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janandalan

Too Much Color-Texture-Variety??(Many Pics)

janandalan
18 years ago

Hi all,

As some of you may remember, I started planting the foundation area of our new home last fall. I do remember someone (Laag or INK?) saying that I should choose some "ducks" to go with my "swans", meaning to pick some low key plants to go with the louder plants.

Here is what it looked like last fall (nothing but tiny shrubs):

{{gwi:43861}}

We have since had the large trees removed (they died) and planted some new trees around the front yard. We added a climbing rose and a large trellis next to the garage door and a few more plants in the bed. With everything growing, it sure looks different. I like it, but I'm beginning to wonder if there's not too much going on?

{{gwi:43862}}

{{gwi:43863}}

I am still working on the area along the driveway where the large trees used to be, and plan to put in shrubs and small conifers in that area this fall.

Question: should I move some of the existing foundation shrubs out there to open up the foundation area or should I leave them alone and buy some new ones?

Ignore the lawn, it's a work in progress and I still need to edge the beds with something. Suggestions are welcome.

(Tell me the truth. Too many swans? Too busy?)

{{gwi:43864}}

{{gwi:43865}}

.......Jan

Comments (90)

  • Ron_B
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    With this last perspective the house looks like it is under seige, the broadleaf trees spacing themselves out so nobody can escape, the arborvitaes waiting off to the side for the final attack. DO have a look at 'Garden Design Illustrated', it would really help you with this excercize.

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry Brent, I was typing at the same time as you were.
    Yeah, I know all about you and "Otto". LOL. (Does Otto like full sun?)

    You're correct about my having learned some things. Like you I am finding myself with lots of good stuff, but not really liking the overall effect.

    As for the hollies, I have three 'soft-touch and three 'carissa' in the foundation planting. I also have some 'soft-touch' further out by the driveway. There are a total of five 'ruby' lorapetalums, three 'mt. airy' fothergillas and three 'degroots spire' arborvitaes. Five Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Filifera Mops' with more along the drive and in seperate beds, and a 'knock-out' rose with more scattered around. Then there is one variegated Eunomous (sp?) which I am definately moving out and three very small Daphnes ('Carole Mackie') in front of my 'Don Juan' climbing rose on the trellis. There is a very small 'Crimson Queen' Japanese Maple under the right hand window, as well.

    Throw in a handful of ' happy returns' daylilies, some asiatic and oriental lilies and the foundation bed has been inventoried in full.

    YIKES!

    I think what you did with your height experiment would also be a good excercise for me. I already know that I need something less columnar beside the front edges of the house to help anchor it. I'll be researching small, shallow-rooted trees for this purpose.

    ....Jan

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry Ron, I'm a terribly slow typist. I will indeed check out your suggested book. (Under seige, you say? I'm going to the garage to check the roundup supply).
    ......Jan

  • spunky_MA_z6
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan, why is your driveway shaped the way it's shaped?

  • inkognito
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's not quite what I meant but even that gives a sense of where you need to add to give balance. Remember the shape of that Greenguy bed that had everyone oohing and aahing? bring one of of those around in a swoop from your crap mytle, I am not suggesting that everything inside this curve is flower bed only that it may provide a grid. The cow rock is behind the willow oak where grass meets walkway. And, for heavens sake put an Otto Luykens in there someplace even if you have to use the evil software (if soft ware is appropriate with Brent listening).

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Spunky,
    It's really not, there is a hill going down and then up slightly before leveling off at the garage. It's a trick of perspective. The actual drive is one lane from the road leveling off at two lanes at the garage.

    INK,
    Otto will go in (at least in a drawing). Brent neglected to tell me that it can get ten feet tall and fifteen feet wide. (Bigger than a sleeping cow).
    .......Jan

  • Saypoint zone 6 CT
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is just one of my goofy doodles using Paint, but I find it helps me visualize masses without getting into specific plants, etc. It doesn't deal with the trees in the lawn, which I think you can tie together with a large bed of shrubs.

    I'm learning about considering the scale of the plants vs. the scale of the bed or house as well, as I work on my own landscape. I read recently about skipping the low edging plants under 1 foot tall when planting a large border, and going with medium plants right up front, and a light bulb went on for me. The low plants look fine in a small planting or small garden, but in my large border, something wasn't right, even with layering tall, medium and short plants.

