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amateur_expert

Lawns (or lack there of)

amateur_expert
17 years ago

I checked out this great book from the library about front yard gardens. It confirmed what I have always thought - lawns are expensive and time-consuming to maintain. I am ready to leave only a small circle of lawn in my front yard and landscape the rest. Has anybody done this and do you have any suggestions?

Comments (79)

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is a photo of my house when you look at it from across the street. Nothing can really compete with the birch trees so until those come out, the lawn or lawnless look is sort of irrelevant.

    {{gwi:22148}}

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is a good example of what probably should be a regional discussion. What are viable alternatives to lawn are going to depend on what can be grown in a certain region, and the viability of lawn itself is going to vary. There are all these statistics about how much water is wasted on lawns, yet I've never lived in a neighborhood where watering an established lawn wasn't considered anything other than wastefully weird. So from an environmental point of view, why it is better to remove the lawn that does fine without any water, and replace it with a garden that requires watering? This isn't a grassland ecosystem because it gets too much rain.

    The only thing I've seen in the east that truly seems to work as a lawn replacement is mature woodland. There is a lot of that around Philadelphia. It isn't a cheap replacement, because it requires regular arborist maintenance so the trees don't damage the house. (many, many people don't realize that) However, it works from an aesthetic point of view. A couple of times I've seen shaded yards that were a well designed collection of evergreen ground covers. Those are quite rare. As an idea, it probably has merit, but seems quite hard to pull off.

  • DebZone8
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We have a small lawn in the front because my husband insists. I'm gradually changing over from cottage garden to evergreens with perennials for year-round interest but the small green space in the middle does give the eye a rest.

    We have a lawn in the back because it covers the leachfield. I'd love to get rid of it or at least break it up--I'm just scared of angering the septic gods.

    Deb

    Here is a link that might be useful: Front lawn

  • pastvast
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree that the average American needs some lessons on proper lawn care that includes reading (and properly applying) the lawn care products that they buy. However, if you were to visit the lawn care forum, you would find lots of folks willing to share with you their organic methods for fertilizing and weed control. I find that the amount of work I've got to do maintaining my flower and vegetable beds is *much* greater than the lawn. It helps that I live along the Great Lakes which has a climate conducive to growing grass. And I'm way more aggressive in fighting the cucumber beetle invasion than I am of violets in the lawn. If I actually mowed the lawn (and not DH), then I'd have a non-gas push mower as I loved the sound of the whirring blades (before gas)!

    Onto the real reason for posting! Here's something that might help the OPer or give some inspiration:
    In the Garden Gate mag that arrived this afternoon, there was a little bit about a yard that had very little grass and lots of garden beds (pp32-35). That area was 70'x35'. Not knowing much about design, I can't pinpoint why it works, but to me it does. I think part of the reason is that the grass breaks up plantings so that there's still some order/tidiness to the area. I also like to poke around and check out plants up close... so the grass looks to be a great path (easier and cheaper than DIY hardscaping). The one thing that I really disliked (and it's a garden gate pet peeve) is that you can only guess what it looks like during winter.

    For those who hope that their gardens are more eco-friendly than lawns here's some things to contemplate:
    - plant natives (or cultivars of natives). They'll likely be more adapted to your climate than others, and if sited properly be more capable of fending for themselves
    - don't forget to have your own compost pile so that you don't have to buy/use fertilizers (if you do use them, read the label and apply according to instructions).
    - Choose plants that are resistant to common diseases and bugs so that you're not tempted to use any pesticides (if you do use them, read the label and apply according to instructions).


  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    laag: I'm sorry you havn't seen many of these front-yard gardens that look good. I've seen so many - which is what encourages me in my venture. I will concede that virtually every one has left a small swatch of grass. But, relative to the landscape, they are *small.*

  • laag
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No pictures?

  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Absolutely beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No, laag, I don't have pictures. It's a little early for me to go strolling about with my digital camera. *grin* I don't think I'd know how to post them up here anyway,lol.

    Here's something to consider: As was made obvious by another poster's hostility toward "cottage gardens," what looks good and what doesn't is really a matter of taste. I myself do not find vast expanses of lawn attractive. I do not understand the desire to have great big patches of green in front of every house in a neighborhood. I've noticed a trend in a lot of these neighborhoods toward huge island beds, expanded borders and foundation plantings, and yes - *gasp* - total removal of grass from the front yard. These houses tend to be much more appealing - when the design is good.

