other idea

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Here is a link that might be useful: some ideas

There is way too much red foliage concentrated in one area. It would be better and also lead the eye visually and provide continuity if it were more evenly distributed throughout the garden......this is one of the advantages of a developing a comprehensive plan before purchasing plants - you have carefully thought out/planned ahead of time what plant will work best in a specific location and what that plant adds to the overall design, rather than just buying a plant you like or see on sale and then having to hunt down an appropriate placement.

Essentially you are approaching this backwards. It is quite possible to develop a satisfactory and pleasing landscape design in this manner but it is a lot harder to do so, especially for the average homeowner. It's generally referred to as the "trial and error" method - pretty common but not the best approach :-) Personally, I'd rethink the placement of pretty much everything, researching the attributes, needs and mature sizes of all the plant components and then formulating a plan that addresses all of these criteria successfully.

After your analysis, I will remove the barberry out from the drawing and just divide/transplant my 3 year old yellow daylilies to where the barberries are now. I might transplant about 5 to 7 of them. In spring, I will buy more firewitch dianthus and put it in front of the daylilies and the the huge rock and as well in front of the roses.

I'm thinking of moving the purpleleaf sand cherry behind the yellowtwig dogwoods or maybe create an island bed. I'm thinking of putting daylilies and dianthus also.

Another plant I love is the russian sage. I've got one now. I will buy 4 more next spring.

I've attached a new plan.

Thank you so much!

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:53792}}

Regarding the dogwoods, glad to see you made the purchases, these are tough shrubs and will do well.

However, unless you really enjoy pruning alot, do not place the redtwigs near the house plus 5 are really too many, this is a shrub that grows quickly and requires a rather large area to spread. I would suggest in the back border, for contrast and winter interest, you swap out one of the yellowtwigs and replace with a redtwig.

As for the Firewitch Dianthus, pretty as it is - it has a very strong color and should be used carefully, perhaps in repeating pockets throughout the garden rather then in an overwhelming color mass. In addition, on a practical note, it's prone to rot in your area so planting a large grouping you'll most likely have a substantial loss of plants.

Just an observation, you seem to be taken with combining the following colors: yellow, blue, pink & red.

When done with some restraint these colors can really make a garden pop and add alot of interest but when overdone they can make a garden look garish. Sometimes, less is more.

hi gonativegal,

The redtwig that you see on my drawing are more than 2 years old. It was planted by the builder. I love it. It's very low maintenance. I don't even take care of it but it's very healthy. :)

Yep, I love my dianthus in front of the house. It's also very drought tolerant.

Where do you think can I put the Purpleleaf Sand Cherry?

Thanks for the advice! :)

oh, I forgot to ask about the Smokebush, what do you think about the location where I put it?

Every time I look at your plan, what I focus on is not the individual plantings but the overall shape of things. It reminds me a lot of my backyard and the reshaping of the lawn I did this past spring (See link below). Perhaps IÂm falling into the Âif your tool is a hammer, all problems look like nails trap but I canÂt help but think that what we did to our backyard would work beautifully in your space too. IÂd move the plantings you plan for that little island bed back into the corner and smooth the edges of the perimeter beds to make the lawn into a formal rectangle. In the space on the top, right side where the house does the L, IÂd make a small patio or lawn with surrounding small beds to create a separate smaller space that mimics the larger lawn and beds.

ThereÂs an often-expressed view that Âformal doesnÂt suit most North American residential landscapes because our lifestyles are usually Âinformal and the landscape should reflect that. That seems to be at least part of what drives the impulse to make wavy-edged beds because they are seen as more Ânatural and informal. For a time, I subscribed to that general view too but, over the past few years, became increasingly dissatisfied with the result, without being able to sort out what I needed to do differently. Last winter I grappled with what to do to improve our backyard and, when I took the suggestion to try shaping the lawn as a rectangle and scribbled it in on my drawing of the backyard, it was a ÂYes! ThatÂs it! moment that continued and strengthened after it made the transition from paper to the actual changes to the backyard. Visitors to the yard this year tended to stop dead in their tracks as they came into the backyard through either of the alley gardens ,with Wow! or ÂOh myÂ! being the usual response. They were reacting in part to the unexpectedness of it, but also because they (like we) found it beautiful. The plantings are important too but the first reaction is just to the shape of it and the overall effect of the harmony of formal and informal together.

