It has been raining in Michigan for 24 hrs now, 1.4 inches have fallen with a bit more to come. This rain is coming your way but it may exhaust itself before getting to Cape Cod.

The Fall was mildly dry, yes, but nothing to write home about. It was warmer for longer than ever before though, with 70+ the norm for the first 20 days of October and the whole September. I played soccer in the skins team 12 days ago.

Wow.

Yes, I'm afraid the significant moisture it will not reach us. The storm is here, but only the merest wetting so far.

I looked on the soil moisture map, looks like (if I'm reading that correctly) just the little bits of the NE that stick out into the ocean are dry, but then again it also looks like a bad job of coloring... I can't interact with it like it says, I don't think the site is ipad-friendly. Here's the link, though.

Here is a link that might be useful: Soil moisture Map

pnbrown .... why don,t you water ?
I don't thing water in cool weather will cause any problem especially with sandy soil. As a gardener, You cannot always depend on rain. I have watered my onions a garlics once. But now we have too much rain. During growing season, I monitor rain fall by a simple rain gauge. Anything less than half an inch in 7 days is like NO RAIN to me and I water regularly. I have also learned from an older gardener some time ago that YOU HAVE TO WATER AFTER TRANSPLANTING and SOWING. Forget about the forecast.

The drought map says the same thing. Most of the east is drought-free except for a few coastal areas, including Mass.

Here is a link that might be useful: US drought map

Seysonn, I do dryland farming on a large plot with no water other than a 55-gal rain barrel that fills from a shed. This is a many-years long experiment into appropriate crops and techniques that would provide sustenance in the case of long-term loss of power and provisions from the mainland.

About 98% of our ground here is sandy gravel.

It's pouring here in eastern NY so you will have your rain this weekend. I've had to water twice in the last few weeks. Today's rain is a pleasure to watch.

2 inches here yesterday.

The thing about watering is that if you depend on a well, it may not be able to produce what you need in a prolonged drought.

Still next to nothing.

Yes, ltilton, I agree, the world cannot feed itself via artificial irrigation.

which dryland grains do you use, Pat?

the world cannot feed itself via artificial irrigation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree in part. Then if you eliminate irrigation a lot of people will die of hunger in Africa and else where. Israel does everything with irrigation and exports a lot of flowers and agro products.

Irrigation systems is the product of human genius mind.
Dependence on the generosity of the dumb nature can lead to more hunger. JMO.

Glib,

Mostly I have been doing maize, southern dents for milling. They do quite well (though I'm not fully sure that some flints will not also do as well), and of course corn is so well suited to super-low tech. I've grown wheat and rye to a dry crop many times but always founder on the harvesting. I suppose with enough time and people to do the work the small grains are plausible, and certainly they have the advantage of using winter moisture. In a very dry late spring/early summer that might ruin a corn crop one might still get wheat, for instance.

Seyson, I agree that we must use our genius. Sure, drip irrigation and fertigation systems are clever and effective, but pumping fossil water is not smart, IMO. Should we keep building population with these non-sustainable methods?

pnbrown ... I agree. Water is one of our vital resources and should be used wisely. So gathering run off water for efficient irrigation is one way to prevent depletion of our underground waters. Same way, trying to find alternative energy sources instead of burning fissile fuels. Human genius can do it.

The standard dry land crops are barley and wheat (winter grasses originally from the Fertile Crescent) and millet (from all over the Mideast but also from Africa). Millet is C4 and very fast at going to seed. But I appreciate the pain of harvesting such small stuff.

I am asking because I have had some brushes with ancient grains in the last year. First there was a woman who was having all sorts of problems from eating wheat products, which disappeared when she started buying old wheat (pre-Borlaug) from the Amish. then there was a thread here showing increasing digestive inflammation in pigs, from GMO feed. And finally, when in Southern Italy in the interior valleys there were grains which had been cultivated since the beginning of time (not available anywhere else).

As you know I don't eat grains, except for modest amts of corn and rice occasionally. On the other hand, I was born and raised on Borlaug hybrids, like everyone else in this forum. These do away with thousands of years of grain selection. Presumably, selection was along these lines

1) nutrient content (all grains have similar calories, but big differences in vitamins, minerals and proteins)
2) general hardiness (drought and cold resistance, poor soil cropping)
3) low toxicity

It is hard to beat wheat for 1) and 2), and that is why it was the king of grains for most of human civilization. But it is also the most toxic of grains, and surely strains were selected that people would tolerate better. Borlaug and Co. went only for yield and something important may have been lost. The same probably applies for corn or soy.

It is not such a small point, when you consider calories per square foot grains are unsurpassed by any other crop, so the world's future is still dependent on grains (and insects as meat). At the same time, the diseases of civilization are so rampant resurrecting (and re-developing) ancient grains may be important. All of this discussion is pre-GMO of course, it is about a concept of agriculture where figures of merit other than profit are considered, so I have an appreciation for what you are trying to do.

