties need to produce pollen at the right time. I'm not an expert, and it varies from fruit to fruit.

If you buy from a knowledgeable nursery maybe they can help with that.

I think you are in for a fun and exciting new challenge. No doubt you will make some mistakes and also do a lot things right. Don't let fear of makng mistakes hold you back too much, and don't let mistakes spoil your enjoyment of any successes you have. Best of luck, and try to enjoy it!

If you are going to have an orchard (more than a few trees) and it will require irrigation in your area, think about how you are going to do that. You also need to be able to mow or disc or till lightly around the trees, and some types of irrigation are more conducive to that than others.

--McKenzie

Keep a Journal, this has helped me a lot over the years. Kind of a garden diary.

Research research research! LOL Here and other boards!
Be sure your trees and berries have room to grow, and expand without shading the vege garden.
Find out what critters are in your area! In my case, I have gophers and have to have raised beds lined with hardware cloth. This leads to the next thing...
Plan out your garden! If you have to (or want to ) have raised beds be sure you know how you want it laid out (functional or pretty or both) visit the pottager forum to plan out pretty. Be sure to leave enough room between beds to angle a wheelbarrow (minimum of 2', 3' is better if you have the room!) and be sure you have access for a truck to come in with a fresh load of soil or compost.
Aha! composting!(also visit the composting forum for help with this!) I made the mistake of having mine right next to the house and got rats! Since I've moved it away from the foundation where the mousers and owls can get to them, no problems!
As I said, research research research! Nancy

You guys are great, thank you so much!

Just to answer questions

- By saying 'a large family to use as their main vegetable outlet' I mean extended family. I love giving back.
- Time is not an issue, and I don't imagine space would be either.
- I understand it takes a while to see results, and that's perfectly fine! I'm sure they'll be enough to do around the garden to keep me busy. :)

Probably a stupid question - would y'all suggest I start a compost and that, or just buy the bagged stuff?

Thank you again! I'm so overwhelmed by the great answers. I was partially expecting a bunch of 'you're crazy!' comments!!

Re: compost it depends. I always prefer to do as much composting in place as possible, first mulch, but I get such healthy vegetables by burying kitchen scraps and/or dead plants at the end of season that I do that as well whenever possible (to avoid spreading diseases, I bury all dead plants in a single bed, then plant something that does not get diseases). The fine compost you are referring to, I use it only for direct seeding, most often by simply mixing, say, one tbsp of seeds in one bucket of compost, then I spread it.

Mulch has a lot of advantages. If wood chips, it is free, lasting, and conditions the soil. it encourages slugs and mice, though. slugs are dealt with sluggo, but at my previous garden I would occasionally get mice colonies.

So, lots of way to skin this cat. given soil and local fauna.

Start with the soil tests. The first year you might have to buy compost (make sure it's been tested for herbicide residue) to amend as early in the spring as you can to plant your summer annual garden, and any perennials you want to start the first year. You can start the compost going the first year too, with a large extended family (I have one too) maybe you can get lots of kitchen scraps, leaves, grass (no weed and feed!) etc. to add to it. I assume your family doesn't garden themselves - mine does, so I rarely get anything to compost since they compost their own (I forgot to ask my uncle and cousin for chicken litter this spring when they cleaned out the coops - have to see if they have any in the fall, I'm not sure when they clean). Also look around the area for dairy, beef or horse farms with free manure (esp. with the horses, ask where they got their hay and straw to make sure it's herbicide-free). The goats will be a great source of manure for you. I personally won't use pig manure.

Sounds like you're starting a small farm! Hope the extended family will put in some labor too. Good luck!