OK, the plants in front of the fence are not going in there, I just put them for some scale. Inkognito, we chose the home because of what's on the inside not outside. Outside was a bonus.

"Inkognito, we chose the home because of what's on the inside not outside." You know what I mean though eh?

In spite of the negative comments that keep flowing, DIY GUY (I hope your skin is toughening) I have a hunch that all will end without any pitchforks and burning crosses in your neighborhood. I see progress. Not sure what you'll do with the remaining posts that stick up, but for sure I'd cut off the center one.

Here's two more landscaping rules I'll share: 1) do not mix/alternate plants and 2) avoid planting "lines"... plant beds instead. (which means give the planting a little depth...2 rows are better than one here. Three might be better than two. One looks skimpy.)

Suggested door changes are all a disaster to me - the existing colour is better. Sorry, Woody, the tones are all wrong and in my opinion a dark door is never an improvement over a light one.

If you ever put colour on the house, I think the trim would be a place to consider, but seriously, I would hire a consultant to help you pick colours, or get the paint shop's experts involved. There is something so perfect about the way it is now that it would be tricky to get the same harmonious appearance with new colours. There is co-ordinating with the roof colour to consider, above all, since so much of it is seen.

You know, DIY GUY, one reason we are all freaking out is that at least 75% of the questions here are people with fundamentally ugly houses asking how to make them look better. Then we finally get a question from someone with a beautiful house, and you seem unconscious of its beauty!

You've made a huge improvement with the loss of the pickets and also the addition of the bed and plants outside has helped amazingly.

Karin L

@yardvaark, i have a thick skin indeed. Ive incoporated what i thought was helpful. I got rid of edgers yesterday, took them back to menards for a full refund. Printed my receipt there, did i mention menards was awesome? I bouught some wood; two1x4x12 and two 1x8x12. Im gonna see how they fit once i cut down the posts. I dont think they look right with the rest of the fence being that low.

What do u think of sloping the fence cap kind of like the roof line?

@karin im aware of its beauty, but function is also is important. Thanks for the compliments

"What do u think of sloping the fence cap kind of like the roof line?" My answer would depend on exactly how it was done and presented itself. Oftentimes caps of walls and fences are sloped to facilitate the drainage of water, prevent their use as seating or as places to set things. It probably won't be important to match the roof slope, but I would mock up and appraise whatever you're considering. That's the best way to see how it will look.

I'm in complete agreement with Karin on door colors. The original looks best.

A little detour on door color... :-) While I find the colors for DIY's house pleasing and serene and wouldn't want to change them, I find the white door bland, fading into the background too much. The color to use for the doors was an issue here when we renovated this place. The front and garage doors arrived and were installed just primed in white. With the yellow stucco and white trim, the doors just sort of vanished and somehow made the house look smaller. DH and the contractor wanted to leave them white but I insisted on black. That draws your attention immediately to the doors and makes for a much more vivid and vibrant look IMO (...think 'bumblebee"...:- )

I think DIY's house has a similar issue. The dark burguny color in the mock-up I preferred is a cool red which fits comfortably with the cool gray tone of the house, but is rich and intensive enough to draw your attention without being garish - note that the more vivid red is hugely less attractive.

I would not repaint the trim in a color that would have more contrast than the current one to the base color of the walls. I think that would chop up the space a lot and lose the sense of quiet harmony that the current color scheme has. An alternate color with the same 'color value' ( i.e. one that would look the same as the existing trim if you took a black and white photo of it) as the existing trim could work perhaps but I doubt that it would look sufficiently better to make it worth the extensive effort required to do the paint job - far easier to repaint a door if you change the color and then don't like it!

To try to illustrate what I'm talking about, I 'photoshopped' roughly this picture of our house from Oct. 2008 to try to illustrate bland white can be improved on. Mind you, this may be one of those cases where my taste is wildly out of sync. with the majority!

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DIY guy, one note of caution - IF your new fence is made of PT wood, it's recommended that you wait at least 6 months before painting it. Because of the chemicals in the wood continuing to leach out, you cannot got a good bond. Don't want you to have a peeling fence. To verify this, ask at a GOOD paint store, not a big box.

I don't think the impediment to paint is "chemicals" so much as it is moisture and the fact that as the wood dries, it shrinks. The pickets will dry much sooner than the posts.

Actually, before you go any further, you need to examine things from the perspective that really matters - where you will be sitting behind the fence. It is easy for us to get all hyped up about what "looks" best but if you put on a huge top plate that is right at eye level when you sit there, the fence will have missed its point.

Put a chair on your future patio and see how it is to be sitting behind the fence. Can you see what you want to? Also, how is it from inside the house, sitting or standing?

