this is taken from the sidewalk from the center of my lot looking to the right. I just used my mower and cut the grass lower where i thought i wanted the bed.

This is almost the same view but I defined where i wanted the bed, cut the grass even lower and then sprayed it with round-up (with tracking dye - hence the color)

This is the back side of the bed (the side closer to the house) Pic was before i sprayed but the shape is pretty much where I cut and the marking paint.

I probably won't plant anything in it this year - but i might. I really have no idea what i want to plant here. I will probably mulch it over this weekend or at least get an edge around it. The biggest problem i have is planting anything near the blue spruce because I don't know of anything in this area that looks nice for more then a couple of years (due to tree growth etc.) I would love to hear any thoughts or ideas - and no you won't hurt my feelings.

One last thing I may try and find some rocks to set in there as I love them and have used them around my yard in other areas but it is a newer house and I do not consider and of the yard fully finished - yet.

I don't understand what your "problem" is. I think it will make a nice bed. You're certainly starting off on the right foot by erradicating all of the grass and sharply defining your boundaries.

.....Jan

Is your problem that you don't know what to put in the island and you're looking for plant suggestions? I know autumn is supposedly a great time to plant things. But then you spend all winter wondering if the new plants will survive (or at least I did last winter). I've become a fan of spring planting, even though I start wanting to change things by late summer =)

I'm a newbie to lanscaping/gardening so I won't be able to help much, other than provide some morale =)

Good luck,
-Stephanie

I think the best thing that I can think of is variety within restraint. Choose plants that can offer a lot of interest to the garden year-round (not just the flowers, but leaves, growth habits, texture, colour, evergreen habit, etc. etc.) and repeat them. You'll have lots of interest, even if you don't have a lot of plants.

-Audric

- Brent

pastvast - thanks for the post - ideas for plants = yes.

bonsai - thanks for the tips and I will check out that link

grand blvd - thanks i am trying

brent - I could not plant the trees any deeper because they were dying from water not draining out of the 'clay pot' it was a bad problem that took me a little while and a few trees to figure out also it is mostly top soil around them with very little mulch but I know it also looks like @#$% and i plan to add muclh or some top soil and mulch to make the entire bed higher then the area around it. I am thinking about using some bulk mulch i can get cheap and add 6-8" then I would just plant new things next year and then maybe add another top dressing of mulch to help bring the bed level up closer to the top of the root balls of the trees.

mc kena - thanks for the tips i will do that and black eye susans are one of the plants I have been thinking about using

Cady - i'll have to look most of those plants up but I do also plan to improve the look of those trees sitting up so high as brent poined out (i guess i should have mentioned that with my fist post)

k mickleson - my wife goes to the library twice a week I'll ask her to see if they have that book - thanks

if anyone has some more plants that they think would look good the names and a picture or link would be great (or i will look them up) Also tossing the idea around of adding some rocks/boulders

I am thinking about using some rocks on the front side of the spruce on the far right to make the bed look more level in that area - the yard drops off quite a bit there and i did the same thing on another bed i am still working on. I plan to use the same plants (whatever they turn out to be)in both beds

I *think* (and I may be interpreting this wrong) that you simply don't know where to start with filling in this wonderful bed you've created. Is that right? If so, it's time to go to the library/garden society/magazines/internet searches/etc to find what will grow well in your conditions. Do you want an informal or formal look? Do you want native or introduced species? Do you want a blue/white/yellow/silver bed or an orange/red/yellow/white or a haphazard collection of all colors? Do you want plants that feed and sustain wildlife (including birds) or low maintenance? Do you want .... ? (I ran out of questions because I am not a pro :) )

Anyways, I think you have plotted out a beautiful bed and once you decide what you want, it will be gorgeous!

A (jealous) opinion from an amateur,
Ann

It is like someone building a garage with everyone talking about what a great car it will be. It should have racing stripes, hood scoops are great, gas mileage should be considered,...

Am I missing something? The bed has not even been cut yet and it is a masterpiece.

Why is it ....?

For myself, I am far more excited looking at what someone *might* be able to do than looking at what someone *has* done. It's my imagination. I think the people who are responding to this post are imagining what they would do, rather than being confined by what has already been done. It's an (almost) blank slate.

My opinion. Very likely wrong :)

Ann

Compare to the usual square beds, symmetrical soldiers, and poor choice of plants that we usually see when people ask for advice. This guy has a nice design. Nothing spectacular YET, no. But nothing bad either.

