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The original garden

inkognito
14 years ago

Is there such a thing? When we come to lay out a garden, whether as a DIY effort or because it is our job where does the inspiration come from? When Audrics class was asked to draw a tree, none of them copied one out the window but from somewhere in their head. I use the word "copied" advisedly because even if they had drawn one from real life it still wouldn't have been a tree. In spite of what I said on another thread, is the imagined tree a more original concept than a drawing or a photograph of a particular tree?

I imagine some know where I am coming from with this question but as all gardens are artificial, is an imitation as good as the original? Aren't all gardens derivatives of other gardens?

Note that I am using "garden" in its English sense that might be yard or landscape to you.

Comments (39)

  • duluthinbloomz4
    14 years ago

    Begs the question - how is the "original" garden determined? When the planet was covered by all manner of fantastic forms? When our ancestors turned from being hunter gatherers to an agrarian lifestyle? Or by what we commonly understand as a plot of ground set aside for the cultivation of ornamental plants, herbs, fruit, vegetables, trees?

    A drawing, a photograph, a Thomas Kinkade dabbling is not a garden - even though they may represent one. Not terribly philosophical, but how would we know about many things, gardens notwithstanding, without some reliance on what's been done or written about or depicted before? Today's plant material is derivative of ancient forms - what is possibly new is how we manipulate these current forms to our own ends. Maybe filed away in that gardening part of the brain there's a memory of a pleasant place that spoke to us that we can't duplicate except in an "a la"... fashion. For each of us who digs in dirt and arranges plant material basically for our own pleasure, that might be as good as it gets.

    I suppose it's easy for me as a DIYer to give in to artifice, manipulation or just plain planting something I did my due diligence on because it's what I want where I want it. I don't have to satisfy the client who wants Giverny on his Montana ranch.

    But I sometimes think that cliche here really means something you (generic) wouldn't do.

  • bahia
    14 years ago

    There are always going to be multiple sources of inspiration for any garden design, whether it is DIY or professionally designed. I like to think that the spirit of the place has first place in importance for initial design, but past experiences/gardens, cultural norms, current trends, resources available to build with, all influence a garden's design, as well as the personal preferences and experiences of the designer/owner.

    I'd agree that there is little new under the sun when it comes to gardens, but each garden is different because it is rooted to a particular place, and the passage of time makes it a changing art form that is nearly impossible to remain static.

    For me the idea of an original garden, if such a thing exists at all, is the origins of the paradise garden; a walled garden with its reliance on water, shade and beauty to contrast with the surrounding wilderness or often desert, in an attempt to provide a pleasant respite from the surroundings in contrast to the harsh natural environment and man's architecture. The paradise garden was a step up from a garden for food, in that plants were chosen for beauty, fragrance, shade as opposed to being only utilitarian for food and fiber. The paradise garden became associated with relaxation, entertainment of guests, dining and music, outdoors rather than enclosed within a building. As a reason for creating a garden, I think it is still a highly useful starting point, that has never lost value over the centuries.

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    14 years ago

    I think gardens are influenced by things like experience, emotion and intellect. For example, other gardens you've seen and that have touched you in some way find their way into your mental conception of 'your' garden. Talking with other gardeners - even the ones in cyber space in places like this one - draw other people's experiences into your garden too. The intellect gets involved when you read about garden history and the technical and artistic aspects of gardening. I know that my garden has been shaped by all those things but the physical original garden that pervades my current garden was the one - cultivated and natural - that existed here in my childhood days:
    {{gwi:7088}}
    It's one of life's sad realities that much of that property is almost unrecognizeable to me now. In my youth, there would only have been one house, three barns, more fields, less woods, and the lake with the island. The garden that was there is now a ghost that lives only in my head (and that of my sister) but continues to shape the gardens of our present.

    (An emotional response to your post...:-)

  • laag
    14 years ago

    What was Audge's teacher looking for them to do and why. I would argue that the teacher was exercising their minds to learn to observe detail and be able to "re-create" it. It is the basic exercise that we are all doing when we make an "original" garden. It is original application of what you have observed.

