When we bought our home over 5 yrs ago the previous owner landscaped the front yard in this way. It's a bit over 13 ft long and about 5 ft wide. The rocky soil in this area makes it really tough to grow anything. The tree soaks up all of the water so nothing will grow around it.

I need help minimizing this area. It's just too big. Should I make a ring around the lamppost and the tree and sod the area in the middle?

I've got nothing against island beds, but sometimes where they're situated is the key. My bias runs towards trees bound by grass, not rings. If the grass in your photo hasn't been altered, looks like that does fine. I might be tempted to take out the bed and invest in a few rolls of sod. If you lean toward ringing things - perhaps a bed of some sort incorporating the lamp (I'm assuming this is your driveway entrance) would be more appealing.

Are you saying I should just puts ring around the lamppost and not Adium the tree? Also, why sod instead grass seed?

Also, when you go to trim the tree would you rather cut off branches that are 1" diameter... or ones that are 8" diameter? I'd quickly figure out the end result you are trying to grow and begin trimming now, rather than waiting until it's difficult or costly. Surely you don't want big branches that are waist height... which is what this tree has in mind.

There are plants that prefer poor rocky soil... is the grass really doing OK or is it a bit patchy?

Karin L

here is another angle from an older picture.
Yardvaark, I'm not sure what you mean by the edging and the white rocks. Sorry you completely lost me there.
But you are saying that I should make the diameter of the ring around the tree larger than the diameter of the ring around the lamppost?

Do I plant grass seed in the middle then?

The tree is a much larger object than the lamp post and deserves a larger bed than the lamp post. Also, the placement indicates the same.

When goes in between the tree and the lamppost then....grass seed?

I'm saying that the edging you currently have around the bed does not look bad (because it's set very low and because it's not glaring.) The white rocks on the other hand look like very carefully selected and placed litter to me. Not that there's not merit in that.

Yardvaark and anyone else who can help...
I added a bunch of more photos in the album. Pleae take a look at them.

Should I completely remove the white rocks around the house as well? They are white limestone rocks. That's going to be a pain in the you know what...unless someone can come haul them away.
What should I replace them with....the pavers that I have now?

Also, can anyone identify the red spring flower? I want to buy more of them, but I do not know what it is. The previous owner planted them.

So how much bigger of a circle should I make around the tree than around the lamppost?

designoline6
thanks for the picture, but all of that just looks too busy. Can you make me one with just the 2 rings aorund the tree and lamppost as Yardvaark described with no flowers or shrubs?

A general guide to size of the beds... at tree, 6-8'; @ lamp post, 2-4'. Mark these variable on the ground in some way, view them from different perspectives and make your decision based on what you see in real life, not words or diagrams.

Red flower is tulip. They are bulbs planted in the fall. Usually, they do not last over the long term and must be re-planted.

Thanks. Now my only other concern is how it will look in the middle between the rings after the grass seed is placed. Not sure if I should hire a pro to seed it properly. The grass on our yard now is considered Sod....so wouldn't that look weird? Sod for th entire yard and grass seed between the rings?

I also found free rings that you can buy. Good idea?

What you do here depends as much on personal style as it does on what will grow. For example, one thing you could do is get rid of the grass entirely in this area and make a spread of gravel or river rock with some larger boulders and just a few accent plants of the sort that like those arid growing conditions. I do not know what plants those are that are hardy for zone 5, mind you, but I'm sure there are some.

Here are some examples to give you the general idea of what I mean (from a Google image search for "gravel bed".
http://www.portersgarden.hampshire.org.uk/news.html
http://www.blooming-good-gardens.co.uk/index_files/monoliths.htm
http://www.onlinegravel.co.uk/gravel-gallery.htm

Another option would be to carpet the whole area with low-growing junipers - again, no grass. (Not the spiky or arching junipers, the really low ones). The base for the junipers could be either gravel or mulch. Eventually, they will form a solid carpet.

Here are just a couple of images from a Google image search for "carpet of junpiers."
http://www.sungardensinc.com/Southwest-Vines-and-Ground-Covers.html
http://www.gardenrant.com/my_weblog/2006/06/index.html

Both of these ideas could be done with enough consideration for the trees they that they would survive.

You could begin your planning by asking for advice about this kind of growing condition at your local nursery. They might advise you about what plant options you have to work with. That might give you some ideas. But I would bet junipers are one option. I think it would be my personal favourite. But that's partly because I don't like rings around things - lanterns, trees, houses - at all.