    It's something I think you need to consider in your front planting, which is why I think it looks spotty and busy to you, or you wouldn't have asked. Think big masses and larger plants. IMO
    Jo

    I think your house looks better with roundy-moundy shapes, rather than the spires, but, that's just me.

    {{gwi:43869}}

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I sure hope that Otto does not get that big!! Like any plant the references seem to be all over the board. When I planted them I had the info of 4' x 4', but I do think they can get a bit wider. For me they have been a near perfect foundation plant (though I planted them too close to the house and I go back and forth about whether the straight line was a good thing...the straight line of perennials in front was not).

    {{gwi:43870}}

    I now return you to your the regularly scheduled program. ;-)

    - Brent

  • laag
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ... and Saypoint took care of the house first. It is where this one has to begin in my opinion. Now it is no longer an issue. Add to her picture and see if it is difficult to wreck the entire landscape now that she has settled the house. Try it.

  • sharons2
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cool! I knew there was a reason why I spend far too much time in the Landscape Design forum.... (And I'd pretty well decided that I was going to have to trace my house, too. Every time I look at a picture, the hollyhocks become a permanent and unchangeable feature of my yard....)

    And I can't think of any good ways to wreck that latest picture of your landscape, either, Jan.

  • Frankie_in_zone_7
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This has turned into a great thread. It seems to me that the average landscape book has not near enough time spent on grounding. Of course there is always the one picture or so of the house with the tree added to the corner, but I am a slow learner and need to see lots of "before and afters" so it can sink in, and sink in for different house styles, alternative shrub or hardscape choices to give similar effects, etc. Also I am interested in using the grid layout system if that helps to organize the plan. So I am going to try to do more searching for materials which drive these points home for me. The usual books are so busy trying to have a chapter each on how to build a path, or a wall, or dig a border. They show plans designed to meet goals for usage, shade etc but seldom show the perspectives on grounding. Photos are too up close and not panoramic to show the setting. Jan's photos are some of the few which have actually shown the home in its setting well enough to make some of these analyses.

    Okay, I know that might be analogous to saying I am disappointed that I have not yet found a book at Barnes & Noble to enable me to be a brain surgeon, so please do not take it that way; I appreciate that the pro's are very tolerant of us peons reading and studying. So what I am saying is that I naturally find that the more I learn, the more I want to go back and back into more basics, and taht the average materials available have really skipped these steps; this thread is good for that.

    I have now figured out that I might use more Internet searches for pictures & designs rather than buying 10 books to get the one picture or paragraph on this subject in each book. For example, the recent link on garden paths gave more examples, which opens up one's thinking on options just by seeing more photos and seeing why they seem to work or not and which aspects one could duplicate most easily.

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am with you Frankie. I have learned a lot from some recent threads. Seeing a "before" picture of a barren yard and an "after" picture of a beautiful landscape is cool, but a little hard to comprehend. I get a lot more out of seeing the gray area in between and figuring out what it takes to go from "nice" to "NICE!!"

    - Brent

  • JillP
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I too had wandered about the driveway. Thought it looked awkward, thanks for explaining the hill thing. But, do you want a bed along the drive at all? I know you don't have to worry about where to shovel the snow, but you can still have a problem with people getting out of the car and stepping in your beds, or getting attacked by over-zealous plant growth with bee attracting flowers.

  • laag
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think that the book store problem is this. People shop for books in landscape design that have pictures of great results and maybe some technical how tos. People expect to read "if you do this, it does that. It is a basic way that most people learn most subjects.

    The problem is that you can't absorb it from reading. You can be introduced to concepts that can help. What you really need is excercises, but excercise books do not sell because they don't grab you.

    Look What Saypoint did. It is a basic excercise just like what I talked with the rectangles. You don't need a book, you just need to experiment. Don't just look at the boks or these threads, but experiment. Then you start to see what is happening and you learn from it. Don't be afraid to do something different, you'll find out if it works or not.

  • Frankie_in_zone_7
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, this is why I have gone back to my drawings of my house & yard and got out more tracing paper for doodling.

  • sharons2
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Amen and amen, Laag. I've been dying for an exercise book, and that's why I wanted so very much to analyze Maureen's little design. Are there several other ways that Jan's house could be landed on the ground?

    I have more questions on GreenGuy's bed, too - and should probably flip it back up on the first page.