I have been giving some thought since to why it works and seems perfectly suitable in this North American context. The settling of North America is often seen as a taming of the wilderness but the wilderness, a fearsome thing for early settlers, has now come to be valued and in need of protection from too much ÂtamingÂ. What is needed is a harmonious marriage of wilderness and ÂcivilizationÂ. I think the formal lawn surrounded by a Âwild garden is an appropriate metaphor for a happy merger of the two and thus perfectly suitable in the North American context. The open, smooth lawn offers plenty of space for informal recreation and the paths through the Âwild garden offers places to explore and escape from Âcivilization when one feels inclined for a little wilderness adventure :- )

Try it, maybe youÂd like itÂ. (By the way, what software are you using...

I've also watched the evolution of Virtuosity's plans though I haven't participated, and Woody, I think I might disagree with you on this. I'm not sure why, though. It might have something to do with the provenance of both the site and the person, and to be honest also with the way the plans in question are presented. Virtuousity's plan is presented in sharp outline (and I bet the edges of the beds will be crisply maintained!) while the photo of your rectangle shows that, though linear, it has soft edges and rounded corners.

Also, to the extent that designing a garden represents a journey of sorts, I suspect Virtuosity is a fairly linear kind of a guy (leavened as it is with humour and a lively curiosity and receptiveness, this is far from being a bad thing!) and that the wavy boundaries represent a beneficial softening of his natural approach and what might be a fairly angular environment if the lot shape and house shape are any indication.

So I remain a fan of the curves... but still have no advice on plant placement, as I am not that familiar with a lot of the material you're using.

KarinL

I wasn't saying the curves were wrong, just that maybe it would be interesting to explore another alternative, one that I think is undervalued because the prevailing accepted view is that curves are better. Virtuosity seems a virtuoso with whatever software is being used so I thought maybe he (she?) could have some fun playing with another option over the winter and, who knows, maybe he'd like it.... From what I can see from Virtuosity's drawing, our lots are very similar in size, with mine being a tad smaller.

Re edges, yes, the edges are 'soft' between the lawn and path because the path material helps keep the grass under control - so far at least. A trench edge would also be a hazard for me walking on the path. If I needed a 'hard' edge between the grass and the path, I think I'd use the Curve-Rite metal edge I used with the brick edging elsewhere in the garden. I would sink the edge right against the lawn and then backfill on the path side with the path material. That would stop the grass but leave the same look as it is currently. The lawn rectangle is rounded on the corners in part because it just looks better but mainly because it makes walking around the corner easier since you don't have to do an abrupt turn at the corner as you would need to with a sharp corner.

hi woodyoak,

Thanks for the advice. I actually don't know how to say it in a nice way. Sometimes what we write gets interpreted differently. But don't get upset, I don't like rectangular beds. I want something that's natural looking. I'm really happy with what I am designing right now.

Right now, it may not look nice but as I make the changes and slowly learn from my mistakes, it will get better, hopefully, hehehe. To me, gardening is not an end state but it's a process. I also still try to incorporate whatever my heart and eyes desires. I really do love the curves(arch shapes) although I've minimized them. I've seen some gardens with very minimal curves and I thought it was gorgeous.

Anyways, I really appreciate your advice. About the software, I'm using Visio. However, I make my own objects. I also use Photoshop.

V1rtu0s1ty is a he. :D

Thanks again!

Here is the latest update on my plan. I changed some objects and used real images to see how plants will contrast with other plants/shrubs.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:53794}}

I'm not upset that you don't like the rectangle idea :-) I definitely agree that gardening is a process. Ideas and tastes evolve over time. I too started years ago with the bias towards 'natural' but have, over time, moved to simplier shapes. The move this spring to the formal rectangle was a bit of a revelation because it made such a startling difference in how the garden looks and has affected how we look at the rest of the garden and plans for future changes. It has also brought into clear focus why I like certain gardens and writings. William Robinson's classic The Wild Garden has always been a favorite book of mine. When I read a biography, it was noted that many people were surprised to find a formal rose garden at his Gravetye estate. I'm not at all surprised now and, thinking back on The Wild Garden, he clearly saw formal and 'wild' as making beautiful and harmonious companions. And I now see why....

Looking at the evolution of your plans, especially version 10, it would not surprise me at all if you find yourself somewhere down the road with a more formal shape to your garden! Wherever you end up, enjoy the process of getting there....

