And apparently I can't figure out how to post multiple pictures in a post, so here is the pepper. I have more pics of the tomato if needed!

How big is the container for the tomato? I, myself, am against tomatoes in containers but people do it. That thing has NO foliage whatsoever. Possibly something chomping on it like hornworms?

Leaf distortion (particularly with peppers) can be caused by many things. If it isn't herbicide damage, other popular causes may be lack of calcium and aphids. One way of getting some quick calcium into a container is dolomite lime,
but you better check the ph first since lime will raise it.

Google "smokemaster calcium acetate" ... You might want to try his recipe.

The pepper plant doesn't look all that bad except for the distorted leaves. And yes, habs take a while to ripen. But once they start, you'll have them ripening left and right.

One more note-- next time, you may want to go with a good potting MIX(not soil), less peat, and more like 25% perlite.

Or create a bark based mix like the famed 5-1-1 -- google tapla 5-1-1.

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the reply.

The container is maybe 14-16" diameter at the top and close to 20" tall. The thing about the foliage is, there is some there, it just isn't growing worth a darn. There are no signs whatsoever of anything eating it, just that it hasn't grown any. I've added another picture, though I'm not sure it shows much more, just a closer shot of the top. It seems like a very distinct line where it just stopped growing out ,and only up.

I was wondering about the calcium, I will check the ph and follow your advice there. I haven't seen any hints of aphids.

Yeah, we won't be using that potting soil any more. Though, I did read ahead of time that the terms "mix" and "soil" are often used interchangably, and that a mix should have little or no soil in it (which is why I figured the compost/peat/perlite shown above would be okay). I will definitely check out the other mix you mention.

Back to the tomatoes, I was often wondering if it was a calcium issue. The soil we used didn't list anything there, does it seem likely that it may not have had much?

Thanks!!

Kosch

Another note on the calcium front, I saw mentions of "Cal Mag" when I was searching around about that deficiency. I found a local store that sells this, would this be a good supplement to use? It's a liquid form, there were a couple different brands that all seemed to be about the same.

Kosch: yes. Potting "soil" and "mix" are used interchangably -- they are both "SOIL"less media. But I've noticed that the MIXES tend to have a lot more bark product and a lot less peat than SOILS. And most(mixes or soils) are devoid of any calcium. This is one reason why many people add lime to their container mixes. Or add bone meal(slow decomposing) months in advance to planting.

A fast acting water soluble calmag is an option.

I'm not familiar with that variety of tomato. Some varieties are definitely more "leafy" than others.

As far as container size, sounds like a #15, which is what I like for peppers. It just MAY be big enough for SOME varieties of tomatoes, but If I was doing tomatoes in containers, I wouldn't go with anything less than a half barrel to maximize production--- that's why i do all my tomatoes in ground.

If you can wait another day though, let's see what some other members might have to say. More feedback, more options.

Good luck.

Kevin

I think you all are right on on the calcium deficiency on the pepper. The tomato however, is a tough one....I have seen greenhouse grown, potted tomatoes show some severe leaf curl from a build up of salts in the potting media from repeated fertilizer applications (water soluble/synthetic), but yours is even worse than I remember seeing from that. It almost looks viral, or like an extreme nutrient deficiency to me. Either way, its going to be tough to come back from the injury shown, fruit may be distorted as well, not to mention the inability to support the weight of the fruit on such a stretched plant....I would pinch the top first, try to get some branching going, looks leggy, like from a shaded location...

The tomato really gets me. I didn't add any fertilizer besides the osmocote for the first month we had them, and they were looking like that after the initial growth. Even when I added the other fertilizers recently, I actually used about half of what I was supposed to "just in case". I also give them pretty deep watering to ensure the soil is reasonably flushed.

I forgot to mention, they are in a place that gets a full 7+ hours of sun, along with maybe another hour or two of filtered light.