For plants, I envision lots of shrubs, small trees, or trees that can be kept pruned into a shrub shape. (i.e., I have 4 Cotinus "shrubs".) You may already have enough trees that will be big someday. Some perennials--but chose carefully for those with little maintenance and a long bloom period. Bulbs would be nice, especially the spring bloomers. Use perennials to grow over the dying foliage. Depending on which way the bed is oriented, you may have shade on one side, and sun on the other, especially if there is somewhat of a backbone of taller material.

I would have some concerns about planting straight into bark mulch that's a few months old.

laag 'This thread is like a Seinfeld episode. There is a big response to seven disjointed trees sprawled over a lawn with a nice shape mowed around it.'
even thought i think it is a little more then that now I have to say I agree with that. thats why it is posted here if I wasn't worried about it I would not be here. If i made some dream garden bed that looked perfect I wouldn't need any help.
I completly agree that i do need something that will help tie it all together - so what is it??

I thought mulch volcanos were bad for the trunks.

Understand the power of this design principle. Look at the effect it had on all of you, and rightly so.

The second thing he did that you need to take note on is that it is also visually balanced which strengthens all that you like about it.

Now what is going to reinforce that and what is going to erode that from the suggestions that everyone has made above? Are you working with him, or are you working against him?

My vision would be a minimal planting. Maybe a bench and some paths, maybe some accent boulders, and maybe a few woodland shrubs. Other than that I would mulch this area and let the trees take center stage.

- Brent

Oh goodie! This sounds like we are about to get educated. OK, I'll try. I don't mind being told why I'm wrong :)

1. Unrelated to Laag's post, if I understand correctly, the root balls of the trees are 6-8" above ground level. I think that should be addressed by raising the soil in the whole bed, making the drop-offs more gradual. I think the "volcanoes" will detract from the look.

2. If we are gushing because the trees have been united, then we don't want to destroy what we've done, therefore any plantings must have some type of unity. Not separate plantings around each tree. For example, the idea of ground covers under the trees to hide the "volcanoes" might instead make each tree look like an island (not what we want).

3. A path through the trees, as suggested above, may help tie everything together.

4.If boulders are placed, they must not look as though they are separate entities, but somehow tie in - I don't know how to do that.

5. OK, I'll go WAY out on a limb here. I think the trees should be the focal points, so we would want to be careful to not anything that will become a separate focal point, thus seeming to drive the trees apart.

OK, I'm done. I have no idea whether any of these are reasonable suggestions or not, just that I do see Laag's point that the trees have become united, so thought I would see how I do. Feel free to say everything I said is wrong!

Ann

BTW, (whether this helps or not, I'm not sure), but a very nice combo that I've seen features a 'Thomson' blue spruce and a lavender 'Tracy's Treasure' Phlox paniculata. It was in Tracy DiSabato-Aust's The Well-Designed Mixed Garden. I don't like most of her combos, though - too yellow for me, I suppose.

Sharon (not Susan) :-)

Then, taking into consideration the mature sizes of the existing trees and the conditions of shade and moisture that will exist under them, plan for a planting of a *limited* number of massed shrubs for flowers, foliage, and winter effects that will harmonized with the existing trees and surrounding plantings. No spotty plantings or flower gardens. I'm not sure I like the path idea, to me this looks like a mixed planting that is meant to be seen from the outside rather than the inside, especially since it looks like it's set in a spacious lawn. Maybe it's not.

My 2 cents. Well, am I "fer" or "agin"?

1. I am going to bring up the soil/mulch level to match or get close to where the trees are - this was my plan all along wish i would have stated it to avoid the confusion, sorry.

2. The trees look better now that there is a clear connection holding them together. even thought they looked like they were just plopped at random i was hoping to make it a bed one day - this is also one of the reasons I was not so worried about them being planted so high. the trees were also placed to help block the road and an intersection that i don't like to look at. all that aside the second point is that they clearly will look much better clumped together in a bed then with the grass breaking them up.

beside this there doesn't seem to be much agreement so here are some of my random thoughts
1. I am worried i will end up making it look to 'busy'
2. It is to close to the sidewalk and street for me to want a path bench pond or any other feature (i hope this doesn't hurt the feeling of those that had the ideas as it is not meant to)
3. I am an avid hosta grower - i only mention this because even thought i feel it is to sunny for most hostas it speaks of my style of plants - and i still get the urge to fill the entire bed with different hostas.
4. I really like using rocks and boulders and some will probably end up in or around the bed to one extent or another - this is close to certain but i will have to find some as i refuse to pay for landscape rocks - the good news is i have friends that should be able to help me here.
5. I do have a lot of plants that i could split and put in but do not want to use them just because i can for free - this goes back to #1

this is pretty much it so far i guess - i did not get the books yet but will and i am going to check that web site tonight. tomorrow (heat allowing) i am going to put some cheap mulch down that will be a good base layer and will help to get me a little closer to finish grade height (top of the tree root balls or close) the mulch i am going to get is really junk and will break down fast so i consider it close to spreading a layer of compost (which i don't have available)

one other thing that i keep thinking is that purple or dark plants may look nice with the clumps of white birch (once they get bigger) and one other thing is i am really not a big fan of yellow flowers