    Maybe that's the thing - it's *hard* to design a good front-yard garden for joe-schmoe with no design sense. There's a house across the street from my mom's that is a good example of a front-yard garden done wrong. But, IMO, when done right, WOW!

    Question for mad_gallica: When did you have a chance to travel the entire east looking at lawn replacements? Must have been a fun trip! ;)

  • accordian
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Debzone, gorgeous yard...and lawn! I tried to imagine that space with anything other than lawn there, groundcovers maybe, but I don't think anything beside lawn would give the contrast of simplicity and peace that complements your lush plantings so well. Also the shape of it is so interesting, it seems from the photo that you treated the lawn space the way some people treat beds, as a punctuation and focal point to a garden.

    Sometimes nothing can beat a nice bit of lawn. (From someone who thought she despised lawns until she had one!)

  • catkim
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Debzone8, thanks for posting the photo of your serene space. The small, deep green lawn acts almost like a cooling pool of water than can be walked on. I love your mixed paving also. You have a knack, I can see it in the tall leafy background and the small touches. Terrific garden!

    Melle sacto, also thanks for posting your photos. I think you've got a very good start there, and a combination that works well with your trees.

    DH has more than once suggested removing the front lawn and putting in a succulent garden, but we have large trees that seasonally drop leaves --masses of leaves-- and raking leaves from delicate succulents just won't work.

    Due to slopes and foreshortened front gardens in my neighborhood, you see many front gardens sans lawn. The level of success varies, of course, but the key is they are generally *small*.

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You are not talking about me are you? Hostile? It is just too often I see the term "cottage garden" used to justify lack of design. I love a well done cottage garden, even if it is not the overall style that I want for my landscape. Check out the link below for a wonderful example...I don't see many blades of grass there.

    Deb: Wow! There is just something about the plantings that are so beautiful.

    So what is the formula for a successful grassless front yard garden of more than, say, 1500 sq ft? It seems hard to pull off without a number of evergreen plants and hardscape items to give structure. (it is probably the same formula as a backyard garden...not that a formula actually exists)

    - Brent

    Here is a link that might be useful: Chelsea Pensioners Garden

  • vicki_ca
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think MadGallica hit the nail on the head when s/he said this should probably be looked at as a regional issue. Here in the west, where we literally get no rainfall for a good six months out of the year, yards without lawns are not as unusual as they may be in other places. Instead of lawns, drought tolerant natives and Mediterranean plants are put in. Some of Mich_in_zonal_denial's photos were good examples of that.

    Cambria, CA is a small town on the central coast of California where there are very strict controls on water usage. Homeowners in Cambria have done a fabulous of job of putting in drought tolerant gardens requiring little to no water other than the normal rainfall that occurs during about 5 months each year. I was just there last week, and if I had anticipated this thread, I would have taken a few pictures. This is the only example I have from Cambria, and it is not what I consider to be one of the better examples. I only took this photo because I was interested in the matilija poppies growing there.
    {{gwi:22150}}
    I realize this probably looks odd or ugly to people living in other parts of the country, but just try to imagine block after block of homes that are landscaped in a similar style with naturalistic drifts of native and drought loving plants. You also need to realize that the winds, lean soil, and spray of salt water (ocean water) is not very hospitable to much else. In that little coastal village, manicured lawns, boxwoods and yews would look as out of place as this yard would look if it were smacked down in the middle of Connecticut or Georgia.

    I don't typically go around photographing other people's landscaping unless there is an idea I want to borrow. I have noticed that houses built during the last 10 years or so in my town are frequently landscaped with little to no lawn. The picture below is an example of that. This landscaping was only about 3 years old when I took the picture. That little strip of grass near the sidewalk was not planted by the homeowner; it and the young tree belongs to the city.
    {{gwi:22152}}

    The former owner of my home traveled extensively for his work and pleasure, so he planted low maintenance, drought tolerant groundcover instead of a lawn. I think it provides a similar purpose as a lawn -- a restful patch of green separating areas of evergreens and perennials. Funny thing is, I have no digital pictures that show my entire front yard. I do have this one from a few years ago. It shows about 1/4 of my front yard in the foreground. You see vinca minor groundcover instead of grass. In the far background you get a glimpse of some lawn, but that belongs to my neighbor. That is also my neighbor's house in the background. BTW, that ugly wine barrel planter has since been removed. I have no idea what I was thinking when I bought three of those things and placed them in my front yard!

