I'd have the soil tested, and then apply recommended amendments. The Intelligent Gardener, by Steve Solomon, is a great resource to learn about soil problems. Black Lake Organic will send in your soil to Logan Labs, analyze the results and formulate a custom fertilizer for your specific soil.

http://www.blacklakeorganic.com/Default.aspx?pageId=1530716

Several people have had that happen with Mel's Mix the first year. It doesn't seem to have enough nutrients in it. The remedy is to add more compost.

I assume that the raised bed has a bottom to it if it was on your deck. If so then it is nothing more than a very large container. Containers need a potting soil as opposed to a garden soil. It has to do with drainage and compaction and water tables, etc. Potting soils stay light whereas garden soils compact and cause problems in containers. Using a good quality potting soil and regular light fertilizing with a water soluble fertilizer should give you better results. You should check out the container gardening forum for more info.

Also, be aware of what herbs you want to grow. Some herbs like the soil more on the dry side and some like it moist. Mixing the two types wouldn't be advisable. Although you should be able to get away with it in the 8x2' raised bed since it's large, just try to group them by their watering needs.

If you want to do a raised bed in the ground, I suggest getting a soil test done to see if you need to apply lime or something similar. Then till in a lot of compost into your native soil.

Rodney

Here is a link that might be useful: Container Gardening Forum

Thanks for the help so far. I'd like to use the 8x2' in it's new spot (evening shade) for things that might appreciate that.

I'd like to do some raised beds out in the yard. The soil that makes up our back yard is bright red and full of rocks, so I was thinking of having some soil delivered as opposed to trying to "fix" what is there. Is that a good idea, or should I actually try to go hardcore and use what I have + amendments?

Thanks!

Try a lasagna method in the area you want to put the raised bed over the winter (to kill the grass and encourage worms in that area). In the spring time, you could put your raised bed on this area and not have to worry about the grass dying and releasing and overkill of nutrients into the lower layers of your raised bed.

A trick that I did when I was first starting my garden area was plant a green manure or living mulch crop. The first plants I ever had in my garden now were cucurbits (zucchinis and pumpkins) and legumes (string beans) specifically because once the plants were dying/dead, I could turn them over into the earth. Also, the spreading, mulching nature of cucurbits ensured that there was little competition, while the legumes were helping to consume and fix nitrogen into the soil of the garden.

The year after, I planted all solanaceae such as cherry, grape, green house/on the vine, and heirloom tomatoes, habañero bell and bonda ma jacques peppers, and yukon gold potatoes. In the same area, I also planted herbs like rosemary, thyme, and basil.

Next year, I plan to rotate again. I think I'm going to grow herbs and flowers in the vegetable area along with a large patch of corn and runner beans. I'm also wanted to try sweet potatoes, and because they aren't a solanaceae I don't have to worry too much about pest transfer from the previous year.

The first year I gardened like this, I didn't have a compost pile. I bought a stack of straw or hay (which ever didnt have seeds) and used that as a mulching for the winter time. Now that I have a compost pile, I mulch with the compost as well as turn in all of the vines and leaves from the living plants that summer. I cover the entire plot in the winter like this.

It seemed to work last year. I grew the largest tomato plant I've ever grown in this garden area! The more biodiversity you introduce to the garden area (by planting a larger variety of plant families and not just plant species) you'll encourage plenty of other organisms that will enrich your soil.

Test around with flowers like nasturtium, borage, or catmint, and don't be too afraid of deep rooting weeds like dandelion which pull trace minerals from the lower soil levels to the surface. :)

You said your seedlings were stunted and did not continue to grow not long after they sprouted. There could be a lot of different reasons for it such as insufficient/over watering, insufficient/over fertilizing, insufficient/too much sunlight etc and the list goes on. There is so much one has to know about your garden and your gardening style to get to the root of your problem.

If you would like to learn more about the basic of fertilizing, this article is for you:
http://clippings.gardenweb.com/clippings/Darlene57#forums2.gardenweb.com_forums_load_contain_msg1020215928898

If it were me, I would try to use at least some of the existing soil. The problems with clay is that it compacts, has poor drainage, and can become like concrete if allowed to dry out but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's useless and/or devoid of nutrients.

You can truck some soil in, cover the grass with a layer of cardboard or several layers of newspaper, and lay the new soil directly on top of your existing soil (inside the raised beds). But you would have two completely different soil types that act completely different in terms of drainage and moisture holding ability. That *could* cause some problems, at least initially (not saying that it will). Once worms find your garden they'll mix the soils for you.

You could also do lasagna beds like Persimmons suggested by laying cardboard or newspaper on top of the grass and then layering organic material on top of that. You'd be relying on worms to do your tilling and mixing for you once again.

Or you could double dig by tilling your existing soil, mixing in compost, and then adding new soil on top of this. This would be more of a modified double dig technique.

There are countless ways to start a garden. Every way has it's own pros and cons and no single way is the *right* way. It depends on how much work you're willing to do, how much work you are physically able to do, what materials and amendments you have access to at the time, your gardening style, what time of year you're building the bed, how quickly you want to use the bed, etc.

