A lot depends on 'how low?' It's your first garden, but is this the wettest your yard has ever been, or is it wet every year? You are in the same boat as a lot of others this year, and it just might be a bad year. Other than spending thousands on property drainage, a raised bed might help, or else you could grow in containers.

This post was edited by edweather on Fri, Aug 16, 13 at 1:36

We all live, experience and learn. So this being your first year of gardening is like a college course" 101 Gardening"

But for the next year, you can plan on making RAISED BEDS, that as the name suggests, are higher than the ground around them. In my opinion, a 12 inch high will be fine.( 18 -24" is even better but it will take a lot more labor and resources to buil and fill them.)
Then you fill them with a mixture of topsoil, compost, manure, ... so that the soil has a good drainage property. This way , when you get a lot of rain, the soil will not stay soggy.

You can make raised beds with a variety of materials, like, lumber, stone, concrete blocks, bricks ...
You should research and study about it and decide how you want to go about it.

Good Luck !

always wet most of the time but container growing or raised beds would totally stop any money im saving from growing my own food right though? I mean it sounds liek I would need an awful amount of garden soil from the store

How much room do you have? Is this a low spot in your yard, can you move the garden to higher spot and still have enough sun?

You don't have to buy "garden soil" to make a small raised bed, if you don't have good soil in a spot you can dig from (need a new walkway or patio?), you can just start a "lasagne" garden or a hugel (though I haven't tried it myself), start piling up fall leaves, grass clippings, anything organic (not meat or anything with oil, but plain rice, pasta, any kitchen scraps) to compost in place. You don't even need sides to contain it, though it makes it easier, you don't have to turn the compost (though when you pile it up in a bin you do), just let it compost in place all winter. Get leaves and grass clippings (if they don't use herbicides) from the neighbors.

It won't be a big bed unless you can get a lot of material, but at least it's free, and it's a start. Search "lasagne gardening" or "hugel" for details.

Never a good idea to start a garden in a low-lying area regardless of the year's weather. But you can eliminate some of the problem if there is simply no other location to use by creating raised mounds in that garden to plant in.

It won't help this year but next year after tilling the area well, rake up the soil into a series of long raised mounds at least 6-8" tall and 2-3 feet wide, flatten and smooth out the tops of the mounds and plant there.

Alternatively, building a raised bed in the area doesn't mean you have to buy filler soil. Just use your own soil from another location.

Here is a link that might be useful: Raised mound gardening photos

That's about the only way I *can* grow with ledge around here, glad this year with all the rain.

Did it near the house too, got tired of keeping track where the rows had been the year before, walking all over the area and compacting the soil, so this year dug out and mounded the soil into permanent beds. Just have to put down more mulch in the walkways b/c I ran out and crabgrass is growing in my 1 wide aisle (made for wheelbarrow) now.

This was ledge too, DH dug out the hillside and built the stone wall so that he didn't have to mow the slope between the garden and the lawn, and I decided last year it was a good place to plant strawberries so he still has to mow ;-) but at least it's flatter and only 1 pass (or will be after I narrow the strawberry bed and mulch the path between the berries and the garden).

We did set some concrete blocks outside the deer fence and fill in with some extra soil - have herbs planted there.

Works for berries too (more ledge, just to the west of the house garden)

ok heres what i Don't understand what about raised beds even if I raise the garden with the raise bed ideas the ground underneath that soaks all that rain up is going to be soggy stil l right? so if the plant penetrates the ground underneath the raise bed with its roots wont it still be in soggy wet ground a lot?

the ground underneath that soaks all that rain up is going to be soggy stil l right?
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Yes, the ground underneath the bed can/might get soggy but not for ever. Plus not too many veggies will have roots deeper than one foot. Also , there is a significant difference between the whole root system being in the mud and just the tip of them.

ABOUT the cost of soil:
Depending on how many square foot of garden area we are talking about, you can buy the stuff by cubic yard(not by the bag). (for about $30 to $40 per cy). One cy can fill about 45 sqr-ft area. You can also use some of your own native soil.
It comes down to about $1.50 per each square foot of raised bed. This is provided you haul the material your self. Delivery will cost more.

This year I have created about 110 sqr-ft raised beds. So I know stuff first hand.
Keep in mind that this is just one time INVESTMENT, not EXPENSE. You will use it for many many years. Plus you will gain from it by doing it the right way.

Hilling, as suggested, is an option, PROVIDED you have a lot of acreage. Not feasible in the backyard garden.