    Vinca Minor instead of grass:
    {{gwi:22154}}

    I love Jkom's yard. I've seen her other photos too, and I think she has successfully planted a no lawn yard that is far more interesting than many similar bungalows I have seen in the city where I think she lives. Her neighboring town of Berkeley also has many excellent examples of no lawn landscaping, many of which are planted with drought tolerant selections that look very lush in that environment.

    Debzon8's front yard is gorgeous in my opinion. It is a good example of how a small patch of perfectly manicured lawn can be used to offset other plantings. Well done, Deb! Care to come and do my yard next?

    So you see, no lawn landscaping does not need to mean messy cottage gardens that were not thought out enough to provide year-round interest. Nor does it need to mean high maintenance, water greedy, over fertilized flower gardens. And, finally, no lawn yards can be ecologically sensitive as well as beautiful. But, as the old expression goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Have I posted enough pictures for you, Andrew?

  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry, brent. I guess I mis-read what you were saying. You weren't saying you don't like cottage gardens, rather that you don't like a lack of design that's called a "cottage garden"- correct? My sincerest apologies. And, I agree... I don't like lack of design either.

    To me, my front yard seems small, but I don't know specifically about the square footage. Maybe when I take out the towering and very full holly, it will look bigger.

    I wouldn't really know what the "formula" is. I just do what looks and feels right to me - but I think I have an innate sense of design. I'm interested to see if someone does have a specific formula.

  • vicki_ca
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    >>>So what is the formula for a successful grassless front yard garden of more than, say, 1500 sq ft?Brent,

    If I didn't live in the land of small lots (California) and instead made my home in the land of large lots and plentiful water, I would also have much more space dedicated to traditional lawn than I do now. I would probably hire a mow and blow crew to take care of it too, leaving the more fun gardening tasks to myself. I do think traditional lawns can be attractive and park-like. They are just not practical for everyone... back to the idea of regional/environmental differences.

    The thing that I find disturbing about massive lawns is not the lawns themselves. Rather, it is the lack of little else. I have seen so many homes with a dinky little 2 foot border of foundation plantings, vast areas of lawn, a few tree circles (ugh!), and a single little flower bed around the mail box or at the end of the driveway. I just don't see the beauty of that. Oops! Now I am probably angering the tree circle and mail box planter gods.

  • avia
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    1500 square feet?

    It rather depends, doesn't it? If that 1500 is a ten-foot wide strip 150 feet long, then I wouldn't even consider a lawn. If it were a square plot, on the other hand, then I might well do.

    The regional aspect is vital here, though, I think, as is the urban/rural divide. Like Vicki, I live in a land of small lots and summer droughts. 150 x 10 plots are not all that uncommon in my neighborhood - that's actually a very common layout for the larger houses built on corner lots around here: a narrow side yard 150' long, and nothing much else except for a service alley in the back - but for the most part, no one in my neighborhood has that much raw space.

  • mjsee
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My front yard is MOSTLY beds and hardscape--with two small patches of lawn. I flatter myself and think it looks good most of the year--but then, we can grow stuff 9-10 months out of most years. I don't have any pictures of my garden this year (the digital camera is at college witht it's owner) but here are two from 2004, taken from my front stoop:
    {{gwi:22156}}
    {{gwi:22158}}

    Most of the phlox in the top picture has been ripped out--and I've eliminated most of the cleome.

    I think what makes MY garden work are the evergreens, the evergreen perennials, and the judicial use of annuals to "fill in holes." And the fact that we can plant pansies in October in NC.

    melanie

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The very handsome stone work does not hurt either.

    - Brent

  • laag
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, Vicki, you can keep the first haunted house (I bet there is a lawn behind that planting), the second one is beautiful (what can you do in it?), and the third is a small area that I often use the same technique on (is that grass I see to the right?).

    All kidding aside. These can be done well, but more often than not they are not. Usually it is a sea of mulch (or more likely wood chips) with haphazard plantings all throughout and maybe a few "found objects". Many tend to look like a bunch of neighborhood kids took over an abandoned house by raiding the compost heap behind the local nursery,tying up branches and vines to make "garden art", and letting the local arborist dump off his chips.

