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jagdjh

Too many leaves

jagdjh
9 years ago

I have been gardening for a few years but just started seriously working on my soil. My bright idea this year was to have the city drop off a truckload of leaves they collected. It ended up being quite a lot of leaves. I bagged some of the leaves (35 bags!), and spread the rest in my garden. I would say the leaves are about a foot deep, and on pretty thick as they were shredded. My question is, is this too many leaves? Will it hurt or benefit my garden? Here is a video of me getting the leaves and putting them down if you are interested. Thanks for helping a noobie! (Yes, the deer at the beginning of the video may be a problem). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTVJOYP-qLQ

Comments (51)

  • jctsai8b
    9 years ago

    I will dig the ground and bury half the leaves with soil, it will compost faster.

    This post was edited by JCTsai on Sun, Nov 30, 14 at 20:36

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the replies! I'm not sure if I will be able to till it in. If I leave it as is, I guess I'm worried it will rob the soil of nitrogen. If it is just a layer of leaves, I'm ok with it since it can just be a mulch, right?

  • theforgottenone1013 (SE MI zone 5b/6a)
    9 years ago

    I too would till in at least some of the leaves. But I'd also leave some as a mulch. If you're worried about the leaves "robbing" the soil of nitrogen you can also mix some grass clippings (if available), composted manure (if available), a light sprinkling of bloodmeal, or some other soil amendment or fertilizer that's higher in nitrogen.

    Rodney

  • ltilton
    9 years ago

    I always lay down some nitrogen lawn fertilizer when I till in my leaves. I think it helps in the decomposition and replaces the nitrogen lost in the process.

  • glib
    9 years ago

    If you plant from seedlings, you do not have to do anything. The leaves will compost, they will not rob nitrogen, and they will suppress weeds until they are gone. You just have to be sure that they are fairly matted, and leaves will not blow in the wind and smother your smaller seedlings.

    If you plant from seed, you either till them, or skip next year. I always get to spring with half my beds covered in leaves. It keeps the soil colder longer, so the season is a week shorter, but it saves so much weeding.

  • ltilton
    9 years ago

    Not a lot of decomposition takes place over a winter. When I harvest my first spring crops, I pull them out with discernable fragments of leaves still clinging to their roots. By midsummer, you wouldn't know a leaf had ever been part of the soil.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    It depends a lot on where you are. If you're in the south, plenty of decomposition happens in the soil over the winter. I till in leaves routinely in the fall, when leaves drop (which, around here, is November/December!) I just got done mowing my sixth pile of leaves. I only till about six inches of ground up leaves per season, and it works great. A foot of shredded leaves is a lot. Again, especially if you're in the south, I would reserve some of the leaves in a pile and use it as mulch for well developed plants throughout the season. Sprinkling what you dig in with high N fertilizer (e.g. el cheapo lawn fertilizer) isn't a bad idea either. That'll speed up the decomposition.

    Certainly just leaving them on top of the soil won't do any good (nor much harm). They'll probably just blow away. Though what's left on top in the spring will just be a caked mess that seedlings will find hard to penetrate.

  • glib
    9 years ago

    If they are matted they don't blow away, even in windy Michigan. Punching through mulch is a time honored technique to plant seedlings while eliminating weeds. You can not seed directly over leaves.

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    As others have already said, it depends on where you are. The amount of leaves that you should add (tilled or untilled) can be influenced by how well drained your soil is, and how early you intend to work it. My gardens have heavy soil which is generally waterlogged in the Spring... if I have leaves covering the surface, it will hinder my working the soil early.

    Regardless of conditions, a foot of shredded leaves is a lot for the garden to break down in one gulp. Leaves in such large quantities are better if composted first outside of the garden.

    Whenever the weather allows it, I prefer to till the shredded leaves under in the Fall. They will break down fairly quickly in the Spring. If Autumn rains make that impossible, then I store the leaves in bags, and till them under in Spring.