With either of these options, stone edging (separating it from the grass part of your yard) would look quite natural. In this case it would have to be high enough to keep gravel out of the grass.

Edging material, if you use it, is a matter of taste. The distance view, the near view, cost, ease of installation, and the ease of mowing around them all have to be considered. Not everyone likes mowing strips, and the tree rings may look tacky after a while. The option that perhaps almost everyone likes is bricks laid in the ground flush with the grass, but that is a bit of work.

I strongly agree with Yardvaark that you should begin to shape that tree now. Depending on what kind it is, it may be best to do this in fall, but start thinking about what eventual shape you want it to have.

Karin L
PS you have to consider falling leaves in your planning. They'd have to be blown off, probably, in either case. If you do gravel, it should be larger river rock without landscape fabric underneath, so that bits of leaves can fall through and decompose.

By shaping the tree do you mean cutting the branches completely off towards the bottom and trimming towards the middle?

So if I have 2 rings your saying put river rock in the middle instead of sod?

Don Engebretson, a national speaker, landscape designer and plantsman, tends to put things in his own way. His website is RenegadeGardener.com. Lots of cool stuff there for everyone, but especially for northern gardeners. I don't agree with everything he says, but it's a great resource.

And he does have very definite opinions about tree circles. The article I've linked is very sarcastic, wickedly pointed, and very clear about his basic objections to the usual outcome when people decide to put "tutus" around their trees.

No, a tree ring was not part of my ideas. Whatever you do can be done up to, or close to, the tree and lantern.

Regarding the tree, I can't see it that well, but my concern would be what Yardvaark said - no big branches at face level, and if it is developing twin leaders, I wonder if one should be removed. If you don't know what to do, it shouldn't cost too much to get an arborist to do it for you.

Karin L

Since I don't have that much knowledge to know how to fix this problem I would rather make this area smaller and look more attractive with what CAN grow there. Just need some help and ideas.

I do not yet know, for example, whether any grass grows well anywhere in this area or not, or if you are just talking about IN the flowerbed. In addition, I still can't see your photos so am relying on the one that yardvaark posted. I have seen your album before so I know there is not a problem with my computer.

So I can only tell you what I would do if it were my yard based on the limited amount I know now. I would shape the bed based on wherever your grass does not grow well. I would try to make it an attractive shape, which the current one is NOT.

And if I were you I think I would grow junipers. Flat, carpet junipers, probably all one kind. Mulch for now to kill the grass, and let the junipers eventually cover the mulch.

And if that is too boring, I would add a couple of really good-sized boulders. It would be fairly easy to get one really big one or a few smaller delivered to this area.

Flowers could be added with some annuals in summer in the ground or in containers. Containers could be nice focal points instead of boulders.

Karin L

Sorry I can only respond with the little knowledge that I do have. What shape would you recommend?

Once I know that, I or someone else can better recommend a shape.

I think you have shown a satellite view of your lot before. If that is in your album, can you check your album settings and link to allow me to get access to it? If you can draw on that, or describe the grass growth pattern, that would help.

I remember the limestone around the back, and I kind of like it and you must too, or you wouldn't have it. Sometimes it would look better just arranged differently. Let's see if you can make your pictures accessible, and see where we go from there.

Karin

the grass grows just fine everywhere.

try this link.

As the advice you'll get on line will vary greatly, it is your ultimate decision to evaluate the replies and select a solution that makes the most sense for you.

But also, if grass grows outside of where the bed is now, it means other plants might too. I think I would make a squarish bed that matches the shape of that part of the front yard. What you've done so far with bed shapes is to assume that the two items - the tree and the lamp - have to basically define the shape, but I think you have to free yourself up and the let the bed shape be something completely different - an approximate triangle or square.

It is a lot easier to let a bed like that come right to the sidewalk or driveway, as that becomes your edging, but it might look nicer to leave an apron of grass around the outside.

I would not edge this big a bed with limestone. I think it looks nice where you have it so far, but for a bigger bed it would be too much. If you do need an edge, try a trench edge that you cut with a flat spade.