I want to thank EVERYONE again for their interest, posts, advise and help

i really like the cool blue look

i also always seem drawn to japanese style

i also feel i have to mention these pictures are from the link above (bressingham gardens)and here is the link to them so you can check them out along with the others there

http://www.bressinghamgardensonline.com/html/virtual8.htm

http://www.bressinghamgardensonline.com/html/virtual31.htm

but i do like them

Bloom was an expert in in creating unity so that he can get away with extreme contrasts. People tend to focus on the colors rather than what he does to get away with it. They look and see one of these next to one of those and believe that the plant combination is what captures them. But, all you have to do is look at this thread to understand that you captivated a lot of people with seven basic trees and a can of spray paint. Look at Blooms gardens and look to see what about them can compare to what you are doing. You might be surprised.

The stronger you build unity, the more you can get away with variety. Bloom does it with negative space (the lawn-just like you) and reinforces it with a base of unified texture (usually a very fine texture). He also builds the appearance of mounding (like you plan to do with actual soil) through plant mass. These are all visually balanced (something I can't begin to explain in parenthesis) much like your island is. The unity is so strong that he can go nuts with high contrast that the average bed could not support.

Rocks do not appear to be part of Bloom's repitoire, but they are very unifying if they are proportionally big enough and put in believable formations. It sounds like this is something you want to do.

Bloom's work excites people because it is both busy and relaxing at the same time. They see the busy, yet only feel the relaxation. We need to pick it apart in order to put it back together. It does not matter if you don't see it the same way as long as you find a way to break these things down into rational measurable things so that they make sense to you. Prairie is starting to do this which is a very "good thing" (can I use that term without an ankle bracelet?).

Throwing around plant names is not design. Making something happen using plants and anything else to achieve that is design.

If you have enough unity through other means, you will have difficulty making the bed look too busy. It gives you license to go nuts and get away with it. I think you instinctively already know exactly what you are doing.

PS, maybe you can help out the guy with the new walk on another thread.

Perhaps with other pictures of your yard it might feel different, but at this point your monumental trees (they will be) point to a Western US "moutainscape" to me, especially when you berm up the area. The evergreens especially. I'd look through photos of the western mountainscapes - Yosemite, Missoula, Rocky Mountains, etc - and see which appealed to me and which echoed your trees. Then add rock and a few alpine-hinting plants around the rocks (rock-garden bulbs esp.) and if you can't stand the space between the trees think about a wave of a single type of wildflower. I'd consider adding an additional tree or two to one of your plantings, so they create a clump. Evergreen clumps can be very beautiful, if used sparingly.

the one tree i'm uncomfortable with is the tall white barked one (birch?) in the middle of the bed. with this formulation of mountaintop, the "top" of the mountain would have a more bent, windblown tree. I don't know if birches can be shaped/pruned to be more interesting (a la bonsai) but perhaps you could do something with leaning the tree, pulling it off the vertical...dunno about this at all, just speculating. I think the growth rates of your trees will mean that the spruces dwarf everything else.

what kinds of stone are native to your area of OH?

a technical point, since you're considering mulch/compost:
You should try to add the soil now when the trees are young to berm the entire bed, rather than wait until their root systems are out in the larger space and you have to worry about smothering them with added soil depth. 6" of dirt for this whole bed is going to be a dumptruckload, isn't it?

I can see a few clumps of ornamental grasses and something like rudbeckias or veronicas or echinicias (sp). And then quite a bit of one kind of groundcover to tie it all together. Periwinkle, for example. Don't get too many different kinds of stuff in there -- your variety comes from all your different trees.

The guy with the new walk? I am not sure what post you are talking about. I am not sure if I would be much help unless he lives close - a have a shovel and i can use it faily well.

here is a liitle proof

I thought 6 yards would do it but this is where 8 got me - it is still not as thick as i think it should be but the trees now look 'normal' and it gives me a good base to work with next year when i put a nicer mulch on top.
I never said what thge trees were - i am sure some of you know already but there are 3 heritage birch (clump form) - 1 crimson frost birch - and 4 blue spruce

I do really like most ground covers but maybe i should rethink that a bit - i think the green of a ground cover will blend to much with the grass (breaking the unity the much bed created) anyone agree?