    This year I was able to turn my home gardens over in Fall. To supplement the nitrogen needed for decomposition, I allowed my grass to grow for several weeks before leaf fall, then cut & collected both leaves & grass together. If turning under dry leaves in Spring, I might see some slow growth in the first month or so after planting... but by about mid-Summer, the leaves have broken down, and with the increase in fertility, growth quickly makes up for lost time.

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you so much for everyone's replies. I live in zone 6 so I don't expect a whole lot of decomposition. The majority of my garden will be tomato and pepper plants started indoors. I will have a few started from seed and i expect i will have to clear the leaves in those areas. My hope is that I can leave the leaves where I put plants and they will help retain moisture, block weeds, and add nutrients. However, if they rob the soil of nutrients and will slow growth, I don.t want that. I appreciate everyone's input, it has certainly helped!

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    If the leaves are sitting on top, they won't rob the soil of anything. But they won't add anything either. I would say, why bother to have leaves delivered if you're just going to pile them on top. If you want to suppress weed, then just spread some newsprint.

    With regard to in-situ composting, remember that the leaves you add contain BOTH carbon and nitrogen. As it turns out, leaves are a bit low with the latter (C/N~60), but not very low. C/N in sawdust and wood chips is fantastically low, by comparison (C/N of several hundred). So I wouldn't sweat the nitrogen too much with tilled-in leaves. But if you can add greens or manure (C/N~20) it helps, and a dressing of lawn fertilizer will make everything nice. Greens will just compost faster than leaves. But the result is pretty much the same.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    Excuse me. I meant to say that C/N in sawdust and woodchips is fantastically HIGH. Not low.

  • glib
    9 years ago

    Obviously leaves will add the same nutrients whether they are on top or tilled in. The difference is in timing.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    I can't agree. If the leaves are sitting on top, matted down, and you're punching through them to set seedlings, they haven't added any nutrients to the soil. Sure, once you dig them in, they do add to the soil, but I guess that's for a crop a year later?

    I can keep my compost pile full and out of my garden because, after all, the benefit of it to my garden is all about timing. It's just sitting there in my pile helping my garden ... in some future year.

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    OK, sounds like I need to maybe take some off in spring and set aside for composting. Part of the reason I got the leaves is because in the spring and summer I have plenty of greens, and hardly any browns. I'll till some in the ground, leave some on as a mulch, but not much, and set the rest aside for composting. Thanks for the input everyone, looks like I joined the right forum!

  • galinas
    9 years ago

    If you dig that much leaves in the soil, you have to add some nitrogen too, otherwise decomposition process that requires "brown"(carbon) and "green"(nitrogen) materials will take all available nitrogen form your soil, as dead leaves are source of carbon. I would (and I do it every year) pile all the shredded leaves in the corner of your garden, and use them by the next fall, when they will be almost composted. If you add some nitrogen in the pile( fertilizer or green materials, such as manure or grass) they will decompose even faster.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    Actually, the C/N ratio in leaves is such that there is enough N for decomposition just in the leaf material. It just won't happen very fast without added nitrogen. I can attest by experience (and gardening afterward with a subsequent soil test) that digging a lot of brown leaves into your soil does not "take all available nitrogen from your soil". Nope. It just doesn't happen. Nitrogen fixing bacteria are continually fixing nitrogen in the soil as your decomposition is using it, and those bacteria ar thriving on the organic material you add. That is, nitrogen is added to your soil in many ways, not just in the compostables you're adding to it. It is common mis-wisdom that digging in lots of high C/N material leaves your soil dead. It is true that the nitrogen content will be reduced, but not necessarily by a whole lot.

  • goodground
    9 years ago

    Not sure how thick you mulch but I can't get enough. Pick them from the neighborhood 8 bags at a time. Apply thick layer of shredded leaves on all my fruits and veggies. Never tilled. This fall laid leaves 3 times and in some spots showing soil. In spring I will apply another thick mulch. Very fertile. A lot of healthy worms living in there. Like I said, can't get enough. Also use them to overwinter my figs. You can till them in if you want the physical exercise, but if not, I would let nature do its thing (less weeds). :-)

    Use enough to control weeds and pile the rest for compost. It's all good...