Do you still think I should pinch the top, even though it's getting so much sun? The top part, about 8-10" down is about 3/8-1/2" thick, I didn't think that was really leggy, but then again I haven't seen another tomato that size up close.

I really wouldn't be surprised about the nutrient deficiency, as I can't seem to find any further specs on the soil we used. But the pepper and also some strawberries are in the same soil, though I'm guessing the strawberries don't need near as much in nutrients as tomatoes..?

Anything else I should be doing at this point? We do have a good 20 or so tomatoes forming, and another good set of blossoms. SO FAR they look good, but we'll see. I just hope I can try to help fix anything for future growth/fruiting.

Thanks for the help thus far! At the very least I'm going to get some calcium for the peppers. I'll check back later today to see if there is anything else before I do anything with the tomatoes.

Kosch

Herbicide contamination of the planting medium is the most likely problem. So sad.

Are you pruning the suckers? if so, stop! -- i agree with hokie.... it's going to take some great turnaround to get that plant back to form. Even topping it, I don't know. I see some sun scalded fruit in your future. :(

If I were you, in your zone, I might just go down to the nursery and look for the largest, earliest DTM plants I could find and get them going while i tried to nurse this one back. May be too late for that where you are, though.

Planatus knows a lot more than I do. Lot of that "contaminated" potting soil going around.

Good luck.

Kevin

Yeah I was pruning the suckers, I shall now stop.

So the herbicide contamination, that is happening to the soil before it's packaged?? Would it seem likely I would see anything in the other plants? That's sad if we can't depend on something to be proper.

I may head out and see if we can find something. I know there were quite a few plants on sale that were in 4" pots but a good 14-18" tall and bearing fruit. I'm not sure if that would be better or worse though? For a buck, maybe it's worth a shot though.

I currently have some Kellogg Patio Plus and some Kellogg N'Rich, would either of those be worth using if I got some new plants, or would I be better off mixing my own?

Anything I can try to help prevent sun scalding the fruit? Shade during the hottest parts of the day or anything?

Thanks for all the help. I'll hope for better next year :(

Kosch

Yep.. Something about herbicide residue not breaking down enough in the composting process.

I love Kellogg's stuff, especially N'rich. Not the greatest thing for containers, but if all you're trying to do is a year or 2 with it, should be fine. After that, the particle size gets too small and it compacts too much. Patio plus? Sounds like a potting soil. You might try mixing the 2 and adding quite a bit of some coarse perlite if you want to extend the life of the mix.

Even then, you still have the issue with calcium. Lime or gypsum should help there but if you have some soluble Calmag available, even better.

Go to the container forum and run the scenario pass them(you'll probably have some posters tell you not to use compost, tell them you want to anyhow... if that's really what you want to do). But ask them how much lime or gypsum or calmag you should add to the mix.

Yep... for a buck, it's worth a shot. If it works, then great. if not, you know you can't start maters in July where you are. Early Girls might be worth a shot though.

Shade or shade cloth may help. But your plant is just so sparse. Maybe since you'll leave the suckers alone now and you if can nurse the plant back some, future fruit will be better protected.

Don't get discouraged though. Look at it this way, the hab looks ok and you'll have plenty of hot pods of goodness coming your way. :)

Kevin

This post was edited by woohooman on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 12:44

Thanks for the encouragement Kevin :)

So, on the suckers, should I have been leaving them previously? I had seen a number of places that said they should be pinched.

I got some Cal Mag stuff and fed the tomatoes and peppers.

We headed out and snagged up some more plants. Got a Tigerella, Celebrity, and Early Girl. I may or may not have done something stupid, but since we didn't want to buy even more containers, I put the new plants in the ground. I had an area that I had tilled up back in May and had some compost tilled in. I dug some holes and mixed in some of the N'Rich and also some the the Dr Earth 5-7-3. I watered everything in then planted. Tomorrow I'll give them some Cal Mag.

