Use the stone dust. The folks you talked to are correct about the dust making a tighter bond than the sand, but they're incorrect about the dust not draining. It does drain, but at a slower rate.

Thanks treebeard. I looked at the stone dust today. Would you say the stone dust is better than a polymeric sand?

Neither will significantly drain unless the joints are substantial. Paver products have a pretty tight joint designed into them. Drainage calculations are usually done just as if they were asphalt or concrete because the absorption rate is next to nothing.

Thanks Laag, interesting point. The joints are pretty tight. So I guess what you are saying is either material should work about the same?

Neither will make a dent in handling water runoff.

Stone dust is tiny chipped fragments from granite crushing operations. Thet are angular a fit together tighter when compacted where sand tends to be rounded particles which do not appreciably fit together when run over by a compactor (kind of like filling a bucket with marbles and stomping on them - you still wind up with voids and particles that are capable of wandering .... and more opprtunity for weed growth).

So that looks like two votes for the stone dust. Thanks.

We had our tumbled paver patio installed in 2004...and the contractor used stone dust. Three years later, and we have VERY few weeds...so another vote for stone dust.

As to water...our patio was part of a comprehensive drainage plan...lots of grading and drainage pipes and such. It worked a treat. We had a frog-strangler in late May...the creek flooded but the window wells didn't!

I've included a link to my photobucket album of the finished project...should you feel so inclined.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mel's 2004 Great Wall of Chapel Hill and Paver Project

mjsee, thanks for letting me know about the weeds. That is great to know. Your pavers look great. I like the variation in color. I attached some photos of the patio project I am working on.

jkbogle,
I did add a pitch to the patio, away from the house and porch. That is a great idea about the carpet! How do you keep it wrapped around the compactor? I was worried about damaging the pavers, so that sounds like a great solution. Thanks!

Here is a link that might be useful: Patio photos

In my humble opinion the pavers should be laid on stone dust over a compacted base and then have dry sand brushed into the joints and then compacted so that the sand works down into the joints, you need to do this several times. As you don't want water draining THROUGH your patio but over it the drainage capability of sand/stone dust is a moot point. Tumbled pavers are thrown about together to give them a stressed appearance so protecting them with an old carpet seems a bit unnecessary although when you buy a compacter new there is a rubber mat on the plate that I have never seen anyone use.

inkognito, so you think sand as opposed to stone dust? Could you tell me why sand would be a better choice?
Thanks.

Sand has smaller particles and when dry (kiln dried or paver sand) will sift down between smaller joints than stone dust, which is probably why they use it (sand) in egg timers.

This is my first time on this site and I like what I see. We need to remove and redue our concrete/paver porch and our walkway. It currently is Village Square 8 x 8 pavers, running bond and Autumn Blend color. I originally chose the 8 x 8 pavers because I was concerned that the smaller the paver the busier it would look with the brick on the house. It is being suggestd to me to go with Coventry Brick Stone in a Herringbone pattern on both porch and walk. Again I am afraid of it looking busy. It has been my personal experience that when approaching the front door you want to create a feeling of tranquility not a busy rush down the walk to the front door feeling. It's the same principle that having to many specimen plants can make it hard to focus on just the beauty of one.

Please look at my pictures and see what you think.
I really would appreciate some suggestions on what I should do. Thanks, Ally_LD

Hi Ally, you may want to post your question as a separate post, it will probably get lost in here. Also your pics didn't show up on your post.

Just as an update, I used the stone dust and the pavers are set in tightly. Some particles of the stone dust were too large, so I can understand the sand recommendation per Inkognito above. Sand probably would have been an easier process. I was just picturing ants having picnics all over my patio.

Thanks to everyone for your input. It helped me make my decision and finally finish my patio (which I hope to sit on and have coffee tomorrow)...

"Sand has smaller particles..."

Well, can't say where Ink buys his stone dust, but here in Massachusetts, stone dust is by far the smaller particle. Perhaps Canadian dust is larger than sand, or sand up there is extremely small...:-)

Around here, the dust is the smallest. Sand in these parts varies in size based on where it's mined and how it's processed (if at all), but always has a larger grain size than the dust.