I have another suggestion that maybe you'd be more interested in... Consider making the beds much deeper and putting paths through the beds. The beds that border my lawn are 15' or so at the narrowest (on the north side) and otherwise 20-30' deep and there are paths running through them in various directions (as shown on the scribled drawing on that link to the back lawn). There are several advantages to the deep beds and paths: deeper beds allow for more layers from back to front so there's less of a feeling of things being lined up in front of a fence; the paths make maintenance access for weeding, deadheading, mulching, pruning, dividing or whatever much easier; paths add an element of attraction in that a path is an irrestible lure for visitors - they want to follow them to see where they go/what's hidden in there - kids particularly like to explore, run, and play along them; there's nothing quite like being IN the garden when you are in the garden! From a distance (e.g. viewed from the house or lawn) you see an overview of the garden but to appreciate individual plants, you need to be up close, and paths allow you to get close and see a different aspect of the garden. The drawback of course is that the deeper beds require more plants so that is a cost in money, time and labour but is something that is very definitely worth it in the end.

I was going to ask this last time already: what is the Julie line?

KarinL

Before we start planting, we have to call Julie. Julie then calls NICOR, COMCAST, etc to inform them to mark the areas in our property where they put their gas lines, cable lines, etc. This way, we know where to plant and not accidentally hit any critical lines. Actually, they told us that their lines are like 24 to 28 inches deep. So it's for safety measure. :)

woodyoak, I quite agree with deep beds. It's in my plan. :)

I can't remember if you've mentioned kids at all i.e. do you need to plan for play structures to nestle them into the landscape somewhere? What about a garden shed?

It took us 8 years to get to where we are now with the backyard. We sort of ad libbed to a vague plan that lived in my head :-) I'm enjoying watching your plan develop because it's making me think about what I've learned from what we did here. When you're in the midst of doing things, you get caught up in the doing and don't always take the time to step back and assess it to figure out what is driving you to do the things you're doing!

Thank you for your posts because they've been of use to me too.

I have a plan for the shed. I actually saw a pergola that really attracted me. I took a picture of it. It's still in my wife's cellphone. Problem is, she doesn't have the cable to transfer to the computer. LOL. I'll check later because that picture was taken like 5 months ago.

About the kids area, I really didn't plan where to put the playset. I just assembled and put it at the back. Using my current design, it's to close to the west and south beds. I need to move it. I'm not sure if that is considered play structures though.

I'll do my best to extract the picture from her cellphone. I like the pergola setup with the plants around it. I'm not sure though if it was placed in a proper or correct location. My eyes tell me it's just simply gorgeous.

Here it is. I wasn't aware that she bought a cable for my daughter. They have the same phone.

Anyways, the pergola that I was really interested is the one far back.

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and I'll make something similar to this but not to fancy. :)

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The question is: would it be nice if I put it on the side just like from the picture above?

It's certainly a beautiful structure - one of those things where you'd actually feel reluctant to grow any vines on it and hide the structure itself! It seems more like a summerhouse than an arbour sort of thing. I have seen some of the fancy houses on Lakeshore here with something quite similar to that. They seem to be placed beside the house, almost like an extension of the house, although I think they are actually used as entrances to the backyard. I'll have to pay more attention the next time we pass by one :-) I don't ever recall seeing anything actually growing on them. Perhaps some of the pros here will weigh in and say how those sorts of structures are usually used/placed.

The pergola is stunning. Who would not want such a feature in their landscape? And yet, I think many amateurs will find it difficult to successfully use one.

It's about balance of visual power. Remember we talked about a balance of scale, size and proportion of bed space to lawn. This is a little like that. The pergola is a very strong visual element. Plunk it down in the middle of a lawn and it become over dominate, too much. Rather than a pleasing focal point it's more like a spot light shined in one's eyes.

In my opinion, there are two ways to use such a feature. The first is to disassociate the pergola from the rest of the landscape in a way that makes it a space unto itself.

We have all seen a single huge tree in a space too small. The effect is not good. But if there is a multitude of huge trees that engulf the entire space, we have a forest, a space unto itself. And that works.

Consider a pergola between a house and a tall wall or hedge such that it takes up all of the space. Use other tricks to disassociate the pergola from the rest of the landscape like a grade change, or plantings. Like being in or out of the forest, the pergola becomes a space unto itself. In a similar way the pergola can be made an extension of the house. Set the pergola to a grade almost even with the house floor level then disassociate the pergola from the landscape with a different grade. Control of human perception is a tricky thing.