Karin L

I think it looks so much cleaner now without the edgers and the gothic points, even the mulch doesn't stand out so much. It'll fade with time anyway.

I wouldn't do anything fancy with caps, I like the simple strong horizontal in Yardvaark's first example picture. It's more in keeping with the house. Not to mention I think it would be easier. Then if you paint the verticals of the fence (when you paint it) the same color as the light grey of the house, and then do the cap in the color of your trim, it'll look like it belongs, I think.

As far as a bed or planting on the outside of the fence, I'd leave a space next to the fence for pots. chunky, square architectural pots or planting boxes. You could even take your pavers out beyond the fence to about the same width as the walk is, and set pots on it. you can put whatever brilliant, modern-looking plants and vines in the pots that suit your mood and season.

then outside that, use some of the low hawthornes you have on the other side of the walk.

heck, you could even take the pavers on around and make a walk from the front to the back yard around the outside of the fence.

I feel that the width of that fence makes the front of the house look smaller. It needs to be widened at least to the edge of the bush on the left. Sorry, but it is not enhancing the front of your house at all. I like it better then before but looonnger would be better. Could someone mock up a wider fence just to see.....Yardvaark?

Half of posts shortened (Pain the ARSE), got the cap temporarily to see what it would look like.
Can't decide which way looks best:

NO OVERHANG: (Bad for drainage)

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Half Inch Overhang (Better for water drainage)

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ALSO, I would probably leave an overhang on the edge too so I could side cap it from there as well.

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Close Up with Chair behind fence

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Btw, They arent painted yet, just in case you couldnt tell, gotta let them dry out for a few weeks, its treated wood.

What do you think YardVaark, Karin? DD? anyone else?

In a side-by-side comparison of the caps with and without overhang, I prefer version "A" (without.) The way the cap board and rail fit together appear more bold, simple, strong and as though it IS one piece which more closely relates with the flavor of your existing house trim. It's in the same family. The corner boards on the house are simple slabs. In version "B" the proposed cap board and rail of the fence appears more as two separate pieces in which the cap proper is a skimpy 1 1/2". In my mind, with the extra shadow created by overhang, it appears as 3 thin horizontal pieces... of a different trim style family. Where I showed a schematic of it earlier (with minimal... 1/4" overhang) I'd place a good bead of caulk between the two pieces to seal from water infiltration. Then I'd add a second bead as a fillet along the entire joint in order to blend the appearance of the two boards into one... and even further minimize water entering the joint.

I see that you've used a broad cap board in order to include the post into the capping scheme. I can't tell what your plans are in the future, but unless this solution is necessary, I think I'd have opted for a narrower (4" or 6") cap board and dealt with the fence post in another fashion. But again, my crystal ball is off so maybe you need to use the wide board. It seems excessively wide (which will tend it toward "cupping.")

Even if you don't show it to us, you might look at the cap rail schemes you're considering with the addition of that 2nd, lower horizontal trim piece... to rule it out without qualms if nothing else.

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yardvaark,
that was my problem with the cap board, the 4 and 6 inchers were just too narrow to cover the posts. How would you deal with the posts if you go narrower?

Also, put the second one rail on front, looks kinda weird, not sure why.

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Also, because the second rail is lower that the original fence rail, theres not much for it to hang on to besides those thin pickets.

Wife didnt like the second rail, wonder if there is anyway we can make it look better, maybe bring it down a bit.
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Dang... you're fast!

I favor the second rail for the same reasons I said earlier and think it might be one of those things that needs for the project to get finished looking before it "gels." Experiment with various options, but if wife doesn't like then factor in heavily or risk serious consequences. Don't want that!

One way to deal with the protruding post is bevel off the protruding part at 45* or steeper angle (uniform @ ea. post, of course.) Would require handsaw cutting.

To my eye , I would choose the slight overhang.
It casts just enough shadow to add a sense of definition, - much like how the simple trim work around the windows casts a discreet definition against the facade of the house.

The non overhang is too bland.

I don't care for the second rail. It is too heavy and adds a cluttered look .

DD, What do you think of the cap? is it too thin? too Narrow? Do i need to go with a 2x6 instead of the 1x8 ? Thoughts Please.

Also yardvaark, Im taking pics as I work, so yes its update as we go, I just chopped off the other two posts.

My two cents: I prefer your fence without the overhang and without the second rail. The second rail is neither here nor there. To me, introducing a second rail doesn't make a lot of design sense, nor does it tie back to the trim on the windows & door of the house.

I don't think you will notice whether you used a 1x8 or 2x6 for your cap once the fence has been painted. I think the 2x6 makes sense if you were to scrutinize the proportions of the cap to the rail and just focus on those two elements myopically. But looking at the cap & rail as one unit, the proportions seem to work when I compare it to the trim of the rest of the house.