I have no clue what i could plant (besidea a ground cover) near the blue spruce that will still look good in a couple of years - anyone have i pic or a hint

I also saw a very large area in the bed with no trees and am thinking I should maybe plant something tall or larger there.

over all i have not given it much thought yet as I had to work this a.m. and spreading 8 yards of mulch kept me pretty busy with a couple of other things thrown in today.

I may not get the rest of the mulch tomorrow due to some plans my wife made but at least I should have a bit more time to think about what i want to do in there - maybe nothing untill next spring - that should give me a lot of time to think/plan

again thanks for everyones help and interest

should i mention i may start another bed or two near this one ;~)

I keep thinking about texas blue bonnets - if that is what they are called, maybe blue lupines (i am not at all good with plant names) - ever since i saw the blue pic above.

At the rate you're moving, I will reiterate prior recommendation [mine & others]: go to the library [or bookstore] and get Adrian Bloom's Gardening With Conifers. Many answers there. You can cluster delightfully complimentary smaller conifers near your others, as well as near the deciduous birches, offering nice winter interest. You won't regret it. Promise.

Since taking the picture below in May, the Creeping Jenny has filled in the space nicely. You can see how bright it can look in the sun and I think it is a nice accent to the green of the surrounding plants and the lawn . The hardy Geraniums bloom only sporadically now and the "Jenny" adds a nice touch of color to this spot.

Since you like blue you may want to consider a Blue Star Amsonia. That's it to the right of the Jenny in the photo above. It has a wonderful airy look and the foaliage turns a beautiful golden color in the fall. The pale blue flowers are an added bonus. Here is an overhead shot I took when it was in bloom. I would also recommend Walkers Low Catmint for a blueish flower and a greyish green leave color. I will take a picture of mine if you would like to see it. Wish my photos were better but I'm still learning the digital camera thing.

Your bed looks great with the top soil. You were not kidding about knowing how to handle a shovel. Hope it was cooler for you than it was here. Today our heat index was 104!

It reminds me more of an amoeba now, and look at that long, thin arm.... I think it's the angle of the picture, too, that's revealing flaws which were obscured by the spruce in the pictures up above.

I hope you will take this in the spirit it's meant, Greenguy. And also, remember that I'm not a pro; so now they may bop me on the head if I'm perceiving it wrong.

Sharon

P.S. I didn't mean for you to take after Bloom in using his color constrasts. Laag explained to you better than I could the similarities that I saw. I also hope you'll slow down a bit, and go check out those books.

ok that picture was very misleading hte bed is not an x at all it is hard to get a feel of it from the pictures but here is one from upstairs that should help a little bit

the way the ground falls as it goes toward the sidewalk distorts what the bed really looks like in the pictures (even this one)

I like creeping jenny - i took a small piece from a friend - when i say small i mean for or five leaves on one stem and a thread of root and threw it by my pond this spring an it has gone crazy

here is a current pic of my pond i put in last year - the creeping jenny this spring - it is not not up to par imo

trees across the street are at least 15 years old

I cut mine at 3 to 3 1/2 but never more then twice a week usually only once - never have had a problem lucky i guess - you don't mow when its wet do you? maybe you shouldn't cut so often - cut back on the nitrogen?

I would think it would help for you to make some rough sketches of the trees at more mature size. Otherwise, how will you pick the scale of the companion plantings, or even boulders, to look right several years from now? It will also be your choice as to whether you want to just plant for what things will look like a few years from now, and wait for things to fill in, or go ahead and use any part of it, including the perimeter, for any fun plantings you wish to have, such as annuals or perennials (choose those that are easy to dig up) that you can enjoy now but will move later.

Whatever you decide to plant should probably be "portable"... you'll have to move it, in lots less time than you think! OR, sell the place when that bed starts to look "nice".

We've been in our home 15 years now, and I am astonished at how qucikly things grow up and how BIG "insignificant" things get over time. It happens when you aren't "looking". Our south lawn and garden were FULL sun 15 yrs. ago... now they're "partial shade". And we never really were aware of the transformation until the Oriental lilies began blooming "later than usual". ;) The Hydrangea standards now provide enough shade for lawn chairs... it happens gradually, the Grand Canyon required eons...

So far I have planted nothing new but i am looking for a replacement for the one tree and probably two - they were the first ones planted and they were to low and choke in the 'clay pots' with to much water

i am at work now but will try to snap a pic or two when i get home
looked at a lot of books over the winter but would still welcome help

HoneyMI's landscape is, I think, a lot closer to what you are looking for. It uses a lot of hostas, is more subdued, and uses a more japanese style. She also has a lot of color in the Fall.