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jo,
    Thanks. It looks good the way you've done it. I had to redraw your picture to include "Otto" because I did promise.

    {{gwi:43871}}

    Looks like this fall will be a busy time for me and it's a good thing I have a "favored customer discount card" for my local nursery. I do agree that the driveway bed is going to have to go. It really is "dictated by the ghost of the trees that once were there" as INK so insightfully put it.

    ......Jan

  • Cady
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Do you want to maintain that large expanse of lawn in front? I'm having images of a nice, big berm full of layers of small trees, shrubs, perennials and grasses to take a bite out of that flat swatch, and also to provide a privacy screen and a bit of sound muffling from the street. It would also integrate your property more naturally with the surrounding woods.

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL. Thanks for including my buddy Otto..or maybe it is Miss Laurocerasus.

    Another idea motivated by Cady's lawn/berm comment...have you tried thinking about the shape of the lawn rather than the shape of your planting beds? I could picture a berm and/or planting along the road and an oval shaped patch of grass. Or take GreenGuy's example and flip it around so you have a flowing bed of grass surrounded by trees, shrubs and ground cover.

    - Brent

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aye, and that will have to happen gradually over time so DH won't notice me nibbling away at his beloved lawn.

    (Brent, I would suspect that your buddy "Otto" plays both sides of the street, if you know what I mean).
    ......Jan

  • Cady
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh...right...Forgot about those DHs and their Lordship over the Lawn. lol
    What is it about guys and lawns...?!

  • Frankie_in_zone_7
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The way I understand it, the arborvitaes at the corners and other vertical points prevent integration of the house into the landscape.

    Is there some other place in the yard that Jan could use the arborvitaes? In a mixed shrub hedge or some other grouping?

  • laag
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't mind the arbs. Granted there are other plants that can do the same. I just would have planted ten footers, if i were to plant them.

    The position of the rose trellis flattens out the jog by the garage, doesn't it?

    Does the planting (actual plants in the photo)in front of the house accentuate the recess in the middle, or does it flatten it? What would happen with only a thin low planting close to the porch and then a heavier planting with more height and depth in front of the bricked walls?

    My opinion is that the depth created in the architecture was mollified by the trellis and then again by the planting. The advancing color of the garage does not help that either.

    And Jan, if you plan by giving the Otto Luyken that much space in your landscape it is an up hill battle. That is exactly what you did in your mind with those arbs, isn't it? You will find nice fat Ottos at about 30" across and 16" high in a nursery (probably much smaller in a garden center). You water and fertilize, why would you not prune and shear sometime in the next 12 years before it comes close to that size?

    I honestly think that many of you read your way out of doing practical things. We read that we must plan for the mature size of the tree. And then plant 6' tall spruce 30' apart to screen out our neighbors. (they still see us and we them)

    Keeping a landscape from out growing itself is relatively easy. Having one grow into itself is much harder and faces more variables (and uses a lot of time).

    Look at the depth of the faces of the house in Saypoints mock up. Then go look at the actual photos. Which has more?

  • grandblvd03
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This whole thread has been really helpful for me. I have a new area I'm going to be landscaping with similar issues.

  • Saypoint zone 6 CT
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would probably continue the planting, with lower plants, on the street side of the walk, so you walk through the planting to the door, rather than past it.

    My first thought on the trees is to either tie them together with a planting area, roughly peanut shaped, filled later with low shrubs and groundcover. If you feel this is too large an area, separate smaller beds can be made under the trees, filled with mulch and groundcover now, and made larger gradually as the trees increase in size and underplanted with shrubs later, since they'll be shaded then, but won't have shade now. Keep in mind that the larger the bed, the higher the maintenance in weeding, re-applying mulch, etc.

  • outsideplaying_gw
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan,
    I've been lurking a while, but it struck me from the beginning that our houses are a bit similar and located in similar wooded settings (we have trees in front, back, & sides on 9 acres; garage is on the left side). I really hesitated about posting photos, but thought it might be helpful to you in some way as the house & plantings are now about 5+ years old.

    OK, I realize I'm opening the door to all kinds of crit. When we had this done, I had zero time for adding anything myself for color or variety. I've since played around with adding some things (and still am), but the front is not my main focus for a color garden. When I took this set of photos, nothing much was even blooming (crepe myrtle, Stella d'Oro's, etc).