@ajsmama:nice garden you've got there, it sure looks like a big farm. A lot of potential, but all depend on the time and money at hand.

Thanks ceth_k. Unfortunately a lot of ledge so we're moving soil from some places to make raised beds in others (like that south-facing slope). The north-facing hillside facing it is in wild blackberries (that 1st pic was from last year so they've grown a bit, it was really dry last year but this July was dry too so berries aren't so good). Blue tarp was covering some manure - was thinking of putting a tunnel there since it's one of the few level spots but lots of trees to the west as you see.

Lots of time, not too much money as I got the tunnel hoops for free, got some lumber for $300 and am looking for cheap local source for greenhouse film since shipping is so expensive. I did get some (slightly ripped) Reemay for free this week, used it to cover the outside of the fence where I have pole beans growing, the deer were eating the leaves and I'm just starting to get beans. I get the burlap (sorry for the mess, I had used it to cover mounds but took some off when canes started coming up under it) for free too. Old curtains cover the berries to keep the birds from getting them. The Reemay will also be used next year for that (on strawberries, blueberries and thornless blackberries), on the squash to keep the SB and SVB out, etc.

But it does take a lot of time.

It doesn't HAVE to be expensive to do raised beds.
My first garden was 8x8' (since changed to two 3x8' with a narrow path down the middle)
The wood and horse manure was from freecycle, We did have to pay for the hardware cloth to keep out gophers. The soil was from our county dump, about $15 per yard for organic vege mix, compost is always free cause I make my own. I just found some neighbors who raise rabbits, so another source of yummy stuff! Besides freecycle, many horse farms are willing to give the stuff away! Just be sure to find out if they use herbicides, or buy hay or alfalfa with herbicides in them!
I then added one bed per year at minimal cost, and now have 2 4x8s, 2 3x8s 2 3x6s and 2 3x3s. My latest addition was buying 3 3x8 raised up to waist level containers from the neighbors who were moving (these were NOT cheap!LOL) Unfortunately, they put the wrong soil in and things didn't grow well this year. I'll have to change out the soil for next year.
To start a raised bed, what I do is to break up the soil as much as I can by hand, layer a bunch of Horse manure, so that it gets down into the soil, build the box with the hardware cloth, fill with the soil from the dump, and plant away!
HTH and happy gardening! Nancy

I don't know why "hilling" as you call it would take a lot of acreage. Just b/c my 1st picture showed a 3000sf fenced area with 4 100ft rows (and big aisles) doesn't mean you need that much. The house garden grew each year to now about 20-25ft x 50ft, it was hard work (and time composting, and scrounging topsoil from Freecycle) to build soil on top of the ledge there but a day's work of work to dig it and make mounded beds there instead of rows this year. And the 25-ft long berry rows weren't hard at all - once we had the soil and compost. Those are on the hillside to the north of our garage. We have a very nice berry and veggie garden in less than 3000sf in our back yard even without the back acreage. And all built without sides or hardware cloth (we don't have a gopher problem, just deer and birds and squirrels and bears), the biggest investment is time (DH built the retaining wall to keep the hillside from washing down into the back yard, the house was supposed to go up there where the garden is but they hit ledge and we couldn't afford to blast so we moved the house location). Second biggest investment for the house garden was for the fence posts and bird/deer netting. Third was the berry plants (though the strawberries were from Freecycle, the blueberries, blackberries and raspberries were from Earth Day sale at land trust).

This post was edited by ajsmama on Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 22:05

We have a very nice berry and veggie garden in less than 3000sf in our back yard even without the back acreage.
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3000 sf backard veggies garden ??? That is the size of almost an standard city lot. Besides, hilling a smaller backyard will not be pretty and there will be small ponds here and there. Where do you think all that water will accumulate ? lol

But in th end of the day one would do what is right for him/ her situation. Here we express opinions and give suggestions ONLY.

I've got berries AND veggies in about 30 x 100ft hillside that was all brush and stumps and ledge. As far as "pretty" that is in the eye of the beholder. Of course you can make the garden smaller (veggie garden is only about 1000sf, and started off much smaller but I doubt anyone else would need 20+ tomatoes, 20 squash and I forget this year, maybe 25-30 cukes plus 30 row ft of kale, 20 ft of peppers, etc. that I have there).

And yes, if drainage is poor then you don't want to create more of a problem with raised beds (framed) or mounds. Maybe the OP wants to check out the Square Foot Gardening forum (or the book) - the author makes the case for practically a whole yard full of raised beds, but his are "pretty", uniform, framed and divided. If drainage is that bad, you may ant to dig a swale or a water garden - but check with town for inspections and permits before you go changing drainage so that you don't create a problem for the neighbors.