HOPEFULLY this was a better move than the containers. But, they were on sale for 59 cents each :)

Oh and yeah the Patio Plus is a potting mix/soil/whatever made for containers. It's very... fluffy... and also has bat guano and chicken manure. Other plants that we've put in it are doing very well so far.

Fingers crossed for at least some tomatoes this year!

Thanks again...

Kosch

Image shows a indeterminate tomato plant in a 15 gallon pot. I grow my tomato crop in gardens but I did some full size tomato plants in containers this year just to settle a friendly argument. Soil consists of approximately 70 percent REAL honest-to-goodness dirt dug on site and 30 percent cheap Schultz Potting Soil Plus from the big box store. I also mixed in a bit of peat to keep the soil loose. I never use rocks at bottom of pots - there are discussions about this on GW. Plant is in full sun, sits on a hot concrete slab, and is watered twice a day. It has been fertilized once with cheap generic water soluble blue stuff mixed at half strength. The plant is almost eight feet tall (pot included). Plant has not been pruned, all suckers remain. Based on the amount of blooms and fruit set this container will get top heavy and will tip over eventually so I will top it at some point. It is my observation that a 15 gallon pot is a bit on the small side for indeterminate plants but may be o.k. for determinates. I will go larger for both if I ever do this experiment again.

My point is that IMHO I think you are trying too hard. I never even heard of most of the fertilizers you are using. Your "soil" contains no actual "dirt" - bagged store-bought stuff is mediocre (although I use it) and none of it is actual dirt so it is only useful as an ingredient in the final soil mix. (Bagged "top soil" is often contaminated - I would never use.) Have plants in as much full sun as possible but only if you can maintain soil moisture. If you cannot maintain soil moisture then shade plants during the hottest part of the day. Do not over water but try hard to avoid plant wilting between waterings - IMO plant stress affects fruit quality.

Always have spare plants. I always do this. If any plant shows signs of problems I simply yank it and move on. By mid-season, if all survive then you can keep the best and toss or give away the rest or you can give away the extra bounty during harvest.

Growing stuff is not as hard as most gardening newbies think, they just lack the experience to know how to do things and thus often tinker with their plants to the point of damaging or destroying them. This is understandable but hard to teach people - they have to learn this on their own by educating themselves, doing research, and, ultimately, having successes and failures out in the field.

Good luck. Don't give up, keep at it, but remember that gardening might not be as difficult as you might believe it to be.
-Tom

"Soil consists of approximately 70 percent REAL honest-to-goodness dirt dug on site and 30 percent cheap Schultz Potting Soil Plus from the big box store. I also mixed in a bit of peat to keep the soil loose."

Correction - Schultz stuff is usually peat-heavy. I meant to say that I mixed in vermiculite to keep the soil loose. Sorry for error.

-Tom

Oh, and BTW the spindliness of your tomato plant I cannot answer to, but the leaf curl looks exactly like something that just happened locally here. Couple of weeks ago the little town I live near did weed spraying on the city boulevards using a tanker truck and the drift damaged or killed many folks' tomato plants. Did not affect ornamentals and most other veggies, just tomato plants. Nasty stuff IMO.

Good deal Kosch. You may want to hold off on the calmag for now for those in the ground. Most "dirt" contains enough. Only add it if you see your plants needing it.

Looks like a lot of posters are swaying towards herbicide damage. Good luck with nursing it back to health.

Kevin

Regarding your specific question on suckering, the point of removing suckers on indeterminate tomatoes when you have a lot of tomato plants is to increase productivity per unit area, by forcing plants vertically upward. However, it decreases yields on a per-plant basis even for a healthy plant, not to mention stressed plants. I do not sucker any container-grown tomatoes. More suckers = more tomatoes.

Another reason to sucker is encourage air flow and decrease the risk of fungal infections, but again, this is not necessary when you're dealing with just one plant, or if you don't live in a humid climate.

This post was edited by Slimy_Okra on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 16:16