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| Hi,
I am hoping someone can give me some input or advice. I want to start my vegetables from seed next spring. I don't have the shelf space available in the main part of my house, but I have a nice sturdy shelf in my basement. The problem is, there are no windows down there. It is not liveable space. There is electrical, so I could use fluorescent lights. The is no heat venting, but the furnace is down there and right now (I just bought a thermometer and put it down there) the basement seems to be a steady 65F. I don't know if that will be true in Jan, Feb, and March. Providing I have a good temperature, will shop lights give enough light to grow my vegetables? Or do they need window time? Thank you in advance Lynn |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by wolverine1012 6 SW OH (My Page) on Sun, Nov 4, 12 at 18:44
| Lynn, Shop lites will be fine. Put them on a timer so that they get about 16 hours of light a day (the plants need to sleep, too!). I set up an area of our basement like this several years ago using plastic shelving units and shoplights. They make a special bulb that is supposed to be better than regular fluorescent tubes, but they are also quite a bit more expensive. Being a little frugal, I decided to put one of each in each fixture and it has worked well. Your biggest challenge will be to arrange the lights so that they can be adjusted. You want the bulbs to be just over the tops of the plants. The plants naturally grow toward the light and if the lights are too high above the plants, all you will get are leggy plants. |
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| Agree. Shop lights, assuming enough of them are used and they are kept close enough to the plants, are far better than window light. You can read all about this as well as many other tips and techniques over on the Growing from Seed forum here. Be sure to check out all the FAQs on that forum as lighting is just one of the basics covered. Dave |
Here is a link that might be useful: Growing from Seed forum
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| I echo what was said by wolverine and Dave. Use ordinary florescent tubes, not the expensive grow-lights. Have a way of adjusting the distance from the lights to the plants, by raising or lowering either the lights or the plants. Put the lights on a timer. Your basement temperature will be good except for germination, which will be slow at 65 degrees. You could put your flats in a warmer place, even with insufficient light, until plants start to emerge, then move them to the light set-up. Be sure to use seed starting mix, not potting mix. You will like the results. Jim |
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| You can also retain a lot of heat by enclosing your plant area in a plastic tent, like the marijuana growers do. A heavy curtain that turns the area near the furnace into a "room" can also help. If you get shop lights with flat metal hoods over them, or attach hoodless florescents to a metal utility shelf (works great), you can set seeded flats on top for bottom heat. |
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- Posted by LynnMarie_ 5 SW Kansas (My Page) on Tue, Nov 6, 12 at 9:13
| Thanks to all you guys for your responses. I am a bit of a dork and have been compiling a file with veggie growing information. I will add your advice to it to refer to until I get some seedstarting success. I also read the FAQ and there is very useful information that I am going to hang on to. Thanks again, and if anyone else has anything to add, I am all ears. Lynn |
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| "...you can set seeded flats on top for bottom heat." Setting flats on top of florescent fixtures is a good way to provide bottom heat, which will greatly speed up germination. After plants emerge, cool temperatures are best. Jim |
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| Do a Google search on DIY seed starter pad. You can easily make one for far less than the cost. I'm currently working on the plans for a seed starter rack with 1x3 wood and metal shelving from Lowes that goes for $7 for the whole thing. You don't need to spend a lot of money - standard lights are fine. |
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| Lynn: Just a little more input. Regular flourescent shoplights are fine, but make sure you pick up the the "daylight" bulbs. And, as wolverine mentioned, plenty of hours of light. Though, I think "they" did a test between 12 and 16 hours and "they" noticed that there wasn't much difference between the two. So, you can go 12 on and 12 off and rotate if you want to keep them going 24 hours a day. If you don't want to pay a lot for a small bag of seed starting soil, you can make your own with peat and perlite As far as temps, 75 to 80 would be ideal, but 65 should be fine. I wouldn't want to get much lower than that though. Also, make sure you harden off the little guys before planting in the big, bad world of your garden. Good luck. Kevin |
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| Lynn: Just a little more input. Regular flourescent shoplights are fine, but make sure you pick up the the "daylight" bulbs. And, as wolverine mentioned, plenty of hours of light. Though, I think "they" did a test between 12 and 16 hours and "they" noticed that there wasn't much difference between the two. So, you can go 12 on and 12 off and rotate if you want to keep them going 24 hours a day. If you don't want to pay a lot for a small bag of seed starting soil, you can make your own with peat and perlite As far as temps, 75 to 80 would be ideal, but 65 should be fine. I wouldn't want to get much lower than that though. Also, make sure you harden off the little guys before planting in the big, bad world of your garden. Good luck. Kevin |
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| We start all of our seed in our basement too. I have a germination chamber ( an oil filled radiant heater in a 4ft by 4ft box. The planted flats go inside this box until I see seeds starting to come up, then they go on the light racks. My racks consist of 4, 2 by 4 legs with 2, 2 by 4 cross pieces. I have attached scrap size pieces of plywood to the top. There are 4 shelves with 4 lights each. I can put 8 flats on each shelf. If I plant in 50's or 72's, I can have 1600 to 2300 seedlings growing at once. The lights are on a timer that run 16 hours a day. The shop lights work great, just put new bulbs in them every 2 years or so. I always notice a difference in the plants between new light bulbs and old light bulbs. The new bulb plants are healthier. Here is a pic.