    One garden will not look exactly like any other. Some will look extremely different than any of the others even if the inspiration is the same. That is also what would happen if the entire class drew the same tree.

    Originality is in the application rather than the inspiration.

  • rhodium
    14 years ago

    The original garden would be the one created by nature at the site. That could be the one created and evolved by nature since the dawn of creation or thought of as the one created by nature prior to any human cultivation. That garden would be driven by random chance, erosional forces of nature, and the struggle for survival between competing plant species. This original garden while beloved by the Green crowd typically is not what the average person would like to surround themselves with. We build parks as a mimic of the forest, but these parks have no poison ivy, brambles or other dead-fall.

  • carol6ma_7ari
    14 years ago

    What an interesting thread! Ink, your definition involving English landscape is apt because (looking it up in the OED) the word "garden" refers to a walled or "guarded" enclosure for cultivation of plants.

    So here we are, discussing real vs. ideal, philosophy of landscaping. Using the word "original" seems to have branched into several different meanings. One is being creative and innovative. Another seems to be an original prehistoric garden.

    Sorry, we can't refer to original uncultivated tree and plant areas as gardens. A garden always (even if made to look natural) means some sort of cultivation or planning.

    What I imagine when confronted with the phrase "original garden" is a mid-East oasis of several thousand years ago, with date palms, goats herded through for watering, sanctuary rules about safety of strangers. Hey, that's the little cloud image floating over MY head.

    Carol

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I think the "emotional response" is the one that get's us to something approaching authenticity or genuineness but this may also be what prevents it. I am always amazed when I see pictures of peoples homes in Architectural Digest that seem to be laid out like pictures of peoples homes in Architectural Digest with books on the table and stuff around that is supposed to represent the owners personality but strikes me as a cover up. Who wants to show themselves openly by the choices they make in the garden?

    There is an old wives tale that says parsley, a difficult plant to grow, only thrives in a family garden where the woman wears the trousers (i.e has the upper hand). Would you test this theory would you or would you not plant parsley?

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    14 years ago

    Ink - parsley grows well in our garden! :-)

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I rest my case.

  • rhodium
    14 years ago

    "Sorry, we can't refer to original uncultivated tree and plant areas as gardens. A garden always (even if made to look natural) means some sort of cultivation or planning. "

    Are you really sure about that? The answer is not always in the back of the book, sometimes it can be found in the front of it.

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    14 years ago

    I agree with rhodium - and if you don't consider a natural area a garden, you can at least learn valuable things for making a cultivated garden! The pictures below - from an entirely natural area (aside from obviosly having been logged over at some point...) - show me a lot about things like attractive combinations, the value of 'nurse' logs and leaf mulch in a shady, woodland garden, and the value of great sweeps of the same - or similar - plants...!
    {{gwi:7089}}
    {{gwi:7090}}

  • nandina
    14 years ago

    Sorry, Ink, this discussion is not of interest to me. I have nothing to contribute. But....we must get you up to speed growing parsley using the 'busy housewife' method in the frozen north. During the fall place a stake in the garden where you would like to grow parsley. As spring approaches, sow parsley seed around the stake on top of what you hope is the last blast of winter snow. Mother Nature will take over from there and grow you a verdant parsley crop. Try it. It works.

  • carol6ma_7ari
    14 years ago

    Beautiful natural areas, those trees, ferns and... (are they trilliums?) "Garden" means a planted or planned or cultivated area, possibly enclosed. You can look it up. You may have wonderful natural areas which are parkland (trees spread out in grasslands), swamps, marshes, fens, veldts, tundra, etc.; and they may be wonderful to look at and inspirational, but they ain't gardens. The word is used too loosely: sculpture gardens, kindergartens, bargain gardens. Like "heaven' now refers to hamburger joints, hobo hangouts, etc.

    Carol

  • luckygal
    14 years ago

    "There is an old wives tale that says parsley, a difficult plant to grow, only thrives in a family garden where the woman wears the trousers (i.e has the upper hand). Would you test this theory would you or would you not plant parsley?"

