The problem is that a 40 year old retaining wall around a 10' x 12' walk-out from our lower level is disintegrating. One crak has been joined by others. The deterioration of the concrete on the steps up to grade level had become more and more apparent. Now we've had the first estimate of several for all of the hardscape that needs renovating, including driveway, front door entry, path along house from front to back, back patio, short back sidewalk, steps down to this lower patio, and the walls of this pit.

This first person showed my husband more clearly what is happening to the retaining walls around this lower patio. Bad news.

We're not sure yet what the full estimate will be and others will be stopping by over the next few days. This will not be work we can easily afford, not by a long shot, but what we've done for this house before has been to find a way to genuinely make it better than it was. So I've got to get my head around the fact that this lower patio is going to be redone and, since that's a given, now is the time to make it better than it was.

So I'm sort of needing a quick course in retaining walls, concrete, decks, and patios. Structurally, what should we be listening for in the descriptions of how a contracter will go about this sort of project? The first has already said that the footing behind the walls was probably not done right, the seep holes don't seep water anymore, and then he added, "And some people don't do it any better now."

For those who don't know or don't remember, I am totally blind. If a picture would help, I'll try to get one, but that's not my strong suit.

Functionally, we are considering enlarging this patio. It's always been too small for any real use. Not enough room for even the smallest of tables and chairs to fit comfortably. Also, the steps have to have a rail -- that's where I broke my leg a couple of years ago. I haven't actually used these steps much since then.

Also, although it may turn out to be beyond our bank account, we are going to consider a deck over this area. Access-wise it's the space above this lower patio that is closest to the kitchen inside. If we did this, I could walk a few steps from the kitchen, without traversing any stairs, to an outdoor space. But, my husband has seen these decks that seem to float in air hanging off the backs of neighbors homes. Some just look too small to be useful, and all look a little odd to his eyes. What ought we to think about when considering a deck?

And, yes, I probably should have said earlier, this is a raised ranch sitting on a very flat lot. The house faces south. The walk-out / lower patio is on the back or north side of the house. The retaining walls are about 3.5 feet high or about a 1/2 basement depth below grade.

We have a new fixer home, and were not prepared for the estimate for repairing rotting wood decks! Our retaining walls are railroad ties, and they are fine! But the massive decks...

Since our property is on a hillside, concrete was not an option because nothing is flat. The biggest deck is on top of a lower driveway open garage. It is basically plywood covered with tarpaper and sealed with something. It wasn't done right, so now needs a complete re-do. The walkway out of the house and the steps up to that deck are also rotting, and the entire thing needs to be replaced.

The suggestion for the large pool deck was composite wood, but since only a few boards are rotting, we are going to rescue any good board from the ripped out decking path and just repair, buff, re-seal, and go on. All these fixes will cost $18,000!

Doesn't that make you happy?

From the kitchen, I walk straight out onto the pathway deck, that will be enlarged to accommodate a smoker and BBQ island. No stairs on that deck. It will have steps up to the big boat deck, and will join concrete prior to the steps down to the wood pool deck. I don't think it looks funny, but until it gets fixed, I fear for my life because not all the boards hold weight!

As for your stairs. Simple railing could prevent falls. Happily all our decks and stairs have wrought iron rails and fences.

Could you use a wide brick or flagstone border to increase the size of your concrete patio?

Good luck to you! Hope you get that railing!!

Suzi

Start with interviewing designers who have a strong portfolio of hardscaping.
Choose one landscape designer and have several preliminary concept drawings drafted.
Once you choose a master design the landscape designer will draft up the construction plans and then they get handed over to a structural engineer who then draws the structural detail and supplies the calculations .
The structural detail plans get attatched to the design plans and that plan set is given to 2 or 3 reputable building contractors to bid the job.
Because there is a master set with detailed specifications the contractors will be bidding on the same type of construction detailing. It will be an apples to apples bid.
These plans are also a legal document .
From there the plans are submitted to the building and planning department and are combed over with a fine tooth comb for code compliance and structural correctness.

It definitely can help if you have some knowledge about construction so that you understand what the structual engineer is recommending, but in reality, if you live in an area that requires a permits to build , your structural engineer will be designing the structural aspect of your walls , not the homeowner.

Spending large amounts of money on maintenance issues isn't nearly so much fun as spending money (usually smaller amounts) on exciting plants or fun amenities. But as you recognize, it is far more important. Solid foundations, walls, and well-built steps make the home and garden comfortable and easy to enjoy, so just bite the bullet and get it done.