The other way to use the pergola is to make it a part of the landscape. Here the challenge is to balance the visual power of the pergola to that which surrounds it. Space alone helps to dilute the dominance of overly strong elements to the landscape. It's much easier to do a successful design in a larger area rather than a smaller one. Then other features are selected that have a strong visual factor to complete the landscape, such as stone walls, large boulders, water features, larger plants with a strong contrast of form or color, or larger beds with a dense full look. When right, the pergola will still be the focal point, but it will fit within its surroundings.

If you do the pergola I suggest you spend a lot of time looking at photos of similar strong elements in gardens that you like. Then play close attention to the other associated elements that make it work.

Thanks again pls8xx! I will do make some designs sometime this week. I will post it here. Hopefully someone can comment about it.

I saw a very nice book at HD last night about landscaping. I saw some very cool ideas. I'm thinking of buying it. I think it's worth it.

Thanks!

I still haven't worked on the pergola plan yet. What I did today is took a picture of my yard then pulled some images from the web that matches what I have in the plan then superimposed each image to my backyard picture.

Honestly, I really like how it came out. I'm hoping that the real will look similar to this next year. Hehehe. :D

Btw, that circle thing there is a firepit.

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Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:53796}}

My first glance at this picture, and I thought the levee broke and your place was indunuated!

What is the flood stage for the swale behind your house?

Nice mixture of colors and textures in the layout.

I thought the builder did a great job in the swale. I've never seen any flooding in the area for the past 2 years even with the very hard more than a day rain. However, when that happens, the empty lot sometimes gets flooding(doesn't reach mine) but the empty lot beside it gets more flooding.

Good news is that the builder is building a new house beside us. That means, there are 2 new houses being built, the one you see in the picture and the other one north of me.

I spoke to the builder like a month ago and they told me that they're going to put topsoil(for grading) sometime around in spring. The person was so nice that he would give me some topsoil for the beds I am creating. :)

Thanks for the kind words.

That should read "Bad news is the builder is building a new house beside us".

Go down to the bank and get ten $100 bills. Go out to a windy area and throw that money up in the air. Watch it fly away. That's my rough estimate of the value of having a vacant lot next door that can serve as access to your back yard.

One of the first drawings you presented to the forum included a patio behind your house. I would bet money that at some point you will want to build something like that. Can you still do it after the backyard access is severely limited? Yes. If concrete is needed back there, it can be pumped. Wall block, pavers, and stone can be moved with a wheelbarrow. Fill dirt can be moved in small quantities. All done at much more expense than if it were just trucked to the back yard.

I would suggest you go back to the base map phase and complete it by adding the vertical information. Then do a rough general design of what you might like to have for a patio and what the grades will need to be to accommodate it. Then go forward with as much as budget will allow before the access goes away. Just getting the right amount of any needed fill dirt hauled can be a substantial savings.

I have another idea regarding the dirt that will be dug. Scatter it on the beds. That will save me some money.

Regarding the patio, we also had one on our old house. They used bobcat forklift to move the Unilock palette to the back. I was lucky that the equipment fit although they had to drive slowly. It was 26x18 including 2 pillars and I only paid $3k. That was 3 years ago though. Not sure how much it will cost now.

Oh, I'm not sure what you meant by vertical information. I've never used this term.

And yep, I'll go back to my drawing and I'll do a rough design on my patio. Hopefully, I'll be able to post it sometime this week. :)

Thanks again.

pls8xx,

Thank you for so clearly explaining the whole pergola issue. I adore pergolas, but I've been having such trouble figuring out a good place for one in my yard. Now I realize why I'd been gravitating toward having it right next to the house or on the edge of the wood (where we really don't need the added shade anyhow). With such a permanent structure you don't want to get it wrong.

newbiehavinfun,

I'm glad you found my comments useful, but keep in mind it's just an opinion made without the benefit of any education in such matters. I've never felt reluctant to say what I think for the reason that very bad advice that is false or misleading almost always draws fire from those more schooled in design. Even false statements, once debunked, can be educational. Statements that don't don't draw fire can usually be taken as having some merit.

v1rtu0s1ty,

What I meant by "vertical" was the relative elevation of the ground and structures of the property. Gathering and displaying this data on your plan will aid you to anticipate what will work best for a patio grade, where and how steps may be needed, whether the finished slopes would be appropriate for the intended use, and most important ... where the water is going.

Take a look at the photo in the thread "How would you get rid of this water problem". Compare that photo to your own plan. Can you see where your plan is likely to cause the same problem?