>reyesuela, look at 2nd and 3rd picture. The fence is attached to the house.

Whoops! It is. :-) Didn't look like it in his photoshopped version.

Some more pics. I'll try to explain. Pics not the best quality cuz it was getting dark

Difference in size between 1x8 and 2x6

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2x6 as cap

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Post still shows when 2x6 is cap

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Crazy idea using 1x4 as cap

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Looks clean from the front

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Thoughts?

I like the look of the 2 x 4 best... except that the posts remain naked. A solution to that is to remove the fence and set it in-between posts... meaning that at the front section, the fence would be cut into two sections. Then the cap spans everything without doctoring any posts... more like a traditional porch railing would be. This would be a cleaner look. Since the post is completely exposed with the 4" rail, what I described earlier about trimming it an an angle won't work.... not well anyway. It would work with the 6" rail, but that doesn't seem like the best overall solution.

With the 4" rail, another option comes to mind, but it's immediately negated by the off-center, center post, and that is to make separate and slightly taller caps for the posts. All of this begins to get complicated trying to come up with "saves" after things get going in one direction and there are many possible alternative details. Usually, trying to describe them is more difficult that doing them.

Getting rid of the pickets and the concrete edging make everything else better.

Don't hesitate to say the direction you lean.

Removing the pickets and adding more rails, using 1x lumber for rails, would make the whole thing thinner. I don't think the problem here is what cap to use; it is the bulkiness of what you are trying to cap.

Karin L

I agree with Karin.

@karin, I see what your saying, but I'm not into spending anymore money on lumber, What you are saying is to remove all the pickets (Difficult) and replace them with horizontal rails? Correct?

@yardvaark, I like the look of 1x8 cap, but it is pretty thin like you said and could warp, the 1x6 isnt looking right to me for some reason. maybe because of the bigger line between it and the 1x4 rail? not sure

"maybe because of the bigger line between it and the 1x4 rail? not sure"

I do not understand this question.

Have you ruled out the idea of setting the fence portion between the posts (underneath the "cap")? Seems like it would solve all the little problems that revolve around the capping issue. You could use the 2 x 6 if you think the 2 x 4 is too narrow. (2 x 8 is just "over the top" for me.... but you are making the artistic calls.)

@yardvaark, How would you attach the fence in between the posts? Brackets? Interested in this option. How would I keep the front cap of the fence on there? Just leave it attached to the posts?

Your options would be cleats, brackets, or toe-nailing, depending on what works best for you.

Before attaching it to the posts, I would first attach the front and top portions of the cap system to one another so they behaved as a one-piece trim. ("L" profile.) Then attach that to posts and, if necessary, periodically to pickets if additional strength is needed for pickets or rail. Attaching to pickets might be by running an 8d nail through and bending down the excess that comes out the back side. When it's painted, it will not be noticed.

More kindling. Just remember the fumes from burning PTT can be toxic.

Geez, in the world of "would-a, could-a, should-a", I might have just saved and transplanted the original healthy, attractive bushes and shrubs to the outside perimeter of a newly created courtyard patio under the front window. Best of both worlds - a landscape style commensurate with the architecture of the home combined with a new private sitting area that doesn't obstruct the view from the window. Less expensive too. Ah well, what's done is done...

Hey everyone, for those who have been following this project, I thought you might be interested in the completed fence.

Here are some pics. Not sure why some of the pics are smaller then others.

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Any questions or comments let me know

It is substantially better looking than the first picture of it we saw. Comparing the two pictures, I like this much better. Are you in agreement? ... or in regret?

I agree :) It looks better! You still need to paint it and plant in front of the fence, but it will end up better suiting your needs for your home. Good luck!!

ya I like it, could have done some things differently if we planned better. I was able to deal with the posts by attaching it an extra piece of cap sideways over the far right post to cover it. Put a 2x4 under neath it to finish the look.

Now I have to wait for the wood to dry out. How long does that take?

Also time to start thinking about pavers :-) (the original intent of this post)

I don't think any one has mentioned the leaning white trellis at the side of the house. Can it be taken out?

@donnagwd
Look at the last pic I posted. Its in a pot, so yes it can be taken out.

As for the vent, I looked at it in my crawlspace , its covered with insulation, these things are completely useless. I did my research.

This was an amazing post. I only visit this forum ocassionally, and realize I have no standing here.

That fence is terrible. Get rid of the fence. No amount of tweaking will make it look good. It will only look a little bit less terrible. You experts are too nice and you all caved.