    Think of drought tolerant fields rather than the perfect lawn. I think the golf course image comes up in some people's heads at the mention of grass. In other people's minds the he!! stories of excessive fertilizers and pesticides apply to all grass, not just the ones that actually receive these things.

    It is a big issue with me because I have to deal with regulators who are applying these notions and values on everyone whether or not they want to have an award winning lawn or a reasonable piece of versatile open space that does not resemble a piece of toast after July. The assumption is that the grass delivers the excess nitrogen not the owner.

  • vicki_ca
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    >>>Well, Vicki, you can keep the first haunted house (I bet there is a lawn behind that planting), the second one is beautiful (what can you do in it?), and the third is a small area that I often use the same technique on (is that grass I see to the right?).:-) I kind of expected that, Laag. I'm only surprised that a few more people didn't chime in about the haunted house, which has to look very foreign to Eastern U.S. eyes. There is no lawn behind the planting. I've walked around that house. There are many properties like that in Cambria, and most of them are better done with little to no lawn. Believe it or not, that house would sell for well in excess of one million dollars, because it is about 1/2 block from the ocean and Moonstone Beach, with views to die for. As they say in real estate... location, location, location.

    What can you do in the second house? Sit beside the fountain in the front courtyard, BBQ in the back yard, sit in the hot tub, sunbath in the buff behind the privacy fence, and send your kids and dog across the street to play in the large neighborhood park. That small yard is typical of new suburban developments in my part of the state. That house is located in a sought after neighborhood where prices start at around $1.3 million. Again, it's the land that drives the value. With prices like that, who can afford a real yard?

    As I explained above, that little glimpse of lawn you see in the third picture belongs to my neighbor. He has the mow and blow guys come and keep it in golf course condition. I weed and trim the edges of my vinca minor ground cover every two months or so. [And as a reminder, that gawdawful wine barrel planter is now GONE!]

    I am going back to the central coast in about 3 weeks, and if this thread is still active then, I will put post pics of better examples than picture # 1.

    And yes, I know your questions were rhetorical, but I couldn't help but respond anyway.

  • maro
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I saved these from magazines once upon a time. I still would like to have the second one, in concept, with PNW plants. Conifers could do it!

    {{gwi:22160}}

    {{gwi:22162}}

  • laag
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Some of this is tongue in cheek. It is really good things for us to think about. These are not easy projects and take quite a lot of foresight.

    The "haunted house" is really a good composition that not a lot of people are going to successfully pull off. I can't help having a little fun sometimes. Humor does not translate so well over the internet, I've learned.

    Lawnless is an area that seems to often attract people who can not handle having that one hand tied behind their backs. That is really the major point that I'm trying to make. It is more difficult to do this successfully because takes away a very powerful element that also has a very powerful edge and holds very useful space.

    The second point is that not all grass is bad .... what would we do if the park across the street went lawnless?

    Geese wouldn't migrate. I like geese. Park lawn good.

  • diggingthedirt
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    melle_sacto, can you please resize your photos so we can read this thread? Just resize the originals and overwrite the ones on photobucket. About 450 pixels width would work.
    TiA, DtD

  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    laag -
    It seems to me you feel the need to defend lawns from an all-or-nothing standpoint. Lawns, like drugs in childbirth, have their place. It depends completely on the desires and needs of the family and the role of the yard. It's good that the parks have lawns but that doesn't mean that I have to have a lawn, does it? Just because some people have/need/want lawns doesn't mean I have to, does it? Neither by going lawnless am I making a statement about grass in general or judging people who have lawns.

    You *seem*- and I understand that you are trying to be humerous sometimes - to be just like all the women I meet who scream at me, "you are so crazy... why would anybody want to have a baby without drugs?"

    In any case, this has been fun.... I do hope you understand that, for me, this is not about trying to eradicate lawns in the world, but rather I was just trying to get some advice about how to eradicate MY lawn and have it look good. : )

  • mjsee
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I will say this--if you adopt the "if it's green I mow it" mantra--and refrain from fertilizing and watering--lawns ARE easier-care than gardens. WAAAAAAY easier. Unless we are having an extremely damp summer (hasn't happened in the nine years i've lived in this house)--we don't need to mow our backyard more than once a week--and in dry years that turns into once or twice a MONTH. It takes all of an hour to mow the backyard--with a mulching pushmower.

    melanie

  • vicki_ca
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amateur_Expert,

    Please don't take all of the remarks made here personally. This has been an interesting discussion so far, and I thank you for starting it. The discussion has moved beyond your initial question, but I think you have seen or read about examples where small lawns work very well, so I say, go for it! Small lawns (or lawnless) can be beautiful - but not to everyone. I would just echo what Avia said in the third post above. In your hardiness zone, there is no reason why your front yard cannot have curb appeal 12 months of the year, with or without a lawn. It will just take good planning, but isn't that true of almost any yard? And I do agree with those who have said that lawnless (or very small lawn) can be harder to pull of well, than those who have the room for an inclination to maintain a large lawn.