Jay |
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| Is it better to get 2 shop lights with 2 bulbs or 1 shop light with 4 bulbs if your shelf is wide enough to use either the 2 or 4 bulb light. |
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- Posted by wolverine1012 6 SW OH (My Page) on Fri, Nov 9, 12 at 20:53
| I wouldn't think that it matters much unless you wanted different amounts of light on different plants. All my plants get the same light. |
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| I have one with 4 bulbs and the rest have two. I prefer the two bulbs. you can spread them apart a little more and get better coverage. The 4 bulb ones, the bulbs are a little closer. Also, I rotate my flats every time I water them to get better light coverage. One day they are in line with the lights, the next time the sit cross ways. Jay |
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- Posted by LynnMarie_ 5 SW Kansas (My Page) on Tue, Nov 13, 12 at 21:02
| You guys are great! I really appreciate all the input. I am going to start small. I bought a two bulb shop light yesterday, and a package of daylight bulbs. I also got a small bag of seed starting mix, but it won't go far. I am going to hang the light this weekend and start some experimental seeds to see if I can get them to transplant size without killing them. And, I want to mix my own starter next time. If i could ask one more thing-what is the ratio of sphagnum to perlite? Wow jrslick that is a lot of seedlings. Thanks for the picture. And thanks again to everyone for the help. |
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- Posted by wolverine1012 6 SW OH (My Page) on Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 15:56
| Are you starting seeds just as an experiment? It's too late to transplant anything outside now. |
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| It not too late, I am starting lettuce to transplant out after Christmas. However, I will transplanting them into unheated High Tunnels outside. You could almost say I it is late this year are super early for next year. Here is what one of our tunnels looked like a few weeks ago. Jay |
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- Posted by LynnMarie_ 5 SW Kansas (My Page) on Wed, Nov 14, 12 at 22:13
| yes, I am only going to experiment with starting seeds. I have some tomato seed, colored bell peppers, lettuce, carrots, sunflowers that I want to try to grow to healthy transplants. I tried last spring and had dismal luck. But I was using potting soil, a very small grolight and I didn't feed them at all. Only water. Also, I brought in aphids with lettuce I bought at the local nursery. :( I want to make my own seed starting mix for the spring, but I'm not sure about the ratio of sphagnum moss to perlite? I'm also not sure about what to use as containers. Where does everyone get their flats and cell packs from? I have managed to keep lettuce alive under reemay, but it hasn't been very cold yet. I am thinking about opening some wire clothes hangers to make arches to hold the cloth up off of the leaves and give some air space. I haven't done it yet because I think the hangers will just fall over with any breeze and we had 40 mph a few days ago. Anyone ever try it? |
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| Lynn: A few tips for success -- I'm no expert, but between these forums and trial and error, I do transplants pretty good(now). Go about 3:1 on peat to perlite. As far as cell packs, I use ones that I've had from store bought pony packs over the years, but this year I was in Lowe's and they had a section with a bunch of recycled containers from pony packs to 4", to half gal. to 7 gal for free. I grabbed a ton of em. Just make sure you clean them well so you don't infect your babies. Now, onto the peppers and tomatoes -- you can start them well before spring time and just "pot up" as they get bigger and bigger. After the initial start up pot though, you may want to change your "soil" to the famed 5-1-1 mix(5 parts conifer bark fines, 1 part coarse perlite, 1 part peat or turface) until you're ready to put the plants in their final spots(ground or large container). Visit the hot pepper forum -- it's very busy and you'll learn a ton. As far as feeding, no need to feed for the 1st few weeks-- the seed has all it needs to get it started. After that, keep ferts at a diluted strength(maybe 1/4). Don't overwater! Lettuce is real simple to start. Fill pony pack with mix, saturate, sow seed, and then barely cover with more mix, wet again, cover loosely with plastic wrap, and stick under light. When they emerge, pull plastic wrap off. The others I can't help you with too much. My soil compacts too much for carrots and sunflowers I've never grown. I always thought carrots were better directly sown. Good luck. Kevin |
Here is a link that might be useful: info on 5-1-1 mix
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- Posted by LynnMarie_ 5 SW Kansas (My Page) on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 11:58
| I thought I would post an update on my seed starting trials with a question on my tomatoes. I started lettuce, carrots, sunflowers, peppers, tomatoes, zinnias and yuccas. The lettuce, carrots, sunflowers, yuccas and zinnias all have done great. I pulled the sunflowers, carrots and lettuce because I can't really do anything with them and I need the space for the tomatoes and peppers and yuccas. The zinnias are still growing, just because I haven't had the heart to pull them...I loved my zinnias last summer. So far the peppers and yuccas are very healthy looking-so green that my son said they look fake! On the other hand,I am not having much luck with my tomatoes. Several died early on, and the remaining are slowly turning yellow, getting limp(not droopy, but just not strong limbs) and getting a little crispy on the edges. I don't always turn the lights off at night, so I am going to get a timer tonight and I think that will take care of the crispy edges. I will run it 16 hours on, 8 hours off. When I transplanted the tomatoes, the roots were small, so I have cut back on watering somewhat, maybe not enough, and I have started fertilizing at about 1/4 strength with seedling fert because I read that yellowing indicates a nutrient deficiency. The tomatoes are in a mixture of potting soil and spaghnum (1/2 ratio). I will try to add a picture so you can see what they look like. If anyone can give me some advice I would really appreciate it. I need to get this figured out soon. Lynn |
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| You might be overwatering. Let the soil get dry between waterings. You might try posing the question over on the tomato forum also. Good Luck and keep us updated. Thanks Kevin |
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- Posted by LynnMarie_ 5 SW Kansas (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 13 at 10:04
| Okay, thanks Kevin. I will let them dry out more between waterings. I will also try the tomato forum. More information is never a bad thing. Lynn |
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| Another basement seedling starter here. Our lights are moved up and down with some rope and hardware that will grab the rope and let it stay at a given length. We got it all at a hardware store so any handy staffer out to be able to help you out with a design. I also set the shelves at slightly different heights so that I can accommodate some taller seedlings if the weather doesn't cooperate. Crossing my fingers for good weather this year! |
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