DIY, you have a really nice house, and it still looks worse than before you started the improvements. You are continuing to throw good money after bad. Not a recipe for success in any endeavor. I would not hire a DO IT YOURSELF brain surgeon and you should not be a DIY landscaper. You do not have an eye for design. Not one bit. Yaardvaark knows his stuff (I lurk here a bit) and in my opinion you should just ask him what he would do if it was his house and then DO THAT. I'm talking about starting over from sqaure one. Chalk it up to experience and go have a few beers.
Christine

Tell us how you really feel, Christine.

In truth, I would have gone with the 6 months ago photo in the original post - edited, neatened, replaced a shrub or two and not toyed with the fence idea. But DIY made as good a save as can be. Painted to match the house and the "shock of the new" will be pretty well gone.

Question remains as to what to put outside the fence so the bottom isn't floating - smaller spireas? nice but can get boring; Crimson Pygmy barberry? Nice color, but thorny. Boxwood? Just about everything I can think of at the moment becomes hedgy.

@annieGolden

Hey thanks for your thoughts, I wouldn't hire a DIY brain surgeon either, unless he was the Dr. from the Simpsons, Dr. Nick.

But then again this isnt brain surgery :~)

I see you dont like my fence, maybe I can come by and build one for you :/

I think your revamped fence looks better than the first fence. Painting it to match your trim will probably help it out, too.

I really liked the original landscape, but it's important to have a functional yard that works for your needs. It can't always be about looks and we don't all have large landscaping budgets.

Maybe you can re-create something like the original shrub design (before you removed it to make room for the fence) but have it in front of, and to the side of, your fence. That will reduce the lawn area AND provide privacy, as well as give a nod to the design that really suited the style of your lovely home.

However, I'm no expert and my front yard is also in need of help ;-)

Anniegolden seems unclear on who owns the property!

Regarding the vent, do you think maybe it isn't supposed to be covered with insulation? Are there other vents?

Regarding planting outside the fence, I think a varied planting would be best, much of it evergreen. I am quite delighted at the prospect of seeing a fresh take on foundation planting - moving it away from the foundation, but still nesting the house. I think it will work.

Karin L

Personally I think if you are tossed betwwen the two, pavers would be much more appropriate. We are considering that as well for our house. You may also want to consider stamped concrete. I would either do a complementary transparent stain on the fence or a paint on the fence and some nice landscaping on the outside. It would really add depth to your home.

Can I ask how you got your pictures on here? I am having a horrible time posting them.

@karinL
The vent is supposed to be a crawlspace vent. The reasoning behind it was to let air flow underneath your house so there is no moisture build up and no mold. however, these never worked well, and you still get moisture under there. Many experts are no longer putting these vents in and instead opting to cover the dirt in the crawl space with a thick plastic barrier and put in a dehumidifier.
Also, you are supposed to have more than one for "air flow", I only have one for some reason. So....... its pretty useless.

@ karen47401

I use google +. I "share" my pics from my phone to my google+ page, and then when I am writing a post I type in
You go to the pic you want to share on you google+ page, or any other pic host, and right click on it. then click "Copy Image URL" and put it in between the "" on the img src thingy.

Hope that helps

karinl, of course, you are correct. It is DIY's yard. My response was over the top, but sincere. If I lived next door to DIY I would never say a word. But that is an advantage of these forums, because we can state our true opinions. And perhaps this might benefit somebody at some point.

In any area of design, it is hugely a matter of opinion and personal taste. However, beauty vs ugliness is an incremental continuum - at one end of the continuuum virtually everyone would say that a design was beautiful, and at the other end virtually everyone would say that it was awful.

When an individual solicits assistance on a public forum, that person will get a public response. DIY did not post on this forum to make new friends, but to get help with his design.
Christine

"DIY did not post on this forum to make new friends, but to get help with his design."

Actually, lol, I didn't I wanted opinions on Pavers or Floating Decks, but then got pulled into this. LOL

Anywhoo, I like the way it looks, but have to wait for it to dry out before painting it.

Regarding that vent that is insulated and not working... may I suggest you use pavers near the house and dig the area out around the vent while putting in concrete block in a U shape with the ends of the U touching the house on both sides. Then you can take that hole and cover it with a paver to match the rest of the patio. This way the area with the vent still stays exposed to the air, yet is hidden. And with pavers in front, instead of concrete, they can always be easily moved if you ever want to run electrical outlets for Cmas lights or a water faucet or whatever to your patio. The area directly around my house I like to keep covered in pavers instead of plants or concrete for airflow and easy remodeling in the future.

Looks much better.

Gray square pavers would look best. Very clean and square, and the same blue-gray family, not yellowish gray.

Sorry--I actually meant RECTANGULAR. Not the 1' concrete square steppingstones. :-) If it looks like bluestone or slate, all the better. If it IS bluestone or slate--the best.