    Guess that explains why a parsley plant grew "spontaneously" in my garden last year in an area I've never planted parsley! A complete mystery which I credited to a long dormant seed and decent soil but it must be because I wear the pants in my family! ;-) LOL

    My garden inspiration is an amalgamation in my mind of all the gardens, garden pictures, and plants I've seen that I like. Undoubtedly also influenced by many other life experiences. It's a complete original, by definition, but could be described as an "Ã la" garden because it is both in the style of the inspiration and in *my* style. For me the "imitation" is as good (or better) than the original because I caused it to be. Of course it may look little like any of the original gardens because I've taken parts from each and put it a different setting and within parameters both unchangeable and those I've created.

    All gardens are derivative of other gardens the same as a cake is derivative of bread. Change the recipe a bit and it becomes a different product altho with similar ingredients.

  • tibs
    14 years ago

    I was surprised at my first thought of original garden was Eden, not being a terribly religious person. Then I realized it was from an illustrated children's bible that was in the doctor's office when I was small. (It was an advertising gimick to get parents to subscribe to a whole series of children's books).
    Too young to read, I always picked that book because I loved the picture of Eden. A beautiful stream thru a meadow with over the top Wisteria flowers. Definately not fine art work. But I would have to say that picture influenced my garden design. One of the first plants I got was a start of a purple Wisteria Vine to go on the swingset frame, no longer used for swings and a very sturdy structure built of heavy metal piping.

  • isabella__MA
    14 years ago

    The original garden being that first (hence original)garden that you are aware of or influenced by at a higher level. Maybe that's why the cliche lawn and perimeter border bed are so widespread, because that's most people first "garden" experience.

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Hey listen Nandina there is no problem with growing parsley in my garden, oh, wait a minute.

  • timbu
    14 years ago

    If a child draws a house, it has yellow walls, red roof, door, window, and a chimney with smoke.
    There seems to be a list of "obligatory elements" that exist in every traditional garden here, and that, to a lot of people, define "home" - and would be in their drawing if they were required to draw a garden: lawn, lilacs, roses, mockorange, fruits and berries, dill and onions (and yes, parsley - women are strong and men are handsome in the North...), peonies and lilies, dandelions, table and chairs, swing, rock garden, sandbox, a few big trees if there's room, or even if there isn't, clothesline, firewood, dog and cat, a place to make fire.
    This pretty accurately describes the garden I grew up in, and the one I married into. It's the "original garden" in the collective consciousness. Radicals have been trying to break away from the pattern, but their efforts have largely been incorporated into the tradition - as happened to the rockery in the 30s.
    I'm curious to see what happens to the recent real estate boomers' gardens 20 years from now. They started with empty lawns, which then got surrounded by hedges of arborvitae, and embellished with 3 shrubs - one with yellow leaves, one with red, one with green, plus a bluish conifer. Their owners are working madly to make them more like home - and I'd like to see is whether the end result will approach the tradition once again (yellow shrubs incorporated), or whether it will go in some new direction. As of now, I think Version 1 is more likely, so I predict the return of the Original Garden.

  • rhodium
    14 years ago

    Interesting then the original garden is unique to yourself and your initial garden concepts are formed by your experience. Seem to be describing a growing up process in general. The danger though is when that growing gets to the point of intellectual stuffiness. For example it's nice to go to a museum and enjoy art. Others maybe at a pompus level seem to need to provide a description of the influences and history to propery frame peice. From a history level it's nice, but if you have to read these stuff to like the art or convince yourself you should, then it miss the point. Is it good art or not?

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    14 years ago

    Hmmm... did I just get called pompous?! :-) (I probably am - although I'd prefer to call it passionate about the things that interest me... :-) And I'm very much a 'visual' person - 'a picture is worth a thousand words' and all that... One of the things I think this forum needs is more pictures... They're a great way to engage another part of your mind, illustrate points, and provide background and context to see things through someone else's eyes. For instance, I'd love to see pictures from timbu to illustrate the word-portrait of the garden tradition in Estonia as I have no mental image of what Estonian gardens or landscapes look like. (I'll have to do some googling...)