    I do like lawns, and like you, I wanted to have a small one. I have a 1/4 acre lot, which is considered large for my area. Sheesh, in my 30 year old neighborhood the neighbor's house wall begins an entire 20 feet away from my own house wall! [In newer neighborhoods, houses are closer]. Now, that is not 1/4 acre of landscaping. That area also is taken up by the footprint of my house and garage, a wide 3 car driveway, large decks, swimming pool, service area (one side), and some unplantable areas due to an extreme downslope. Although the pictures in my profile only show the tiniest glimpse of the 25x30 foot lawn in my backyard, I do love that emerald green carpet. Every year I threaten to remove that lawn and plant a potager garden with a mix of ornamentals and vegetables, but I doubt that I will ever do it, because as I said, I like that one patch of lawn. I live in an area where you can't garden without considering the high cost of watering, but my roses actually consume more water than my small lawn. Fortunately, much of the rest of my landscaping is drought tolerant.

  • melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For the readers:
    I went ahead and removed my pics; I think I misunderstood Laag's intial request for photos and I don't think my yard qualifies as inspirational at this point :-)

    Amateur_Expert:
    I had my son, 15 months old now, without drugs, without an IV, without any of the usual stuff the hospitals want to do. I know what you mean about people thinking you're crazy. They say the same thing about my lawnless front yard (and as it is incomplete and doesn't represent the "vision" in my mind at this point, I can see where they're coming from). You should see where following your heart takes you, learn from your mistakes. and keep smiling. Also, try the Cottage Gardens forum.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Link to Cottage Gardens

  • avia
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm feeling a bit obtuse because I'm not sure I get the "haunted house" reference. Was it the pale ("ghostly") palatte that caused that response? Anyway, I found it exceptionally appealing, and was quite surprised when Vicki suggested that it might look odd or ugly to people from the East. And here I was, suspecting that my fondness for those sorts of drought-tolerant gardens was probably *because* I'm originally from the East - you know, one of those "grass is always greener" (or, er, less green, as the case may be) attraction to the exotic phenomena? Guess that's not a universal response, huh? Oh well. Another trite pop psychology conviction of mine bites the dust. It's probably very good for me. :-)

  • Embothrium
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A scene with lots of warmly colored elements, desert climate associations may appeal here because of our dismal winters. Not entirely foreign to this area, either, our summers our dry and many native plants drought-adapted. Sunny bedrock outcroppings and other comparatively hot sites actually support native growths of manzanitas, bulbs and in some places even cacti.

  • annebert
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A month ago I was in Palm Springs and managed to spend quite a bit of time walking through residential neighborhoods. I was struck by the beauty of yards landscaped with gravel, aloes, cactus and other desert plants, and the silliness of emerald green lawns (with sprinklers running constantly) _outside_ the garden walls. It seemed to me that the only purpose of some of these lawns was to say "look, I can afford to water a lawn!".

  • joepyeweed
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think there are misconceptions about grass and lawns. A lawn can be anything that a person wants.

    The biggest problem with turf grass is how people maintain it.

    Somewhere along the line it became desirbable for turf lawns to look like a golf course green - the monocultural carpet .... and maintaining that carpet in about 2/3 of the US is not very good for the environment. That carpet is nothing like the grass that would grow in nature.

    The anti-lawn movement is about making yards more like a natural meadow and less like a golf course green.

  • Embothrium
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    >It seemed to me that the only purpose of some of these lawns was to say "look, I can afford to water a lawn!".Supposedly the lawn began with feudal nobles making serfs hand cut around their castles so it looked like they had large herds of livestock, these being a more valued commodity than serfs.

  • accordian
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The haunted house looks a bit to me like the "Psycho" house, the Bates Motel, I think. Maybe it's the camera angle but certainly not the plantings.