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    That's right. With the amount of leaf material you have, you should reserve a large pile as summer mulch and dig in the rest. Here in Texas, very thick mulch that holds moisture is a necessity in the summer heat. Half a foot isn't too much. But now, in the fall, if you can still start some in situ composting in your beds, get it in there. Come June, when the heat is getting bad, I'll rake up piles of leaves that accumulated in the corners of the lot over the winter and use them as a top-dressing. But if you have a place to store piles of fall leaves, so much the better

    Let me add that re nitrogen, once the in situ composting of high-carbon material is done, nitrogen levels will get back to normal because of the nitrogen fixing bacteria. But it's probably not smart to dig a lot of high carbon uncomposted material in right before planting. Especially wood chips. Again, what it comes down to is whether you live in a location where in situ composting can happen efficiently over the winter.

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    "This fall laid leaves 3 times and in some spots showing soil. In spring I will apply another thick mulch. Very fertile. A lot of healthy worms living in there." (Goodground)

    A good point, no one had yet mentioned the major role worms play in breaking down organic material. Decomposition may be slow on the surface, but worm activity in fertile soils can be very intense there.

    After planting, I mulch with hay rather than leaves - but the result is the same. Even starting with 3-4" of hay over most of the garden, by late summer the soil is nearly bare, except for piles pulled around the worm burrows. The earth worms are very thorough in consuming & breaking down dead vegetation. Their castings probably aid considerably in breaking down the leaves that I add in the Fall.

    I would be very cautious, though, about over-wintering leaves at the surface, especially if the leaves are applied when temperatures are still warm enough for slugs & insects to be active. I spread leaves over my lily beds in the Fall; but if the mulch is not pulled back in Spring, slugs which took shelter there will damage many of the shoots as they emerge. I have seen similar damage (to a lesser degree) in my garlic beds, when I mulch them early in the Fall. If you planted directly through a layer of leaves, you might see considerable damage to young seedlings.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    9 years ago

    My garden is permanent beds (not raised), and always mulched thickly with hay. I can't see how a hay mulch would be any different than a leaf mulch. I pull it aside for seeds, either opening up an area or just a row, depending on how I sow the seed, and planting seedlings in the ground and pulling the mulch back around as they grow. A mulch is a mulch.

    Worm activity breaks down the mulch which always needs replenishing.

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the continued advice, it all helps. I do have quite a few worms so I hope that the thickness of the leaves allows the worms to work longer even though it's cold. I probably applied one foot of shredded leaves. On top of that I added some ornamental grass that grows about 5 feet tall and covered all the leaves. I then added about another 6 inches of leaves. It was cold when I got the leaves, so I'm not sure how many slugs and bugs were left on the surface. I had some grass, beach sand, ashes from our firepit, and other greens under all the leaves. The leaves took 9 straight hours of hauling and bagging to get rid of, but the City said I had to take all or none, so now I am dealing with it. I also plan on taking the pitch fork to open up some holes in the leaves to allow moisture to get down to the bottom. I also wonder about it creating a natural tea. We have had a lot of rain and when I reached down in the leaves, my hands were stained from the moisture. I would think some of the nutrients are leeching into the ground. Thanks again for all the advice, and I'll be sure to let you all know how it works out next year! I'll just have to decide if it's worth getting another truck load of leaves every year :). Since I know how to add the link now, I added it to this post. It shows the process of putting the leaves on.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Leaves!!!!

  • Peter1142
    9 years ago

    I mowed up all my leaves. Shredded, compact and easy to compost.

  • planatus
    9 years ago

    I'm glad Laceyvail mentioned the worms, which are not alone at the leaf mulch/soil interface. I'm still moving piles of leaves, and when I take some up, the chickens are right behind me finding treasures. In parts of the garden that are mulched with shredded leaves the soil is slower to freeze so bioactivity does go on during the winter months, it's just slow.