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I think there might have been a bit of "intellectual stuffiness" left over for me there woody, a surprising choice of words since we seem to be talking about emotions. Perhaps the discussion itself is philosophical and if someone is happy with "I Like it, I don't know why, I just like it" then who am I to argue with that? If anyone can decide in a snap what is good art and what not without having to think about it or talk about it obviously a discussion like this has no appeal.

    Timbu brings together some very useful thoughts that are neither pompous nor intellectually stuffy.

  • rhodium
    14 years ago

    Woody - nothing was directed at anybody on this post, despite all the hair triggers present here.

    It actually was a continuation of the non-parsely discussion that deals very much with emotion and gut reaction, in the viewing of a garden or art.

  • timbu
    14 years ago

    Woody, here's a little pic for you! Doesn't give a complete picture, but I didn't have many uploaded.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:7086}}

  • isabella__MA
    14 years ago

    Rhodium I understand what your getting at that because someone has knowledge doesn't mean their judgement is any better than anyone else's but at the same time experience and knowledge does help to appreciate something more. I don't think that's aloofness, but from a populist point of view it may be seen that way. You don't need the background to like it or not, but the background info does help to provide a richer context and experience.

    In contrast in science, we have to know the past work and experiments in order to move forward. When presenting a paper, it's mandatory to couch new work in the context of the prior work it's built upon and how this new paper moves science forward.

  • laag
    14 years ago

    What is the root word of "original"? I'm going to go with "origin".

    To act to make a garden, or anything else does not happen spontaneously. Motivation can come from any direction, but one way or another any concept is birthed by inspiration and inspiration is a result of reference. If a garden is a built part of the landscape, it is never and has never been 100% original.

    I think we confuse unique with original.

    Results are always unique to some degree, but origins were always there before.

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    14 years ago

    timbu - Thanks! Hmmm - looks like I should plant some rodgersia with my mockorange - I really like that combination... My mockorange never blooms that nicely though :-( Which variety are those ones?

    Interesting - aside from the red roof, the style of house and plantings would fit into a Canadian context easily. I did some looking around on the Internet too and that's one of the things that struck me - both the houses and landscapes often looked a lot like things one would see on the east coast of Canada where I'm from originally. DH was in Norway on business a number of years ago and that was my reaction to his pictures from there too - much of the landscape and arctitecture could have fit relatively seamlessly into the coastal areas of Atlantic Canada.

    On the issue of background etc. - Isabella sums it up nicely. Curiosity is one of my driving forces. For the things that interest me, I like to know as much about them as I can. I will go off on tangents, reading, visiting related places, take things apart (and hopefully put them back together! :-) etc., etc. For the things that interest me less, I'm usually never short on opinions on whether I like something or not, but it may be a less informed one!

    One of the things that interests me is why a person's garden looks the way it does so I'm always interested in hearing about what motivated/inspired them, what look they are trying to achieve etc. While I know that gardens don't interest everyone, when we were looking for this house - and ditto when we looked for our first one - I was surprised at how many 25-30+ year old houses we saw that had nothing in their yards but lawn and a few scruffy shrubs! Clearly those folks had no original gardens to inspire them. Sad....

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    In 'Modern Landscape Architecture: a critical review' Marc Treib writes this

    We are a society " bred not on primary experience but on the image, whether photography, film or video. This breeding has created a world in which novelty of image is paramount." Marc Trieb goes on to say "A landscape design that caters to this hunger for titillation instead of substance, the ephemeral rather than the permanent and for the cute instead of the significant, will be of less consequence than one based on the psychology and physiology of human beings, critical ecological factors and current thought in the arts."

    What do you think, do we refer to our own personal experience (as woody does) for inspiration or a secondary source, if the latter this may explain the cliche garden, mightn't it?

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    14 years ago

    It rather depends on what the secondary source(s) is. Personal experience for me has its roots in my garden of origin (the place in the picture I posted...) but my experience also includes gardens I have visited (including places like Sissinghurst and Bowood House in England - two places that greatly appealed to me for different reasons), gardens I have read about/seen in pictures and general reading about garden-related things. 'Titillation instead of substance' is perhaps a false dichotomy unless taken to extremes. Is my interest in/affection for a colorful, flowery garden in the sunny areas a seeking after titillation of some sort or does it have substance because it allows me to satisfy my interest in playing with color and structures and such? Someone who doesn't share my interest in such things will place my flowery garden areas on the negative (titillation) end of the spectrum while someone who shares my interests is more likely to see substance. So, such an either/or choice seems an over-simplification to me.