    I couldn't pass a kidney stone without morphine so I'm in awe of anyone who could have a baby without any...er...assistance.

    I personally am beginning to see there are three types of lawn that appeal to me. First the small pocket-lawns like the beautiful ones that DebZone and Mjsee have that act as punctuation marks for the plantings around them. Second, the rolling parklike lawns that vicki lusts after (love your lawnless spot too though). And finally, the praire-like grass plantings that laag has mentioned work well if they have enough scope.

    It's the mid-size lawn with foundation planting that holds no appeal. Interestingly it is also the mid-size lawnless yards I've seen that look just terrible too. Maybe successful lawns or lack of them are all about scale? Small or large = successful, mid-size = a mess.

  • dalepar
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WOW, what a great discussion. I am a newbie, as I just discovered this site. But even a newbie can add their 2 pennies worth.

    We live in an area that has had several years of drought. Some covenants mandated that the front must be mostly lawn. Well, with the watering restrictions and increased cost, many people are doing away with front lawns. I am very impressed with a neighbor of mine on a fairly large corner lot. She removed all of the lawn at the corner. She has a mix of spring bulbs, ornamental grass, Xeriscape perennials, shrubs, and a stone path to a sitting area in the center of it all. It is beautiful, and last year won "yard of the year" for our neighborhood. Yes, the first year it was a little too much mulch. Now that the shrubs and perennials are filling in, it is very nice. She has included some ground cover plants for interest around the stones, etc.. The whole thing is watered very sparingly through an automatic drip and mist system.

    I feel that with a mix of native plants and some hardscaping that a very low maintenance yard can be had. I am against using too much cloth barrier in landscaping, as then I cannot plant new things where I want without cutting the barrier.

    Oh yes, my disclaimer, I am not a professional.

    D in Denver

  • inkognito
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Boy, this thread has been a sensayuma test for sure. According to any research I believe in we humans still like to see the enemy coming and an elevated position with a stretch of flat savannah is favourite. A lawn may only be distantly reminiscent but perhaps that is what it represents rather than the "look at me I can afford a non productive space around my farmhouse".

  • Embothrium
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Of course: it's called the Savannah Mentality. Thus the pastoral landscape in public parks: trees with grass. Even where parks have shrubberies these may eventually be brutalized, so as to increase visibility (thickets hide lions, hobos and muggers). And topping and limbing up of all manner of trees, to make them into parasol acacias--regardless of their natural shapes. The yen for the flowerless lawn might even have something to do with the mostly grass-dominated savannah.

  • diggingthedirt
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When a house is surrounded mostly by lawn, the design is easily appreciated from the street; it's designed mainly for "curb appeal." The design of a garden surrounding a house is best appreciated while you are IN that garden and/or that house.

    That may be one reason there are not lots of great pictures of sucessful front (nearly lawnless) gardens.

  • Embothrium
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Seattle now has plenty of "plant nut" gardens that spill out into the parking strip in front, much enhancing the pedestrian experience.

  • deebs43
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Below is a view into our backyard. No yard, just a grassy path wandering through the perennial garden (looks like mulch in this year-old photo...have done many plantings since). Will have view of front soon--have a semi-circular lawn area with curving, deep (>15 ft) foundation and driveway border beds.

    Just posting this as one option...use of grass as a living walkway that helps define the beds and borders, but isn't a traditional "lawn."

    {{gwi:22164}}

  • rusty_blackhaw
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing some gardeners are reluctant to face (and this has included me) is that substandard lawns detract from the overall appearance of the landscape. For those who compare gardens to interior design, it's like having expensive artwork and furniture along with a rug marred by pet hair and cigarette burns. I see this effect in a surprising number of photos in garden magazines - beautiful plantings suffering from the distraction of semi-seedy surrounding lawn.
    It makes sense to downsize the lawn areas to something that can easily be maintained in top condition. This is a long-term project for our front yard, currently a major source of dandelion greens for the Italian salad market and a source of embarassment for a certain member of my household who is not quite as committed to a non-chemical lawn.

    I hope deebs is satisfied with that walkway over time (as the grass grows out over the rest of the walkway and constantly has to be whacked back) and never needs to shovel snow off it (the joys of embedding the shovel in turf and coming to a sudden stop, plus leaving little dirt turds to decorate the freshly fallen snow is a vivid childhood memory - we had turf and moss growing in gaps in our front slate walk).