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    9 years ago

    I used to collect whole leaves. A much better way is to finely mulch those leaves. I do this in my yard and otherwise by windrowing them and driving backwards through them some [this really, really fines them] and then keep working them into a shorter and shorter row until at the end there is a 6 foot diameter pile of very, very nicely mulched leaves that can be spread on the beds and perhaps worked in a bit...or not worked in. I have found this method to be superb.

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Great advice everyone. The leaves were pretty shredded from the compaction of the truck, but a lawn mower running over them once or twice probably would have helped. This will be a great learning experience for me, and all this info helps. I was also wanting to know if the leaves will warm up the soil faster in the spring. I think that was a problem for me last year. Hopefully by next November I'll know if I should ask for a truck load every year!! I also attached a picture of the leaves after they were dumped on my driveway. There's a lot of leaves there!

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    9 years ago

    I think that leaves on top of the soiil will delay warming some as the sun is shaded from the soil and the soil tends to be wetter under mulch which translates to cooler soil. You may want to rake the leaves back in the spring to let the sunshine in' .

    I like to primarily work up leaves in something other than the garden to keep from driving on the soil very much. Finely mulched leaves will rot quickly in the spring...who;e ones not so much and whole ones blow away badly. Mulched ones stay put.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    Nice pile!

    That's a tricky question about whether piled up leaves will delay warming in the spring. Two possibilities. If there is active composting going on in the soil (perhaps from the leaves that are piled up on top of it), that composting will generate heat, and the pile will act as an insulator and hold that heat in. On the other hand, if active composting isn't happening, heat won't be generated, and the pile of leaves will act as an insulator and hold the spring warmth out.

    I'm not sure which way it will go, but I'm suspecting that without greens for extra nitrogen, the pile won't self-compost that readily, especially in a frigid winter.

  • theforgottenone1013 (SE MI zone 5b/6a)
    9 years ago

    As Wayne said, mulches will delay warming in spring and will keep the soil wetter longer. I always pull the mulch off in spring then when things are planted and the temps start warming I put the mulch back.

    Rodney

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    Wetter soil only means cooler soil if it is exposed to the (dry) air. Soggy soil that is covered with a foot of leaves probably won't be much cooler than if it were dry, because the air immediately above it will have 100% humidity. At that humidity, the dew point is the temperature, and (assuming no other sources of heat) the temperature of the water will be that of the dew point.

    But it's true that exposed wet soil will be cooler than exposed dry soil.

    Maybe you could put a thermometer under your pile and see what happens.

  • southerngardening24
    9 years ago

    Wow that's alot of leaves! I'm curious if you had any issues with neighbors worried about leaves ending up on their perfect green leafless lawns. I had a pickup truck sized load of leaves dumped on our property and thought that was alot.

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    ... "Soggy soil that is covered with a foot of leaves probably won't be much cooler than if it were dry, because the air immediately above it will have 100% humidity."

    Perhaps... but then, it would still be soggy. ð And likely to remain so, perhaps longer than might be desired. In my climate, that would not only prevent me from tilling, it would delay soil warming in Spring. I still lay down leaves in Fall occasionally, if weather prevents me from tilling them in... but with the understanding that it could delay planting if there is a wet Spring.

    About that truck load of leaves... if you can't use that many (and don't intend to start a major composting operation) maybe ask some of your neighbors if they can use some? That could become an annual cooperative neighborhood project.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    That's a good point. Soggy soil is no fun to till.

    And yes, as I agreed, there probably won't be any heating from composting leaves at the bottom of that pile, so you're pretty much guaranteed cold soil down there when you bore through the mat of ground leaves to set in seedlings.