As to the right things to grow in such a bed, that will change over time as the tree grows. You might get enough sun now for some things, but that may change in a few years. Siberian cypress, also called Microbiota, might do well now and continue to do OK once the tree grows up. Junipers might do well for quite a while too depending on the sun direction and the shape of the tree canopy (they tend to need more sun). Plant these shrubs further away from the tree trunk to give their roots a better chance to get established, and let them spread toward the tree.

Other than that you are looking for shrubs or perennials that are somewhat drought tolerant and like part sun - not full sun, not full shade. One of the toughest plants for these kinds of conditions are hellebores, and also, many ferns in the Dryopteris family. Many hostas are also amazingly tough, but not all of them. Go to a nursery where the staff know their plants, and talk to people there.

By the way I can see your pictures again, and that helped, thank you.

Karin L

As far as the design it sounds like I should make something towards the driveway.

I did not say you should get rid of the white rocks. Do you like them?

Regarding the sod, are you saying you want a change from grass, or that you want more of it but don't know how to grow it?

Karin L

As far as the sod I would want to make the are smaller and put down sod or grass seed around the tree, etc..... The original owner put sod down for the entire yard.

Also, there is nothing wrong with your plan to just make smaller beds around the lamp and the tree, except that the closer you are to the tree, the harder it is going to be to grow things, always. There is no logical reason to put a planting bed at that tree at all - or at the lantern for that matter. It is just what most people do because they can't think of anything else.

Maybe if you want more garden you can make a bed somewhere else in the yard. If you don't want more garden space, then just making it all grass is OK. If you make the bed close to the tree, whether it is round or square, it will always be hard to grow things.

Make that plan view diagram, and post it, and perhaps other people will offer some other ideas.

Karin L

Whether you sod or seed you'll have to take up the edging on that front bed. I don't know what bothers me about that other than the maxi-pad shape. So many things are personal preferences - if you like the rings, keep the rings. But to be a bit of a contrarian, I can't for the life of me see the use for the little ring around the tree in the boulevard. It's just one more thing to grass whip or hand clip around.

Your right about the maxi pad. Lol. What shape would you recommend ? That's where I need help.

I think if I had this yard I would put a bed in the open area of your yard on the side of the tree away from the driveway, where you have lots of open space and the soil might be better, extending as far into the side yard as you like. It depends on how much stuff you want to grow. Or does that part get used for soccer?

The curve of your sidewalk is nice and you could maybe replicate that in larger, or something to that effect. But I would not do a stone or paver edge on this one, since the bed shape need not be emphasized... if you put a nice selection of shrubs, both evergreen and deciduous, the plant material will get the attention.

Karin L

I think you could get some bigger rocks to add to those spaced ones, and create some really nice stone arrangements in those beds near the house, and maybe get rid of the maxi-pad bed altogether, just grass it over. It simply doesn't fit with anything, and it has no discernible purpose, especially if you can't find plants that will do well there.

If you want to add a bed anywhere, I don't know if you could do it in that huge blank area opposite the driveway (the soccer net on the side of the house suggests you might have soccer players who use that area?).

It is hard to use stone artistically on flat ground. Adding the word "flat" to the image search brought up this website with some good pictures of the use of rock: http://www.stevesnedeker.com/category/rocksboulders

But even though I prefer Yardvaark's picture to what you have now, I would just leave the tree to just grow out of grass, it will look best that way I think - and that will be the easiest to maintain, especially in the long run.

Karin L

Mind you in my climate this would be hard to maintain if trees are around, because our fallen leaves are almost always wet (sigh). But with dry days and a good shop vac, in a drier climate it wouldn't be so bad.

Karin L

I am actually to remove all of the white limestone rocks all together. I started to do that already. I may just do what your suggesting. Remove the front yard landscaping and just add grass seed....or should I add sod. The previous owner added sod 7 yrs ago so I don't know how the grass will look ultimately. I can move the knockout and flower carpet roses in a different area of our home. on the side or on the back.

No idea what plant removal advice to give in your climate, sorry. And maybe you could use the pavers to edge a different bed where you are removing your limestone. If they are next to grass, if you sink them in a little they would serve as a mowing strip, where the mower wheel can ride on.

Karin L

I am still working on ideas on what to do with the area by my lamppost and tree. As you will see in the picture the hostas that grow around the perimetere are starting to come up. I also have 3 knockout roses around the lamppost and 3 flower carpet roses in the middle.

Anyhow I am trying to figure out how to arrange the pavers here so it looks better. I may or may not have to put some grass seed down afterwards.