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gln2_gw

min depth of bed against house?

GLN2
9 years ago

I am having pavers put down in my backyard, which has an inground pool very close to the house. Pavers will run from the pool edge over to the house wall. I want a narrow planting bed running along the side of the house to add visual interest rather than staring at blank siding and to also help with drainage.

What depth should I make this bed to properly support some perennials? (I don't know what I would plant there yet. I'm in zone 7, and this wall faces South with full sun from about noon onwards. So it gets pretty hot. Soil is pure sand for many feet below. Guess that's another post!) The near window trim is 5ft off the ground, the far 3.5 feet.

If I stop the pavers at the far steps and run them parallel to house it would be a 17" deep bed, and 60" of pavers from the front of steps to pool edge. Is 17" enough, or should I shorten the 60" paver area to enlarge the bed depth?

Thanks,
Glenn

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:29765}}

Comments (17)

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Here is the picture from further away.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    9 years ago

    17" is barely wide enough to grow annuals, let alone any permanent plants like perennials. I'm not sure how much you could widen it to comfortably accommodate both the pavers and a generous planting bed. Personally, if this walkway is used frequently for access, I'd opt for pavers - it's not comfortable feeling too restricted or confined by a very narrow walkway bordering a pool :-))

    And then there's the issue of the very sandy soil. What about using some taller, narrow containers rather than planting in ground? You can more easily achieve a height that wall calls out for, better address the soil situation and still have enough room to move by comfortably.

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    9 years ago

    I TOTALLY agree with GG. A narrow walk and narrow planting bed is doing no one any good. Go for function ... pavers. Containers for planting are the best bet.

  • User
    9 years ago

    Fill that POS in and you can have a very nice sized planting bed. There really isn't even enough room for a safe walkway. Especially once you account for actually bringing those stairs up to safety standards. I'd suspect that this was done without permits.

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the comments. If I would pull the pavers back another 10" from the house that would give a 27" deep planting bed and a 50" wide run of pavers. So you don't feel that this could be a comfortable sized pathway along the pool?

    50" is also the width of the walkway on the other side of the house. It is a very comfortable width for that existing walkway to a side entrance.

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    9 years ago

    The location of measurements you mention are not clear. It would be good if you could show a specific measurement laid out in a photo. Also, it is unclear what the angled brick structure below the siding is and how it fits into the measurement scheme.

  • deviant-deziner
    9 years ago

    It looks like you have enough space for a narrow planting bed between the house and the new pathway.
    Coping acts as a walking surface and is usually 12 or 14 inches wide. Add in another 30 inches from your paving material and you'll have enough room for a functional pathway and a narrow green strip.

    attached is a photo of a lap pool that we did many years ago. the path is narrow but functional and the greenery enlivens the vertical space.

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I attached a simple sketch of the backyard renovation plan, and I've added in in red notations the distances from the end of the new bullnose pavers going in at the pool edge over to the house.

    EVERYTHING is being demoed and cleared away: low brick wall, all cement, coping on pool edge, and fence. It's a full renovation. Attached drawing shows layout of the planned pavers. (Existing fence shown in the previous photograph behind the diving board is being kicked out about 8ft, as shown in this plan.) Just decided we will probably get rid of the diving board, also.

    Deviant, thanks for the pic. That is what I was hoping to get on this forum; real examples. How wide is that walkway? My pathway would be even less "cramped" because I would not have the solid sections of wall close by, since my planting strip would run continuously between the door openings.

    It's just hard to decide how much to pave and how much to leave as a soil border against the house. Four inches this way or that will change the look. I know I can only tell if I like it or not after it is installed!

    Thanks all.

  • emmarene9
    9 years ago

    I would not have plants in that area. Not even in containers.That area looks very shaded. .

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Nope, definitely NOT a shady spot. Put a clock on that pool, then due South is at the 8 o'clock position, sun sets at about the 1 o'clock position. That wall and sidewalk gets full direct sun from about noon to maybe 6pm during the summer. That cement is about 30yrs old and just went through a snowy winter, so it just looks dreary now. New pavers will drastically change the look of the place. (And the pic was taken on a cloudy day, note there is no sunlit area anywhere.)

    This post was edited by GLN2 on Tue, May 27, 14 at 16:27

  • deviant-deziner
    9 years ago

    If I am reading the small print correctly it looks like you have 6'-3 between house and pool wall at the narrowist point.
    I'd be inclined to make the path 4'-9" and planting bed 18 inches wide.
    My reasoning is that if you choose a plant that grows slightly over the edge of the planting border you will still have a modest amount of pathway space.

    I just came back from a trip overseas and viewed a lot of swimming pools. Many had narrow pathways around the pool and they functioned well + looked great.

    I've also designed a few dozen pools , many in tight spaces like yours.
    In situations like this I tend to use vertical plants such as vines with an understory of narrow growing shrubby perennials /shrubs/ succulents that will soften the planting edge.

    In the project that I posted above , the path is about 36 inches wide if memory serves correctly ( it was designed about 24 years ago) The path is not the main access path. If it was, I would try to eek out at least 48 inches for comfort level.

  • PRO
    Yardvaark
    9 years ago

    Keep in mind that there is a big difference between a narrow path on the far side of a pool that a single swimmer might use vs a path between pool and house that several people might use while they are possibly carrying objects.

    Since the pool and the house already exist, one wouldn't need to wait until the new set-up is built in order to determine if they like it or not. Mock up some plants in pots along the wall that represent a planted area. Walk it while envisioning meeting others coming from a different direction, or several people collecting to access the steps, etc. I know for my tastes it would be too tight for a line of plants. A cut-out in the paving for an accent plant might work.

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    deviant-deziner, interesting. Using climbing vines did not occur to me. Thanks for the idea. And yes, 6' 3" is correct.

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Possibly viewing the plan drawing via this link will give one a larger and clearer image.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:29770}}

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I did a quick search on some vines, and came upon Star Jasmine, Trachelospermum jasminoides 'Madison' which should just make it in my zone. Something like that could be sheared to remain shallow and hug close to a trellis.

    If I would use a few trellises along the house wall, I would think a 17" deep bed should be good, and that would leave me with a 58" walkway along the pool.

    Guess I should post in a plant forum section for ideas. (Man, this site has too many categories. Everything is "sliced and diced" so fine.) Since I can only post one pic link at a time, I will follow this up with two more pics of sheared Star Jasmine.

    Thanks for any comments.

    Here is a link that might be useful: [example of Star Jasmine on a wall behind pool[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/city-beach-contemporary-pool-perth-phvw-vp~2043322)

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Another example of Star Jasmine against a wall.

    Here is a link that might be useful: [Star Jasmine against a wall[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/topiary-and-clipped-planting-in-the-garden-traditional-landscape-london-phvw-vp~2205062)

  • GLN2
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Last pic of the Star Jasmine. All three of these pics show this would not take of very much space.

    Here is a link that might be useful: [Star Jasmine in planter boxes[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/alices-house-mediterranean-patio-venice-phvw-vp~95508)