I want to build a nicer fence (at least on the side facing the house) when we can afford to, but other than the gray conduit holding the deer netting up (seasonal) I think my garden is pretty - esp. the stone walls. Better than the tangled mess of brush and tree stumps that was there (and still some there, gotta grub out the big clump right behind the garden but if I build a privacy fence I won't be able to see it).

But DH is thinking of turning the entire back yard (except for the low spot at the tree line where we do have a swale) into a garden - less to mow!

No contest.
I just made a suggestion, to someone's problem/question.

I am sure there are many alternatives.

Raised beds are all that has saved my garden this year, I can't remember a wetter summer. I would have liked to do the mounds, but we had a new septic system put in and we can't dig in certain areas. No I didn't build them over the drain field but it is pumped across our yard to the drain field
They really do not have to be expensive, and compared to loosing everything I'm glad I've got them.

i think next year i will do a gro bag system with coco coir, i think thats the simplest solution check this out let me know what you all think.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lda0-nzQxY4
he has a video series on looks pretty neat, do you all think this would work in ohio if I started the plants early indoors?

i am also looking into hugelkultur

I definitely agree with the various suggestions that have been made about using raised beds. These work just fine without wooden sides, so it isn't expensive at all. The website mentioned below has some great photos of how to make them, as well as a lot of other good information. Click on "Techniques" and then on the first option that describes the Biodynamic French Intensive method of Alan Chadwick. Alan was the first to introduce the use of raised beds in the USA, through his demonstration organic garden at the University of California in 1967.

Here is a link that might be useful: Alan Chadwick

Raised beds are free. There is a lot of dirt around, and with some leg work, one can get free organic matter. Free leaves from neighbors, free wood chips from tree companies, free manure on craigslist. The soil does NOT come from a store. Hugelkultur will work too, if you have access to a lot of rotten logs. And lining the beds can be cheap too. I do not totally agree that a low spot is bad. It certainly cuts down on watering, and the greens love it. Then again I grow far fewer fruiting vegetables than most.

Do you have bad drainage, or do you just have horrible clay soil? If you dig a hole in your yard, does it fill with water? If so, then you have a high water table.

If you have a very high water table, you may be able to fix it with a drain system. You will need a lower area to drain the water to. You will have to make sure that you follow local rules and regulations. It's always best to have a local expert evaluate your site and plan drainage if necessary. Unfortunately, drainage systems are not something you can dig yourself, unless you are incredibly tough. And they cost money for trencher, pipe and stone, in addition to labor. Whenever you dig, you need to make sure that you don't hit buried utilities.

Could it be that your downspouts are causing the water problem? Maybe you could divert the water to another area.

Even if you fix the drainage, you may also have heavy clay soil. We need more information.

top answer your question it is clay soil and if i dig a hole in the yard wont be long I will have a miniature pond lol

i really dont know if a raised bed will help me i mean after a rain i can walk through my yard and my feet will splat splish splat and my shoes will be soaked next time it rains i will record a mini video and show you all its horrid.I really need something though cause I see the benefits of having a garden even though it killed this one garden i did get some tomatoes thta helped greatly.I appreciate all your suggestions please keep them coming.

and I do not havethe cash for an drainage system I live clsoe to the river we never flood though but all the land sits extremely low.comibined with the clay not a lot of clay but enough to hold way to much water it just is a swamp it even kills some grass

guys would something liek this work?
http://www.lowes.com/cd_Solve+Simple+Lawn+Drainage+Problems_811777578_
or would i Have to use more then one?

well i think im going to put in 2 basins and run pipe and send it to a drainage ditch in front of the house and see if that improves drainage

basically a french drain i am thinking its called got a couple buddys to help me dig out out etc, do you guys think this should work? I need to know going to go buy the stuff at lowes here in the next week, Just want to get your alls opinion before pulling the trigger, Also i will make sure to keep you all updated

If it is designed and installed properly, that system should get rid of a lot of ground water. But you must get the slopes right. Do you know how to do that? You will still have heavy, wet soil with this system, but at least it will not be saturated with water. There is no way to know how many of these you need. You will have to experiment. You can build raised beds all along the first trench, and see how it works.