    {{gwi:43872}}


    {{gwi:43873}}


    {{gwi:43874}}

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    laag,

    "I just would have planted ten footers, if i were to plant them"

    Can't find no stinking ten footers! I have scoured every retail nursery in the greater Greensboro area, to no avail. I will keep looking for some larger specimens though. Maybe even an "Otto" or two.

    I built and placed my trellis to help distract from the terribly glaring expanse of vinyl siding and garage door on that side of the house. (see the very first picture). This may be a major design snafu. I don't know. But I really couldn't see covering up all the beautiful brick while I have no problem covering up the siding.

    Yes, Jo's drawing emphasizes the depth of the "nooks and crannies" much better than the existing plantings do.

    Jo,
    I have already decided to remove all of the plants that extend more than six feet out from the sidewalk and to turn the "driveway garden" over to DH for his (beloved) lawn. I will use the areas on both sides of the sidewalk for plantings.

    The trees in the lawn will not be tied together at this point in time. They are too far from each other and we still plan to plant some more this fall. Maybe at a later date. (They are, however, all mulched individually).

    Outside,
    I don't know if it's just my computer, but I can't see your picture(s). Maybe you could e-mail them to me?

    Thanks again all.

    ......Jan

  • Saypoint zone 6 CT
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan, I like the trellis and roses. I don't necessarily agree that you need to start out with really big plants, though they do give instant impact that you don't get with small ones. IMO the best place to spend extra if you can is on larger trees, because they grow so slowly. Shrubs will fill out more quickly even if you start small. If you have a plan and plant list in hand, you can shop the fall sales, too, for bargains.

  • laag
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan,

    If you take care of the house like Saypoints rendering, the rest of the planting does not wreck that. It will then work.

    Once you are dressed, you can accessorize.

    This is by no means a total wreck. You just have to address the house then you can pretty much do as you want.

  • mjsee
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was wondering how I missed this great thread--and then I realized it started last week when I was packing up and taking Elder Son to college. I knew I didn't have time to really read it...I'm glad I TOOK the time this evening.

    Jan--such good advice you've gotten! I'll try and find a source for "big guys" for you. I'll e-mail it to you if I find one...I KNOW someone around here has honking big trees and bushes.

    OutidePlaying--

    What variety is the Japanes Maple in the middle picture? I couldn't tell from the pic--but it is GAWJUS. Inspiring JM lust....

    melanie

  • ilima
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It has been interesting reading about planting big for instant impact versus the small plant and patience. My parents have been gardening for the last 20 years at their summer home on the top of a mountain just outside Waynesville, North Carolina. When I talked to them last week my dad was lamenting that the one acre they now have in cultivation was getting to be too much to take care of. It is a total woodland garden, no lawn, tons of flowers, flowering shrubs, vegies, ect. I will have to ask what he thinks about that because now he is looking to give things away they have multiplied so much.

    Keeping a landscape from out growing itself is relatively easy. Having one grow into itself is much harder and faces more variables (and uses a lot of time). I am assuming this still takes mature size and proper spacing into account.

    This is so NOT how it is for me here on Maui. The following is my real and honest answer here for How Long Will it Take?
    ___________________________________________________________
    April 2, 2005

    No Really How Long Will It Take ?

    Well that depends on two things mainly, one, what is the plant we are talking about and two, how good of a gardener are you? Entire libraries are devoted to number two so I will leave that alone for now.


    Generally speaking under reasonable attention paid to the plants needs you can see this kind of a time line on Maui. One year on Maui equals about five years in most parts of the mainland.


    Most groundcovers and small perennials will fill in within 6 to 9 months. That can be sped up or slowed down depending on spacing, proper care, and the right plant choice for the conditions where it is planted.


    Larger shrubs and tropicals are going to sit for the first 3 to 6 months while they put out a root system into the soil. Once they have an adequate root system they will begin to grow. At one year you will see good new growth. At 18 months the plants will be reaching a substantial size, some reaching their mature height and beginning to grow more in circumference. Pruning should have started to shape the plants for looks and health. At two years the landscape shrubs will be pretty much filled in. Regular pruning will be required to keep them in check. THE WAIT IS OVER.