    Going lawnless makes an enormous amount of sense for arid climates (the desert Southwest, southern California etc.) and it's past time for governments to encourage homeowners to find alternatives.

  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! I had no idea when I started this thread that it would take on such a life of its own - but this is fun! I respect the opinions of everyone and am getting an eye-opening look at the varied opinions of lawns that exist out there.

    I think it is absolutely possible to design a garden that has both house and curb appeal. One of the great things about front yard gardens (done right) are the pleasure that is shared with the passers-by. It's like a great big beautiful Christmas-lights display that people go out of their way to see. It says "please stop and stand and enjoy for awhile." It also says "I am friendly."

    Some things that I am thinking about in my design for my front yard: I have changed the place I was originally going to put my new Black Lace Sambucus so that it is more easily seen from the sidewalk - why should I be the only one to enjoy it's beauty? I am not putting anything tall that attracts bees by my mailbox - why should the lady who delivers my mail have to have bees flying around her face? I am moving my walkway so that it is more accessible and user-friendly.

    accordian: I train people how to handle the *pain* associated with childbirth. When you are prepared, it is much more like the pain of a good workout (maybe a good days worth of heavy-duty yard work *grin*). The pain has purpose, unlike the pain of kidney stones. Funny thing, my husband had his first kidney stone the week I was due to have my son - he passed it the day I delivered my son : )
    My front yard I would say is mid-size so I guess by your formula, I could do ok! We often say we were in labor together!

    deebs: love your yard! can't wait to see new pictures and the front too. I was also thinking about what eric said - we've been debating about growing *green stuff* in between sections of the walkway. My husband's big issue is the shoveling.

    I agree with eric's comments about substandard lawns. You can't have a gorgeous garden surrounding an ugly lawn. I don't need golf-course green, but I do want it to be nice.

  • joepyeweed
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
  • jeremy_b
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great thread! I'm glad people are realizing that the "high maintenance lawn" issue just doesn't apply to an awful lot of folks. As long as it's mowed, they're happy. Just a small ommision to the discussion; no one has pointed out the air pollution associated with gas powered mowers. So unless people are using electric or human powered mowers, their lawn do contribute some environmental damage. Thats the best argument for a small lawn.

  • barefootinct
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "You can't have a gorgeous garden surrounding an ugly lawn."

    Man, this is my problem. I have these beautiful (to me) flower beds and our lawns (front and back) are just awful. Grubs destroyed them and also I don't believe in watering my grass because I'm on a well;I save any "extra" watering for my plants and shrubs. Also, I only do organic. Plus our lawns get a lot of use. So, every year I am annoyed by the back drop these lawns create for my gardens.

    The problem is I have two athletic children and husband who need the lawn for baseball, football, lacrosse and hitting golf balls. The lawn is necessary to them for recreation.

    I don't have a good solution except to try and "naturalize" where I can, use ground cover where I can and let the rest be an open, imperfect play space for my family.
    Patty

  • deebs43
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We didn't shovel this first winter. The flagstone path gets full south sun all day, so the stones warmed up nicely and melted the snow. We have other ways to get into the backyard in the winter, so if the snow got too deep we just didn't go that way.

    We have a similar pathway, but *much* shorter, in the front yard. It too is not the only pathway into the yard. Options are good. Gives a sense of choice and mystery.

  • laurelin
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very interesting thread! My husband and I have debated going lawnless in the front yard. Each year the flower beds grow and the lawn shrinks, but we seem to have reached a status quo between borders and turf this year. The area to mow is small, but enough to accent the borders. I garden organically, and can keep on top of the front lawn with little trouble. (The back yard loses more turf each year, but again we have reached some equilibrium between garden and grass, and left room for the kids to play.) I like the accent an area of grass can provide for a planted area; I just refuse to baby the grass or get obsessed about it. Clover and violets are okay. (Creeping charlie is a major pain the behind - but level golf-green perfection was never my goal, so I wage war on the CC on a small scale, and figure that anything else that's green and gets mowed is de facto "lawn.")

    I don't mind the higher maintenance needs of my shrubs and perennials - it's my hobby, my escape, my relaxation, so if the yard needs attention for a half dozen hours per week, I'm more than happy to indulge myself with that "work." Sometimes "work" is in the eye (and wallet) of the beholder. But going with reduced (or maybe eventually no) lawn is not really a maintenance or money issue for us. It's mostly an aesthetic one, and tied to my desire to garden organically.