" As you don't want water draining THROUGH your patio but over it the drainage capability of sand/stone dust is a moot point."

Not necessarily so. A well designed and constructed hard surface of pavers, or stone, depends on slope to evacuate rainwater, and the material within the joints if slopes are minimal. And most patios will have minimal slopes. It should be pointed out that the reason many patios fail is not due to poor surface drainage, it's due to poor subsurface and base preparation that doesn't allow for water in the soils to drain away from the area. Water draining through the joints should be able to do just that.., drain through a well prepared base and beyond.

Stone dust is a commonly used material in both commercial and residential applications as a base material. Depending on the loading requirements of the surface, it can be used directly over a well compacted gravel base, or over a well compacted crusher run (processed stone) base. And a very important key to good base preparation is good drainage. If stone dust were impermeable, it wouldn't be used around here to the extent that it is.

Just thought you'd like to know...

Stone dust is not that free draining at all. Anyone who has prepared an area for a patio with stone dust and has been caught in a rain will tell you that it can behave like clay and turn into a layer of jello. Some stonedust particles probably meet the definition of clay. The small particles make small voids that are slow to absorb water and hold onto it tightly. It neither gives water up generously to the soil below or to the air above.

It is best to account for all of the water draining off of the patio surface and not to expect any significant pervious characteristics from the joints in a paver patio.

I guess the difference is that the particles in paver sand are consistent in size which is not true of stone dust, something beenie discovered first hand. This is important if attempting to avoid scratching the surface when compacting because the larger bits are ground under the compactors plate. As for the drainage question I agree that one purpose of the sub surface preparation is to facilitate "water in the soils to DRAIN AWAY from the area" not through, note, compacted crusher run will be impermeable so it makes no sense to have water drain through the pavers on top of this. Permeable paving requires different preparation but I don't think it is suitable for a patio.

Instead of filling in the cracks, this patio uses the cracks to direct rain into the patio to use later to water the garden!!!
HTTP://WWW.BRICKPATIO.BLOGSPOT.COM

Kill 2 problems with one stone! :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: brick patio that collects rainwater

I agree with Inkognito. Not sure the consistency of the stone dust where you are but in Canada the stuff I am accustomed to is far too granular and the larger grains will get caught up near the top of the joint and leave air gaps below and eventually work their way down and loosening the bond between the pavers. Dry sand will fill the joint entirely, much the same way that it slips through your fingers or an hour glass. sweep in, tamp, sweep in tamp, rinse repeat until your joints will take no more, then leave a fine film of sand on the surface for the breeze to further work over the joints.

On top of this however I would suggest polymeric sand. it forms a bond that tightens the joints and seals them from the water and air penetration that weed roots require to grow. Same process just don't leave the film that I mentioned above and moisten over a couple times with the mist setting on your hose when you are done. Before you moisten be sure that the surface is swept well, and don't walk on it once moist as you may track sand grains that will bond to and stain the pavers. Polymer sand is not cheap but one bag will be enough and it is well worth it. You can play with joint colour too as the polymer sand comes in various tints.

FWIW the pros in my area use polymeric sand for this purpose. It's not just regular sand, it's optimized for this purpose. We have just installed several thousand square feet of patios and walkways as well as some accents to our driveway using Unilock, and Unilock specifically requires their contractors to use polymeric sand. That being said, I have no hands-on experience! This was a project we left to the pros because of the scope involved (and the fact that Unilock doesn't sell retail).

I did a quick search and found what looks to be an interesting link explaining why it's preferable to regular sand...

Here is a link that might be useful: Info on Polymeric Sand

Note that this thread first saw the light of day in 2007 when Polymeric sand, although available was not widely used. It is more difficult to apply than regular paving sand which may be the reason although newer product don't have the same problems.

I did a curved paver apron off my deck (25' X2-5') and used the polymeric sand. It works great and was not hard to install. After two years only two sprigs of bermunda grass have come in the edge. The sand stayed in place on the slope and filled the area above the edging.