    By year three depending on the scale of the planting and what plants you chose you will need to do weekly cleaning and trimming to keep things looking maintained. That can mean a lot of rubbish if you chose poorly, planted to closely for instant gratification and did not allow for the eventual size of the plants. The smaller underplantings will begin to be crowded out by the larger plants and start to disappear if they were planted to close.


    On the other hand if you picked the right plants for the right location and gave them the elbow room they will need you can have a beautiful collection of mature specimen plants that can go for weeks and months without needing much attention at all beyond a general tidying up. It will still be a full look at two years and can last for decades.


    Palms and trees started at a 6 to 10 foot tall range will be nice looking trees at 3 years. By 5 years they will be becoming substantial in size and approaching or surpassing in size and definately healthier than your neighbors palm or tree that they paid big bucks to have installed full grown.


    Patience really is a virtue.

    ilima

  • outsideplaying_gw
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Melanie, I can't remember the JM variety, but it is definitely a dissectum. I was looking around at a web site for something similar and believe it would be similar to the varieties Sekimori, Green Mist, or Washi no o.
    I'll have to beat myself with one of those blown-off tree limbs in the yard for not remembering. I probably have it written down, somewhere.....maybe.

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi all,
    DH and I have been busy rearranging the front beds. All of the "degroots spire" arborvitaes have been relocated elsewhere, the lorapetalums have been moved away from the front entry and planted to form "wings" on either side of the house, and I purchase a hawthorne pruned into a single trunked tree form and placed it in the "wing" we created on the far left side of the house.

    I am now in the process of "evacuating" all of the plant material from the bed that parallels the driveway before turning it over to DH for integration into his (beloved) lawn. There are some bulbs in that area that I can't locate right now, so I've warned DH to expect a show of daffodils, tulips, crocus and irises in the spring. Once they show themselves, I can move them out of the area.

    Thank god the temperatures have finally cooled down enough to be able to work outside this entire holiday weekend.
    I will post some "after" pictures in the next day or so.

    Thanks to all of you for your insight and advice.

    ......Jan

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok Folks, here are some more recent pictures. I still have not managed to remove all of the perennials from the area by the driveway (to be turned back into lawn), but I think you can see some distinct changes.

    Note: Two arborvitaes have been moved to a existing berm planted near the entrance to our undeground drainage pipe. (I also used this opportunity to purchase a Cypress "Blue Ice" to plant in the same area with my new-found understanding that it's OK to have several pyramidal(sp?) connifers together because they tend to make only one "exclamation point" when clustered)."Blue Ice" will grow to 20 feet in height, the arborvitaes should top-out at less than ten feet.

    {{gwi:43875}}

    The foundation planting has been extended beyond both sides of the house.

    {{gwi:43877}}

    {{gwi:43878}}

    I don't care what you say, I love my one year old climbing "Don Juan" rose and my trellis which DH insisted I build without any help from him. (A major "learning curve" of a project, BTW).

    {{gwi:43879}}

    I realise that the plants are still too small to really give much impact, and I still need to remove the rest of the perennials and purchase some more shrubs for the front entryway, but does the house appear to be better "grounded" now? We haven't had any rain in over a month, which has turned our yard into concrete making it extremely hard to plant anything. I even found myself hoping for at least a slight "hit" from hurricane Ophelia, but it just isn't meant to be. SIGH.........

    Anyway, any thoughts on the changes?

    ......Jan

  • Frankie_in_zone_7
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am not seeing the scale in the bed extensions. They, or the plantings themselves, anyway, would need to come out 10 feet or so, with more bulky shrubs (ultimate size) centered farther from the foundation than what you have, to achieve the anchoring that I thought you wanted. Maybe that's still in your plan--doesn't have to happen overnight.

  • kategardens
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan: Thanks for continuing to keep us posted, and for putting your plans out there for critique. I hope you are getting a benefit out of this process, because I am certainly learning a lot by reading and considering the various comments on this thread.

    You were kind to post so many photos, but is there any chance you could post one that shows a closer, more front-on view of the house, that would provide a better before and after comparison with the photos at the beginning of the thread? I suspect the pros won't have a problem 'reading' the changes, but for a humble amateur, it's hard to figure out what's going on. Reading along with interest. . . Kate

    P.S. Putting aside the question of the scale of the trellis in relation to the front of your house, that is certainly one attractive trellis! I'm very impressed you built it yourself, and am glad you posted a close-up photo.

  • little_dani
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love your trellis and your rose. Just lovely.