    I have used turf as paths in a couple areas of my yard, and been very pleased with the results.

    I suppose a good question to ask is, "How do I want to spend my time and money in my front yard?" Is a front lawn of X size (or any size at all) worth it to me? And that is a very personal decision, totally aside from design issues and style preferences. Amateur_expert, I think you could have a VERY nice front yard with very little or no lawn. ANYONE could, with a bit of planning, ingenuity, and imagination.

    I suppose my two cents of advise would be to look at your front yard from many angles before and during the changes you decide to make: from inside the house looking out, from inside the yard itself, and from the outside approach (sidewalk, street, and/or driveway). Each view will give you ideas of what you could accent, hide or change
    in and around your yard.

    Laurel

  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the advice Laurel! I went out yesterday with my "plan" sheet (a *very* rough drawing that simply says where the shrubs will be, etc.) and walked the whole area. I walked down the city sidewalk and stopped every few feet and turned to look - what will I see, what views will be blocked? Then I would continue on. I walked up my driveway, I walked the planned path for the new sidewalk that will go to my door. I pretended I was the mail lady and thought about where the mailbox should be moved to. My neighbors I'm sure thought I was crazy, walking up and down, staring at plants that weren't there and muttering to myself. LOL. Oh well, hopefully they will love it when I'm done.

    Interestingly, as I have been working dilligently in my gardens, some of my neighbors seem to have begun more work in theirs. And a neighbor across the street who has not spoken to us since they moved in last year said hi and waved as my husband and I were outside ripping out bushes. That's what I love about gardening in the front yard - it is just friendly and it invites people who might not otherwise venture to speak to you to be more friendly. Americans are so to themselves and busy. If I am gardening out front - in a way that is not just having to have my foundation planted - it is a big statement to the neighborhood, IMO.

  • accordian
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just to clarify two points:

    1. There is definitely a purpose to passing a kidney stone. It is gone and that is purpose enough for me.

    2. I meant that mid-size spaces, either with lawn or without, in my opinion, are the hardest to pull-off as they lack either the intimacy of small spaces or the scope of large ones. The mid-sized spaces provided by the average suburban lot come off looking either sterile (shrubs at the foundation of the house and lawn to the curb) or, in the case of lots where the homeowneer has attempted to go lawnless, like an unpleasant mass of weedy stuff and junk that'll make the neighbors itchy. The successful non-traditional lawns pictured above either use intimacy or scope to wonderful effect. That's not to say you can't create small spaces within a mid-size property to use either lawn or ground cover to look fabulous but I think it's more work, conceptually at least. To give a feeling of park-like or savannah-like scope to a mid-size lot would be even harder, but I suppose you might be able to "borrow" a view to give a feeling of expansiveness if you are lucky enough to have one.

  • amateur_expert
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    accordian:

    There is absolutely a purpose to passing a kidney stone. It's the pain that has no purpose, except to say "hey, there's a problem here that needs fixing." LOL. In childbirth, the pain is not an indicator of a problem. It is something you work with to achieve a good, healthy outcome, not something that should be avoided. In fact, trying to get rid of the pain actually throws a wrench into the process and very often leads to complications : )

    I am lucky to have a view out my front window of the mountains. The view belies the fact that right behind the houses across the street is a major highway filled with strip malls and fast-food joints. I can pretend I am in the mountains, if I close my ears to the traffic sounds and don't breathe in the greasy air. Unfortunately, from the ground outside, you can't really see the mountains b/c of the angle, the view is blocked by the other houses. All around the view is only boring lawns, and the same couple of trees in front of every house. So I can't really borrow a view, lol. But hopefully my lot is small enough to achieve the intimacy you speak of. Now that this thread has been going on, I think I will post my progress, including pictures - if I can just figure out how to do it easily.

  • joepyeweed
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "like an unpleasant mass of weedy stuff and junk that'll make the neighbors itchy"

    Alright, who is planting poison ivy in their lawnless yard!!!!

    amatuer expert - chech out photobucket or shutterfly for posting your pics.

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It seems like there has been some recent discussion about alternatives to the typical lawn and foundation planting design. This thread seems to have some good discussion and examples on the topic.

    - Brent