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Great stuff everyone, I love the thermometer idea. It got really cold last winter here(-20 F), so I fear the ground will get cold. I only have 2 3 gallon buckets for kitchen scraps, so I buried a bucket under the leaves today. The layer under the ornamental grass was dry :(, not good for decomposition. I think the grass may be blocking any rain, since we have had some rain lately and I hoped it would have gotten through and hasn't. I need to dig some holes. There are so many leaves, hopefully it will prevent the dirt from getting soggy. Pulling back the leaves is a good idea, but there would be nowhere to go with that many leaves. As far as the neighbors go, that was a worry of mine. We just moved here a few years ago and don't know them very well, but most yards are well kept. Luckily, the city said they would wait until it rained so that the leaves were wet. I had many neighbors slow down as they drove by, but nobody said anything except the neighbor next door (not pictured). He left in the morning and saw me working on it, and when he came home 8 hours later, he offered to help, even though I may have spoken to him once before. Very nice thing to do. I was able to move the leaves before they blew anywhere, a few got in the neighbors yard, but I was able to rake them up in a minute or two. They were shredded enough that no leaves have blown away in three weeks, even though we have had some high winds. I have talked to a friend of mine about splitting the load next year, but I don't know anybody else that would be interested. Good idea though, I should ask the neighbors. I fear I may have bitten off more than I could chew. My wheels have been turning trying to think of where I could get muy hands on a lot of greens for a major composting project, but I have nowhere to do it in my yard without being an eyesore to the neighbors. I'm sure they will decompose in time, but I also fear I will lose some growing time next year waiting for the soil to warm and the nitrogen to fix itself. I guess live and learn, and 2016 will be great, right?!?!?!? Thanks again everyone!

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    That's a good point. Ground up leaves will soak up rain/sprinkled water like crazy, and the ground below will not get much of it. You've already seen that. If your ground is already moist, that's not a big deal. But it it's really dry, that could be an issue.

    I'd guess another worry might be, in the spring, when it's time to plant, the foot-thick layer of leaves will have matted, but it'll still be pretty thick. The seedlings you put in will have to be reasonably sized to peek out of the (possibly frozen) hole that they're planted in. As ltilton said way up above, if you don't till them in, they're just going to be there for a long time as a thick mat. I'm beginning to wonder how this can work. If you till that much leaf mulch in, in the spring, it will never get composted in time to grow stuff in it that spring. You may be looking at a multi-year proposition here.

    My main mulch is ground up leaves (cottonwood, pecan, cedar elm, oak) so I have some insights here, but I've never had a layer that thick to deal with.

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I do plan on starting my plants inside early so I hope they are at least a foot tall before I transplant them. But you're right, that still might not be enough. Unfortunately, I did not spray the dirt before I piled the leaves on, but it was slightly damp from the recent rain, far from dry, but maybe not wet enough? Hopefully, poking it with the pitch fork will allow enough moisture to get through. I may have to set aside some time as soon as it's warm enough in the spring to figure out what to do. One option will be the large composting project suggested above which I guess I might be able to do on a smaller scale, and hopefully the overwintered leaves would be a great addition to that pile. A couple grass cuttings and that should get it started. If not, I'll have to bag the leaves or something as I'm not willing to give it a couple of years. I already miss my fresh vegetable! I just hope the leaves break down some to make it manageable. I wish the city would give us access to their dump site so we could just take what we need. I appreciate everybody's help with this, it's definitely given me some ideas. I'm glad you're sharing your experience with leaf mulching Dan, it will hopefully save me some growing pains :).

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    I've never heard of a city program that delivers shredded leaves before, and it sounds marvelous. But it's important to have a good strategy of what to do with them. Thanks for starting this conversation, and I look forward to hearing about what happens.

    I think this was suggested above, but you might try to till in a fraction of it, in-situ compost that fraction over the winter, and set aside the rest for summer mulch. Maybe put a big tarp over the pile to keep it from blowing away?

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    9 years ago

    If leaves are cut up to a very fine mulch, the end result would be about 10% of the bulk of whole leaves. I do the cutting up in the yard and in another place for some more. These fines can be spread over the beds and will stay in place. Slightly worked end is better if there is a really large application. Whole leaves worked in are a bit of trouble down the line.