    Your garden reminds me of some I have seen called "Cottage Gardens".

    (NO PELTING here!)

    Have you thought of embracing this concept while your smaller shrubs grow and fill out? Would that make it more or less painful, the waiting part I mean?

    OUCH! THAT HURT!

    Just an idea. That is what these forums are for.....

    Janie

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Frankie,
    SIGH..... I was acutely aware that someone would be pointing this out. I know I need to go further out with the "wings", however, I'll only be able to do that on the right side, as the left side "wing" already buts-up against the turfstone drive we built for driveway overflow. (Also, did I mention that the yard is very "concrete-like" at the moment?) I intend to extend the bed on the right hand side another six or seven feet once a shovel can again penetrate the ground. (I have only bumped it out about six feet so far).

    Urbangardener: Thanks for your interest. Here are a few more close ups.
    house front:
    {{gwi:43880}}

    Right side "wing"
    {{gwi:43881}}

    Janie: I'm feeling your pain here (LOL). Without going into a whole "cottage" garden thing, there are quite a few perennials, alliums, daylilies, oriental and asiatic lilies, shrub roses and even some foxgloves poked in amoungst the shrubs. Also, some of the remaining perennials will be relocated to this foundation bed soon including (but not limited to) delphiniums, tall garden phlox, various rudbeckias, coneflowers, asters, catmint and siberian iris.
    ....Jan

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan: I think it is looking better, but it is kind of hard to tell a lot from the pictures. Maybe you should invite us all over for a BBQ! I think you need to be patient a let what you have mature a little. Also, make sure you are enjoying your landscape and new home!

    I know what you mean about digging in dry clay soil. I am finally getting around to removing the gravel and prepping some beds in my courtyard area (I am now calling the area a courtyard...sounds better than the term my wife and I have been using..."the gravel pit"). Do I drive an hour to borrow my brother's tiller or do I get out there with the trusty mattock? The mattock had been my tool of choice lately and at least I have some firm upper body muscles to show for it.

    I just looked out the window an IT IS RAINING! Yea!!

    - Brent

  • Frankie_in_zone_7
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't tell from the pictures, but it may still be possible for you to achieve some of that effect on the L side, though not by having the same winged-out bed--perhaps achieving more by the size of that one specimen when it grows, or some other connection to a planting farther out, or maybe something that rises up as a mass behind the turfstone.

    If you have hard clay, maybe you are expending too much energy trying to make "instant" beds. I have had success with modified lasagne-bed making; it makes it much easier to work the soil and you kind of target an area in one season that you intend to plant 6 or more months later. You could do that over the winter and plant in the spring. So one point is to try not to keep moving things around but mark off the area, build up the soil and plan to site the actual shrubs in the final correct places, to keep yourself from getting worn out.

  • laag
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is a great trellis and my favorite red climber. It is the flattening effect that combined with all the other flattening effects was what I thought could be adjusted. Not everything has/had to be adjusted, but to be aware of as much as you can helps make design decisions.

  • annieinaustin
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The rose and trellis are lovely. It's hard to tell from the picture just how the trellis is installed,
    but it does look like the stems of the rose are emerging from the soil well in front of the trellis - maybe a foot or so.

    A thought: Would it be possible to move the trellis out from the wall for just that distance?
    If you're careful, the rose wouldn't be damaged and the reflected light from the light-colored siding might encourage the rose to grow in a more columnar fashion.
    Would a rose 'pillar' have more dimension than the flattened form? It also would make some leaf shadowing on the wall behind it. What do you think?

    Annie

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Brent, No rain here. They also called off the effects of the cold front we were supposed to be getting, i.e., the temps are now going to be in the upper eighties instead of very low eighties (as had been forecast all week). I'm bummed.
    If a mattock is the same thing as a pick-axe, then it has become the most used tool in our arsenal as well. Our tiller can't do anything except scrape the surface. (BTW: How's Otto doing?)