  • timbu
    14 years ago

    Treib has a point, but I wouldn't put it quite so tragically. When a person starts gardening, (s)he will gather some experience sooner or later. I do occasionally refer to pretty pictures, sometimes to gardens I've seen, and to my own experiences in nature and in gardening.
    I'll add one more picture of a garden near me, designed by a professional, for herself. She'd never plan this much maintenance into a client's garden - but in my opinion, the heavy-maintenance items are part of this garden's charm. When I look at this picture, I also ponder the suitability of pavers in my own garden (still undecided). And the rainwater pond sure is something I'd be happy to copy, if my setting had room for it.
    Woody, my mockorange is an old nameless variety of philadelphus coronarius, it doesn't get much pampering at all - maybe it likes poor, dry soil? The other white-blooming plant is aruncus dioicus (not rodgersia). The house is in the process of changing into a red house with green roof...

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:7087}}

  • nandina
    14 years ago

    Ink, I was yawning my way this this discourse until reading Marc Trieb's idea of using "...current thought in the arts" as inspiration. Suddenly my mind was flooded with missed opportunties during my generation. Picking up on that thought...

    Good Heavens! Forgotten was the opportunity to design an Andy Warhol large tomato soup can fountain. I can visualize it now surrounded by white roses.

    Working from Gramma Moses art would have been easy. Scatter the plants anywhere. Feature the house and family activities.

    Piccaso would have stymied me. Ditto Pollack. Norman Rockwell; white picket fence and American flag.

    Thinking further on the subject. I am not certain what today's art trend is nor do I think it is important to garden design. The site, the structure on the site, the planting zone are first and foremost the basis of a design. What happens from there depends on the interests and creativity of the owner and/or designer. Originality may never become a reality in the final design but if the owner says, "I like it", so be it.

  • laag
    14 years ago

    Jackson Pollack?

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    14 years ago

    timbu - poor, dry soil and no pampering is what my rockorange gets too but it's not liking it as much as yours! My aruncus are females and have much looser flowers that that. They are also a fair bit taller. The flowers in your picture looked more like some of my rodgersia flowers so I obviously mentally rearranged the leaves I was seeing to make them look like rodgersia! (I have poor vision... :-) I like E's garden and, once again, both the garden, the background landscape and the house would not be out of place in various locations in Canada! I would assume frost-heave would be an issue there...? Paver paths that start off nice and level like that tend to turn into an uneven mess after not-too-many of our winters!

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Isn't a Jackson Pollack inspired garden usually known as a cottage garden?

  • timbu
    14 years ago

    A conceptual art-inspired garden can be seen in the Dogville movie.

  • duluthinbloomz4
    14 years ago

    The Abstract Expressionist Movement and Jackson Pollock can be a bit bewildering. A friend who felt his intellectual gifts far eclipsed mine offered Pollock's greatest talent was in the picking of colors.

    Maybe there is something to the cottage garden...

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Touché duluth which is, I imagine, more or less what you said to him. Good thought.

  • nandina
    14 years ago

    Ink, I do not see Pollack as a 'cottage garden'. Thanks to a friend who owned four of his works I have often studied those up close and personal. Rather I see color and structure in the manner of Michelle's mosaic walkway or the Mexican tile projects done with every tile design in the factory, no two alike. To work out such designs and juxtapose plant structure requires custom products and, like most art projects, knowing when it is finished. On the other hand some may find Pollack useful in cottage garden design.

  • catkim
    14 years ago

    If popular film can inspire a garden, give me the landscape from Avatar! A garden that glows in the dark, yes!

  • inkognito
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Nandina: that was a joke. Splatter painting = plant it anywhere. Of course if we are dealing with the picking of colour as duluth suggests perhaps Pollack would be a good example.

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