Thanks Glib, and for reminding me about millet, which I have thought about a lot for Florida but not for here in MA - which doesn't make much sense, in fact. In both places I have droughty ground with insufficient fertility for the most part.

For any kind of commercial operation, no matter how tiny, harvesting is the problem for small grains. If we were looking at the possibility of immediate starvation, suddenly the motivation to cut, thresh and winnow with hand tools would exist; otherwise one quickly begins to wonder why one is doing something doltish and arduous all by one's lonesome while other people are at the beach...

There are some tiny combine harvesters made, all by Chinese or Indian outfits, as far as I can determine. One maker is now selling from southern NH so I may go check it out. The quality is almost assuredly crap.

Regarding the issue of older vs newer wheats, I think this is the primary reason to grow our own wheat. The last few years when I have bought a sack of hard red wheat from the heartlands, the stuff has been truly inedible, like dust from the ground. I thought I was losing my mind, but recently I got some fresh (as in, this past season) red fife wheat and it is clear to me now that there is wheat worth eating after all.

When you go to the base of the food chain like this, it is very clear what is going on. The mainstream supply is based on junk, and it gets increasingly adulterated and worthless as you eat your way toward the middle of the grocery store (or Whole Foods).

Millet will definitely make it in Massacchusetts. It is C4, and will set seeds in two months. Very light grain on your metabolism, too.

I am impressed that you can tell the difference between good and bad wheat. All these years, buying from the bins of various health food stores, I could not tell the difference. Perhaps it was all bad and I had no real comparison. Concur that today's food supply is far from optimal. Our parents ate better than we eat for sure, at least when they were young...

Ok good, do you grow a particular cultivar there, or do you just grow out food-grade stock?

I do not know any cultivars. Millet is part of the Middle Eastern tradition, while my tradition is very western. One could reasonably assume millet has not been touched by the so-called "green revolution", being a minor crop...

I agree, that's a reasonable assumption.

How do you process, use grains like wheat ? Do you mill them and produce fine flour ?

There are many ways to use whole grains. With wheat I often soak and sprout it and then mash it in a very inexpensive machine made in Colombia for making masa (mashed treated and cooked corn) and roll out the mash to make flatbread. Wheat is also quite good cooked whole like rice, especially the softer low-protein types.

Making really fine, typical, flour requires rather a large investment in machinery. Even my Diamant mill which now costs over $1500 does not make great flour. Good traditional flour requires grain of a certain dryness and stone milling.

It makes you admire the makers of millstones backwhen. That was complex tech, done to fine tolerance.

Soak and sprout is one of two classical ways to reduce (or eliminate) grain toxic substances. To this day I will eat chickpeas only if they have a well developed sprout. The vitamin B content is optimal at that stage, mineral availability has improved, and it would get better with further sprouting, but then you lose calories as carbohydrates are turned into fiber. The other is long natural fermentation, for bread. The gluten disappears after two days, but even one day at 70F and it is significantly reduced. I only eat the flatbread my wife makes, one day fermented. I guess I will try to get fife wheat (which is really Russian wheat) from now on, and see how it goes. I note that I always considered millet to be the lightest of all grains (on my system), perhaps I was just comparing an undeveloped grain with developed ones.

I believe there are at least a few outfits in upstate NY growing some traditional cultivars in some quantity, and selling direct. There is also anson mills based in SC, where I got mine.

Hopefully some improvements in my hand-harvesting will allow me to be self-sufficient in wheat next year. If this fall's extreme dryness didn't ruin the crop.

And here I thought that wheat was wheat. I knew that there were hard and soft wheats but other than that I was oblivious. Very informative discussion.

This thread has me thinking. Has rye undergone the same type of developement that wheat has? I was thinking about planting a very small (as in maybe a couple dozen square feet) plot of rye sometime in the future to gain a better appreciation/understanding of what it's like to grow grain. And I was wondering if I should try to search out older varieties. Or has rye been left alone for the most part?

Rodney

I assume it is a minor crop. Rice, wheat, corn, and soy is where the action is for Monsanto.

pnbrown ... I have a good recipe for you(I think):'

Sprout the wheat( as you do for other uses),

Them smash it (or blend it). Press it throu cheese cloth.
Boil the juice in low heat and start adding flour to it. Constantly stirring. Until it becomes like a very thick gravy. It will be a sweet treat without any sugar. Can keep it refretated for weeks. Cooled one will hav a texture like peanut butter.

This is made 100% from wheat, nothing else.

Check this video.

Here is a link that might be useful: wheat treat

and the other giant ag-gloms, Glib. Monsanto seems to provide a lot of PR-cover for Syngenta, et al. Accident?

That's interesting Seyson, though a little too involved for my style...

Glad I found this thread, hiding (ahem) in a post about rain.
I've just recently become enthralled with the idea of growing corn for grain. I"d want it for polenta mostly.

Is there a specific grain miller anyone can recommend? Researching them was overwhelming.