This is how I build raised beds: First, I till the soil as deep as I can. Do not till when the soil is muddy. Then I add at least 1 inch of sand, and some compost. Then I till again to mix everything together. Then I rake the soil into raised beds about 3 feet wide, with narrow paths in between. You can easily end up with good topsoil almost a foot deep using this method. Sand is necessary to turn clay loam soil into loam or sandy loam soil. Sandy loam is ideal, since it dries out and warms up faster in Spring, and provides good aeration to the roots. Google "soil triangle".

Make sure you get the necessary permissions before proceeding.

According to Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., at Washington State University, adding sand to clay soil to improve it's texture is a myth. Adding some sand is actually harmful unless you can get to at least 50% sand by total volume.

"When one mixes a sandy and a clay soil together, the large pore spaces of the sandy soil are filled with the smaller clay particles. This results in a heavier, denser soil with less total pore space than either the sandy or the clay soil alone."

To improve the texture of any soil add organic amendments.

I don't have clay, but agree that organic matter is what's important, don't know if sand will help or hurt. You might also want to buy some sandy loam (by the yard, not the bag) to get started if all you have is clay, but then you can keep adding organics, either composted in place or in a bin. Mix in some of your clay from your trenches, but I wouldn't dig under the beds b/c it will become like a bathtub under there. Best to go ask over on the Soil and Compost forum.

But I don't see that you need the basins unless there are only a couple of spots that are squishy. You'd be better off trenching and putting gravel in the trenches, then either leaving them open or putting in perforated pipe wrapped in landscape fabric (so any soil doesn't clog them, I'd think that putting them on a bed of gravel and backfilling with gravel would be VERY important in clay). Get the slope right and get permits, you can't just drain it to neighbor's property or the river.

So combo of raised beds maybe with trenching around them so you're not squishing in the aisles sounds best. But is your whole property like this? Every year or just this year? Sounds like you have a major problem if this is after every rain. How long does it take your lawn to dry out? We have had major rain this June (and one 5" day a couple of weeks ago) when our entire back yard has been squishy but a couple of days later it's OK (sandy loam and French drains around the foundation). How's your basement?

Potterhead2, why don't you try it yourself and see what happens? Try it in a small area with a couple of bags of coarse sand from Home Depot.

I've been adding sand for 40+ years, and getting fantastic results. Google "soil triangle". If you add sand to clay loam, you get loam. If you add sand to loam, you get sandy loam. Remember that there is already some sand in clay loam soil, so you don't have to add as much as you think. There is nothing mysterious about this. Mother Nature has been doing it since the Earth was formed.

Ajsmama, compost is fine, but it lasts about two years, then you need more. How strong is your back? Sand works immediately, and is permanent.

It's very easy to find places out in the woods that have been covered with organic matter since the last Ice Age. That was what, like 12,000 years ago, right? When you dig down, you find impenetrable clay. Using compost only to amend soil is a myth.

How do you think they make commercial topsoil mix? The stuff you buy for a fortune? They add sand and compost to clay loam soil. Why not cut out the middle man and just add sand yourself ?

If you guys could see my garden soil, you wouldn't have any doubts about this. I can grow nearly anything in this soil. And it used to be a nearly unworkable clay loam.

Yes, you have to keep adding organic matter/compost - every year, not every 2 years. But it supplies nutrients as well as adding tilth to the soil. Sand just drains - I can't speak to the Linda Chalker-Scott quote, since I don't have clay soil but I can tell you that my sandy loam or loamy sand doesn't grow anything well but weeds. The composted manure, kitchen scraps, leaves, chipped brush etc. I have used to amend it has given really good results, improving the soil structure and inviting worms and microherd in as well as providing nutrients to the plants. Plus it's free, sand isn't.

This thread is about fixing drainage in heavy, wet soil.

We addressed that too - sounds like drainage trenches/pipe are in order, and raised beds would help. Up to the OP as to what he wants to put in the raised beds, sounds like the soil he is digging out of the trenches won't be good enough, he'll have to add something to it. IMHO, organic matter and maybe some bought topsoil, in yours, sand, but it's his decision. I hope we could help, he's got a lot of decisions to make and a lot of work to do to fix the situation.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, I didn't completely read all the post.

My yard was always wet and there was nowhere to drain it to, new construction all around me has built up their yards running everything to mine. I planted a series of willow trees specifically placed in the lowest areas.
It completely solved the issue. Before I would have standing water for 2-3 weeks after a good rain, and the soil would remain wet for most of the summer. Now it's gone within a day or so.
Not to mention, the weeping willow was growing about 10 to 15 feet per year, and the corkscrew willows that line the south property line now tower over the box elders, so I can finally cut down those overgrown weeds.