    Frankie, Because I am a plant junkie, and because I am turning DH into one as well, we will certainly be adding more and more plants in coming months and years. The immediate problem with our ground conditions has come about due to zero rainfall for the past five weeks. Normally our soil is fairly easy to work with.

    laag, Thanks. I understand what you mean about too much of a flattening effect. I am doing what I can to re-work what's here to lessen the effect. As much as I would like to have larger specimens to start with, I can't seem to find any. So I will have to count on time, to some extent, to add more depth to the scene. Many of the shrubs we do have will (fairly rapidly) reach 4-6 feet in height and width, which should have a favorable effect on the "depth factor". During the course of this posting, I find myself staring more and more often across the street to my neighbors front yard. His is a two story brick colonial and is masterfully grounded by medium and large shrubby trees planted across the front and at the "wings" on either side. I would be sorely tempted to copy many of his plant choices if it weren't for the fact that his front yard has a northern exposure (shade) and mine is the total opposite. I can, however, try to mimic the size and forms of his plantings. If he has managed to properly "ground" a large two story colonial, then my challenge should be child's-play in comparison.

    Annie, The trellis is 10 ft. tall and 4 ft. wide and the bottom two feet are buried in the dirt. Although it is technically possible to move it, it is already at least 15 inches out from the siding (for air circulation) and I think it would look odd if it were any farther away from the wall. Still, the rose is less than a year old and will probably get much bushier as it matures and is regularly pruned. That should help to achieve the effect you describe.
    ......Jan

  • sharons2
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan, Could you add a link to some pictures of your neighbor's nicely grounded house? I would like to see it, too; but I wouldn't want to bog down this thread with a lot of irrelevant pictures.

    Sharon

  • kategardens
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Jan: Thanks for posting the additional photos. To my eye, one thing that is a big improvement between the before and after photos is moving the arborvitaes out of the foundation bed. I'm surprised to have this reaction, because I didn't mind them so much when I first saw the before photos, and because they were the tallest plants (but for the rose) in a bed that almost everyone (including you) agrees could ultimately use some larger plants. I can't quite put my finger on it, but for some reason when they were in the bed -- maybe because they mimic the appearance of many (fully grown) dwarf conifers? -- it looked to me like a bed of miniature plants set against a very large house. Now that they are gone, my eye "reads" the bed instead as being planted with young shrubs that will soon grow to a more appropriate size for the space, and I find this more pleasing. My view may be more idiosyncratic than helpful, but just wanted to pass on my .02. Good luck -- Kate

  • inkognito
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You know what jan, and I realise that this might be thinking quite 'outside the box', your efforts would look much better if surrounded by a lush green lawn. I hadn't noticed the reverse berm before but if that dip was a bump and the grass was emerald green well then.....

  • laag
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jan,

    Don't copy the plants. Copy what they do.

    A common mistake people make is to list plants when they see somethuing that is working. The form is more likely the mechanism. The plant meets that form and the cultural condition of HIS property. Copy the form, but select the plant to meet your cultural conditions.

    PS. I noticed that my Don Juan bloomed for the first time yesterday. It does not yet have a trellis. I may take a closer look at yours. It looks pretty nice.

  • janandalan
    Original Author
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sharon,
    I will try to take a picture of the neighbor's colonial in the next day or so. Keep in mind that they have lived in their home for at least five years. Our's was just built last year. Mature plantings (especially well chosen and well taken care of) will obviously look much better than immature specimens.

    Kate,
    I have to agree. I couldn't understand all the fuss over the innocent little arborvitaes either, but I have to admit that removing them had an bigger impact than I expected.

    INK,
    (SIGH......)OK. Remember: there was no lawn at all when we moved in last October. We'll get there eventually, however it's amazing how much easier it is to attain a "lush", "emerald green" lawn when it chooses to rain occasionally. (LOL)
    "Berm" may not have been the best choice of words, although the "berm" area is slightly raised above it's surroundings it is also in an area comprised of hills and dales rolling gradually down from the driveway and the neighbor's higher ground. Is it then just an "island bed" rather than a "berm"?

    laag,
    That's really what I meant. The neighbor's specific choices would be of no use to me anyway, because his are all shade-lovers. It's the form of his plantings that do such a great job. I really don't even care for the style of his house, but his foundation beds are well thought out and well cared for and serve the purpose of anchoring his house extremely well.

    I've included a link for a trellis like the one I built. I didn't bother to order the plans but rather copied the idea to my own scale. I didn't use cedar since I wanted mine painted white anyway. Watch out, your Don Juan will probably grow much faster next year, so you'd better be ready.

    .....Jan

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So Jan...how is your landscape looking this year?

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Still looking for another update if Jan is around? No pics left in the post either...
    pm2

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