    Yes, I have several years of leaf experience.

  • theforgottenone1013 (SE MI zone 5b/6a)
    9 years ago

    Old garbage cans with the bottoms cut out work great for storing leaves short term and work great for letting worms do their thing long term. They're also a little less conspicuous compared to some other composting methods. A 30 gallon can stuffed full of coarsely shredded leaves will yield about a couple buckets of compost once worms get done with it (at least that's been my experience). 55 gallon drums would work too.

    Rodney

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The City doesn't offer to drop them off, but I get kind of get obsessed at times and was upset that residents couldn't get their hands on this wonderful free resource. They said nobody works where it is dumped so you can't get it. I decided to e-mail the head of the public utilities and they kind of offered to do it, but I think I was the first one. I definitely plan on having a strategy next time :). I also will be sure to post updates. Hopefully a lesson can be learned from my mistakes. 10% would be great Wayne. I may have to find a way to get it into a fine mulch. It's broken down pretty good from being smashed in the back of the truck, but could be finer. I have considered the 55 gallon drum Wayne and may still do that. There's a local guy on Craigslist who sells ones that were used for food for only $10.

  • FrancoiseFromAix
    9 years ago

    jagdjh,

    I watched your video and it is fantastic ! Of course it's sort of exotic to me so I guess that's why it's so interesting, the deers, all those leaves that you succeeded in layering straight away (not a couch potato, are you ;-)) and also your technical way of recording the video which makes it quite funny, here the great red bushes, here the red bricks wall, touch how soft are my kitchen scraps, and round and round turns the compost bin ;-). Honest I loved it and I thank you for sharing !

    Do you expect your pine tree to grow next year ? I wouldn't want to be pessimistic, but I'm just wondering if the poor guy will be able to ;-)

    Finally there aren't that many leaves once you've worked them everywhere, and they're well covered with pine tree branches and that long strong grass so I wouldn't worry too much, I guess if it's rainy, with gravity the water will get to the bottom, and then the leaves will rot because everything finally rots in the end ;-)

    And there's N in leaves, it's not really as if you had wood chips, so personally I would just enjoy watching the good job done, and wait for spring to observe whether bacteria, fungi and worms had done their job as seriously as you did yours.

    I'm still impressed at the volume you did move around in a single day !

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Francoise, I find it fun to share with others who are interested, so I try to film it. I enjoy watching others videos, so i thought somebody might enjoy mine :). I hate sitting on the couch, until bed time! Sometimes I start feeling sick if I sit too long. That was a little more work than I usually enjoy though. I just would have felt awful if the leaves blew around, so I wanted to get it done, and start the composting. I am trying to eliminate the pine trees completely, so hopefully they don't grow back. My Wife doesn't like them, and they take up space where I can grow vegetables. I just didn't have the resources to remove the trunks. I love the deer, but probably won't next year when they are eating from my garden. They left it alone for the most part this year, but two years ago they ate every tomato. It will definitely be a battle with them. Thanks for the kind words, my body wasn't too happy with me after moving that many leaves!

  • zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin
    9 years ago

    Personally, I wouldn't worry about moisture penetrating the leaves; if anything, I would worry about too much moisture. Shredded leaves are very slow to release any water they absorb, and the bottom of the pile - and the soil beneath it - will not dry easily. Chances are that you will find yourself pulling the leaves aside in Spring to allow the soil to dry & warm (as I did on one of my gardens this year). I raked them back after the soil had dried & tilled them in, but you could also use those partially decomposed leaves as a mulch.

    One last note about piles of leaves over winter. If you have deer, then you probably have mice as well... and a pile of leaves is a tempting place to build a winter nest. I stored several bags of chopped leaves in an outside garage over the winter, and mice nested in two of them. Where they nest, they will cause mischief... especially in machinery (speaks one who needed to clean leaves out of the mower's engine cowling, and replace a chewed gas line).