Rodney

Clay clay clay! I have total adobe clay !
I also compost. When I moved my compost container from right next to the house cause I didn't want mice/rats, I noticed that I could dig right down in the area down to a foot or more deep! Normally in this area we have about a 2 week digging time before it turns to rock hard!
If I were you, I would first determine if you have gophers and deal with them as you want to. Then, figure out your garden design (be sure to include a good amount of area to get your wheelbarrow through the walking areas, my vote is 3')
Design your beds, fill with whatever leaves/grass clippings/UCGs, then get a load of the best stuff from the local soil/compost place you can find!
After that, do your own compost! It's easy!

Great advice above -- and I second (third?) the idea of lasagne on your native soil. Soil is alive -- the stuff in bags in not. Bright red and full of rocks doesn't sound bad at all -- have it tested to see where it stands. Clay, with added organic matter, is great stuff.

You can always use the containers you already have, and follow the suggestions above for getting the right mix of stuff to use in them, and then also start layering organic matter over part of your yard. Next year can be a contest between containers and native soil. I'd bet on the native soil.

Good luck! Gardening is a learning process. You'll do better next year because of the trial and error you learned from this year.

Try to ask around and find some successful local gardeners. See what advice they have for growing in the local soil type. Then decide if you want to garden in the existing soil, bring in soil, or use raised beds.

Stuff cannot die that fast from soil problems. The squash I would assume had vine borers. The rest I would think is watering problems, which may be due to soil holding water. I would add lots of compost and get a soil test.

Actually, I think it is the bought "soils". It's kind of extreme and unheard of to have all different kinds of crops sprout well and then die quickly like that. I can't think of another reason.

I agree with the advice of other posters: amend your existing soil and get away from that bought stuff. Beyond that, correct timing of adapted crops is always super important. You can't grow tomatoes in january in new england nor can you grow them in july in florida. You must know how your climate works. Excessive heat was very likely a factor with some of your failures.

Don't get discouraged. Read about traditional crops for the region - I forget where Gadsen is in AL, but the Gulf is way different from northern AL, obviously. When are they planted? Ask around, look around. The best thing you could do is search out a market gardener in the area and find out when they plant things. People doing it to make money always plant at the right time, so you can't go wrong that way.

Also, low-calcium clay, which is almost surely what you have, can benefit a lot from gypsum. Yes, get the soil test, spend money on lime and gypsum and organic fertilizer (if indicated) which is money well invested, not bagged soil.

Everyone else has covered the soil aspect in detail, but the thing that first struck me was your description of "trees on 3 sides and house on the 4th". With that description it sounds like you are severely lacking sun. Without good sun you will be unable to grow many common vegetables. Think back to summer and try to estimate how many hours of direct sunlight were hitting your raised bed. It might make the whole picture a little clearer. Cheers!

Doesn't explain plants dying though. Were they actually dying or languishing? it's a big difference.

What amazes me is that you (Lauren ) keep saying that your plants keep dying after a while.
To me, you can grow just about anything in a poor soil and keep the plants alive, though they may not thrive.

There are few possibilities:

- You are not taking care of the plants as you should, mostly not watering them or watering them TOO MUCH. Even maybe over fertilizing them !

-- The soil is contaminated with herbicide. It could be that you have applied too much of it to kill the weeds !?

--- How about BLACK WALNUT trees? do you have any in your backyard ?

I have gardened in GA clay soil. All I did was I added some leaves, topsoil from the wooded area, wood ash, pine needles, lime ...But never saw plants dying EXCEPT once where I had a garden under the canopy of a black walnut tree. Even then only tomatoes died.

Yes, plants quickly dying at such a young age indicates a really severe problem - herbicide residue seems like one of the most likely possibilities. The solution to this has been explained, stop using beds filled with bagged stuff. I have seedlings die after germinating in soil from bags of stuff called 'potting soil'.

Again, are the plants actually dying or simply growing very little and getting over-run by weeds?

Instead of going to a box store, see if a locally-owned garden center has a source for excellent compost. I live wa-ay in the country, and know of two places nearby where I can go look at the batch of the week before I buy.

Alabama summers are too hot for containers and raised beds, which will work great from fall to spring for greens and root crops. For tomatoes and other summer crops, you need deeply improved soil in permanent beds.

Radishes are not easy, despite their reputation. If you want easy, plant bush beans, lettuce and turnips.

Bushel containers are not big enough for sweet potatoes or a good zuke. Those big summer crops want to be in the ground.

Hang in there -- you have a great climate for year-round gardening.

This seems pretty straight forward to me.

She used soil designed for raised beds (which have the huge wicking power of the earth built in, so the soil tends to be designed to retain a lot of water) in containers, which need exceptionally well draining soil.

The soil probably held way too much moisture, and she had lots of root rot.

We did not here anything back from her. So why bother.

This post was edited by seysonn on Sat, Jan 4, 14 at 17:19