Just to empathize... there is a lanai, or small raised deck off my little rainforest cottage in Hawaii. Rainforest = lots of water exposure, and sure enough, at the age of seven, the half-uncovered lanai was beginning to rot. Spongey wood risers, spongey deck surface on the exposed, wet section; not good! As with so many construction projects, it could have been done better the first time around, but wasn't. Luckily, a very skilled, retired neighbor is willing to earn some cash, and I can afford to provide better materials and construction this time around (redwood, and proper footings). We've also managed to extend the roofline enough so now one can sit comfortably on the lanai to enjoy a beer, even if it's raining down some of that Hawaiian liquid sunshine. That inexpensive bit of extra roof cover should greatly extend the useful life of the lanai, so it's a "win, win, win" situation.

Embrace the idea that once your maintenance project is properly constructed and paid for, you will be SO GLAD you did it. :-) Best of luck.

Michelle- Thank you for the quick review of process. That's what I needed.
Our home isn't much to right home about. Nice neighborhood, mid-range home in a cookie cutter housing development in downstate Illinois. It's a raised ranch with that "welcome to my garage" front.
All the work that needs to be done will add up to a hefty price tag--at least for us. I do read here a lot and always have paid attention to the wall / hardscape / driveway discussions. Keeping things on the plainest of plain approaches will shoot the heck out of $25,000. The bids on the driveway are all coming in pretty close to each other, averaging $7,000. And that's the easy part. The lower patio iz connected to the steps up to grade; The steps up to grade connected to the sidewalk; the sidewalk connected to the upper back patio; the upper back patio connected to a gravel mess and gravel path on the east side of the house; the gravel path connected to the driveway in front; the driveway in front connected to the always-too-skimpy concrete pad at the front entry . Throw in two flower beds - one in front, one in back, 9' x 20', each enclosed in current hardscape -- and you've got the basic pieces of this puzzle.

As to getting my husband to see the need for a designer? I have talked to him. Geez. I think his idea of a plan is just let's put concrete over it. It'll be up to me to figure out a how and a who on getting a plan. After reading here so much, I can't believe I forgot about the design part. Mental block, I guess, because I knew how it would go over with my husband in real time. So, that's my stress. Not the project, which will eventually be, I hope, something to enjoy, but the relational dynamic!
I'm holding on to the hope that at some point my husband will realise that this is too big to work by just talking out loud. I only sat in on one of the chats with a contracter. It was immediately clear that the discussion was ... um ... theoretical. We might do this. We might do that. Oh, remember the rail on those steps. What if we throw in a deck? That 10' x 12' space is awkwardly small. What'll happen if we make it bigger? Where are the exterior water faucets? What material ... Yep. Need a plan.
So ... my Twilight Zone episode: Woman reads forum threads on landscape design for years. Over and over again people write in and look for shortcut on landscape projects. These projects make or break the look of the home and the outdoor functionality, and they cost what they cost, but no one gets it that a plan is needed. Woman understands, but then wakes up one day and finds out she's married to one of those people who will plan to spend more than 10% of the property value on a project but plan to do it without a plan.
I'm now living in a Landscape Design forum thread!

Catkim- Oh, Kim, nice of you to say. Lanai? I've got lanai envy. My memories of Hawaii go back to my childhood. My dad worked for an Australian company and en famille we went back and forth through Hawaii several times. And Fiji. And Tahiti. And New Zealand. I love oceans and now live so far from their sound. My last Guide Dog died quite suddenly in November. I haven't yet scheduled to go to San Rafael to get the next ... but that'll be when I get my ocean proximity fix.

One major disadvantage of having the contractor "design" the project on the fly is that you will never be able to compare one bid to another. Each will offer different solutions that use different materials and dimensions. Picking one of those would be like an inexperienced cook preparing all the foods of a complex meal. You'd have no idea of its details and quality until it's served.

Back up, Sweetie, and take a pick of the whole back of the house. Yeah ... yeah ... get one of the pit, too. I know I'm your crazy mom, but do it anyway.

Oh. An easier one. The retaining wall is 3.5 ft tall. 12' out into the yard. 10' feet plus stairs going in the direction parallel to house. Then, of course, the steps up to grade, and then another shorter section of retaining wall back to the house. The lower patio is 10' x 12'. Oh. There's a drain in the center of this little walk out area. Steps are, apparently, not up to current code. They go up from patio at right angle, outer edge, to side walk. Sidewalk is 20' feet long leading to upper patio with garage access. That patio is 20' x 12'.
So lower patio, sidewalk, upper patio form border to a 20' x 9' planting border.