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'll keep an eye on the moisture zeedman. We are supposed to get a lot of rain today and tomorrow, so I'll see how it penetrates. The mice are definitely a concern. We had one spend the winter in our garage last year. I'd rather they live in the leaf pile, but neither would be best. Might be time to get a couple of cats :).

  • FrancoiseFromAix
    9 years ago

    I watched the part 2 and saw you had great stuff growing ! All those baby peppers were perfect, and the tomatoes were growing real nicely !

    And also, very clean hands and nails for a gardener ;-)

    Nice banana peel going into the compost bin !

    I'm pretty sure that your next season will be even better, with or without mice, considering all the good organic matter you're adding !

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Francoise! I was pleased with my production considering I did no soil improvement, or even tilling before I planted it. The peppers did excellent, and other than the splitting, so did the tomatoes. I'm looking forward to an even better 2015, unless the leaves mess it up. My compost bin gets one banana peel a day :). I'll have to work on getting the hands dirty :).

  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Just thought I would give an update on my leaf experiment. Here's what I have learned. Leaves left in a bag will smell awful after a few months, and stain concrete :(. The good news is, it has been great in the garden. Its hard for water to penetrate it, but making a few holes in the leaves is more than adequate to get water in the ground. It did very little to prevent the ground from warming up. The dirt was plenty warm when I transplanted my tomatoes and peppers a couple of weeks before our last frost date. I have had no problem with the leaves being blown around in the wind, or even gusts. They all stayed in the garden. I attribute this to the fact they were smashed by the leaf collector and not loose. The number of worms that are in the garden thanks to the leaves is incredible. Every shovelful has between 15-20 worms. My garden should be loaded with worm castings, even if I'm getting very little from the leaves themselves. I have had plants in the garden since the first of May, and have not watered, and done very little weeding. The leaves were also effective in killing grass where i wanted to expand the garden. It is hard to plant from seed though. Not impossible, just harder. You have to remove the leaves before you plant the seed. The leaves still have a long way to go before they are broken down. I haven't noticed any mice or other rodents, which is a blessing. The plants all look healthy and green, so I'm assuming the leaves did not rob the garden of nitrogen. Overall, it has been a smashing success. Not sure I want to deal with 17 cubic yards of leaves for a while, but it was definitely worth it. To see a video of the garden, go to this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCskwQqeZCs Garden Update

  • rgreen48
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Just this spring, before it got too tall, I had to take down a maple tree with a 'sectioned', 4 part trunk growing close enough to the house to cause trouble in a future strong wind storm. It was tall enough to cause damage already, so before it got too big and needed a bucket truck and an expensive professional, up I went, and down it came!

    The neighbors must have though I was crazy (and well, maybe they are right lol - certainly by their standards!) but I waited a month or so for the sun to dry out the leaves to a crisp, I took my loppers and cut the branches down to manageable size, and I hand-stripped the leaves off of every branch into empty garbage cans.

    I then simply crushed them in the cans and they are sitting there, patiently waiting to be tilled into my clay.

    The branches, in their entirety, depending on thickness, were cut up with the loppers, hand pruners, or a bow saw. I have a few more of the 6 -12" trunk left to saw up (the heat slows me down) but the vast majority of that good sized tree is now ready to either be burned for heat, or to help feed the household.

    Oh, and as maples are prone to do, I left some shoots growing off the stump for a cut, and come again harvest.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    8 years ago

    Sounds successful. I am a bit surprised, however, that you found the leaf layer hard for water to penetrate, and that the leaves have not yet broken down. I guess I have to ask how ground up they were. Grinding them with a lawnmover makes for a consistency that is highly penetrable, and (especially when dug in) breaks down in a month or two. Maybe if your leaves were just coarsely shredded, I could imagine things happening like you say they did.


  • jagdjh
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    They actually weren't grinded up at all. They were just sucked into the back of the truck, and then compacted like a garbage truck. I agree if they were more ground up, it would have helped with the decomposition. As they are, it is like sheets of cardboard.