Sharon

--

"Your landscape is really nice, HoneyMI. I've admired it before and was going to suggest it to GreenGuy as a possibility for the thread on his Front Bed. The lilies only bloom for about 2 weeks, though; don't they?"

I think that Honey's pics are stunning but I'd like to see some taller plants inbetween the very tall trees and very low groundcovers. That is just my preference, NOT a criticism. If I was a Hosta fanatic I'd stuff as many in as possible too. I'm assuming GreenGuy's bed is too sunny at the moment.

My thoughts would be that you need some large shrubs/understory trees and then smaller shrubs and then perennials and ground covers. I tend to like a more naturalistic type of landscape when one has room. Like the concept mentioned of Rocky Mountains. Love boulders.

I think your bed is as big as my entire yard. Jealous. I see houses when I look out my windows and many with bad landscaping.

I also saw where you posted this is one of the best posts that were left - I would also say thanks but it is only a good thread due to all of the great posts from people like you so again i say thanks to you ;~)

also thanks buy or sell, the bed is not that large the one i cut in the back yard is at least three times as large. I don't think I want to overplant then pull stuff out I am patient and can think of other things to do with the money but I do know where you are coming from and have thought about it many times.

also

i wish i could movbe that lone spruce closer to the house and to the left but it is to large now so i am going to live with it there

The obvious thing to do with the lone spruce is to widen the narrow island to include it, but there must be some reason you didn't. I guess then the beds would be too close together.

Am I the only one who liked the area better without the new narrow island to the right?

If asked, I'd vote to connect the two beds, include the loner, and watch as your forest grows. I very much like the trees you have selected, and they are going to fill out beautifully.

Thanks again for the thread.

This was the first time the idea of negative space ever really made sense to me, so I can't let this thread drop off into the ether. It is simply too valuable to lose.

Sharon

I really have not done that much with it. I planted a few things and gave it a nicer layer of mulch last year and this year i have not had any time to do anything with it at all. The only thing i have done is keep the weeds out.

some of the plants have grown a lot some not as much as i would have liked/thought.

It doesn't look great right now from the lack of care and being this late in the season but i will try and get a picture of it and post it.

It will be great to get some feedback on it as i plan to do more work on it.......when i can

the only thing i plan to do to this bed this year is start limbing the trees up a bit - i have been putting it off because i like the privacy and i think they grow faster with the lower branches

not exactly what i wanted but pretty happy with it

one from the street

I hope you don't ever limb up the spruce. I also love the rock over by the house. Some of my favorite plants are rocks (j/k), but I think you know what I mean! :0)

I know what you mean about the birch - its nice to look at their trunks. Well you will figure it out.
It sure turned out very nicely
A

i have not done anything to the bed since the pics.

i would never limb up the pines only the birch - i will probably just start with a couple of the lowest branches

i rented a bed edger this spring before i mulched and did the whole yard in less then 3 hours (and that was taking my time)

i have thought about adding a ground cover but the birch roots are thich and i have not found the right thing yet.

i do have a couple of hostas planted in there because i did not have anywhere else to put them at the time and i was interested to see how they would do. they will peobablu move out at some point.

I am going to try and get another shot this year

Also, FWIW, I think the earlier idea of putting some boulders is a really good one - I think it would add some character and possibly give you ideas for some additional plantings.

Thanks for sharing your photos!
Janet

Janet, roundup will not hurt new plants once it is dry on the plants you spray. I am pretty sure i sprayed this bed in fall, waited a week and sprayed anything that was left alive and spread mulch. I am pretty sure i did not plant anything until the next spring - only because i didn't know what i was going to plant.

I have sprayed other beds and mulched the same day then planet the next and still other beds i have sprayed planted (high) and them mulched. there is no problem with roundup it does not effect the soil it only works through the foliage. The biggest concern it making sure you get everything sprayed, which can be hard in larger areas and making sure it dies which would be the only reason i see to wait

ken

lets see if i remember to post pics :~)

the lighter colored mulch is new and now connects the two beds - i will put a new edge in and lay down fresh mulch as soon as the weather permits and time

this will give a better idea on the size of the trees now - i am 6'2" and they are well over twice my height now - probably avg 20' the river birch are way more (every year i think about limbing up the birch and this year i proabably will, at least a little)

and i have to get a hosta pic in (man look at the grass :~( )

i'll try to post some more after i clean it all up and mulch - but that will be a while from now