Georgia vines has them:

Here is a link that might be useful: Georgia vines

If you are in California, I'd be happy to send you something if my cuttings root (cuttings are trickier/slower than other Brugmansias). I've had them in water for a while (laziness, really) and they've looked like they are about to root for a while. I need to move them to perlite/peat, which is how I've always rooted B. sanguinea before. If those don't work I can try more later in the year.

However, unless you live in zone 9 in California (or possibly Oregon), you will find this plant very difficult or impossible to grow, let alone bloom. Even in California, it's only really possible close to the coast (or the SF Bay). This is what I’ve consistently heard--if anyone succeeds with this plant in the deep South I would love to hear it.

Even Georgia Vines, which I would fault at stretching things in terms of Passiflora hardiness, says in their page (that Kayjones links to): “Please do not buy these seeds if you plan to grow them in high humidity areas unless you have a greenhouse or other shelter to keep them from high humidity.” “Humidity” isn’t the problem (and greenhouse aren't typically used to protect plants from it). These plants grow great along the California Coast, where it is typically very humid and often foggy. There’s a famous intensely red one (I’ll give a link at the bottom) in foggy Mendocino on the North Coast, where the average summer high is in the low 60s. It’s dew point, not humidity per se that’s a problem, so those areas that get hot days, especially those with warm nights (above 60) typical of high dew points are problematic. This is most of the country, of course...

I was having a conversation recently with someone in the Bay Area who is well known in the Brugmansia community. He voiced the opinion that Brugmansia sanguinea was "impossible" in San Jose. I have seen a sizable one growing in Palo Alto, which is almost as hot, and I grew B. sanguinea for a while and grew and bloomed the Strybing vulsa (vulcanicola x sanguinea) for a while in a location between those two cities. San Jose's average summer temps are low 80s/mid 50s.

I do have a small plant in my current location, 25 miles S. of San Francisco. It bloomed in May and took off the summer due to our "heat" (average high 75). I'm trying to propagate it right now, but it's on my list of plants that I won't send to climates with hot summers (i.e. summer days much over 80 or nights over 60), unless they have a cooled greenhouse. Again, this is not an uncommon species--seeds and plants are available on Ebay, plants at places like Annie’s Annuals. If someone in the Deep South has succeeded with this plant out of the many who have tried, I’d love to hear it.

Unless you live in coastal California, the reason you've never seen the plant growing in people's yards or for sale in nurseries is not that it's rare, but that it won't grow there.

There are a lot of really stunning Brugmansias out there, so even if you can't grow this one there are many other amazing ones. And they are scented... There are also some nice Iochromas that are heat tolerant.

If you do decide you need to buy one, Annie's is a good source, but they only sell them some of the year. Their shipping is high, pretty much requiring a larger order. Potato Rock on the North Coast might also be a good source if they have it (they just sold a couple on Ebay). I suspect in the future Grassy Knoll Exotics will be a place to look for interesting B. sanguinea cultivars. If you are in California and want a plant soon, you should special order it through a good nursery. At least one of the wholesalers (Suncrest) carries it. I found mine (the 'Pasachoa' clone) at a San Francisco nursery last December, in bud, 1 gallon for $9.

Here is a link that might be useful: Intensely red Brugmansia sanguinea in Mendocino (not my photo)

Randy's right, the Sphaerocarpium (cold group) brugs just don't do well in high heat and humidity. I've been able to grow sanguineas (red) but have been unable to get them to bloom. The only cold group brug that blooms for me is the arborea and that only blooms in the late fall and winter in the greenhouse. I couldn't even get a vulcanicola to last a full season, much less get it to bloom. I even cooled the greenhouse over the summer with fans and a mister but didn't have any success. On the other hand, if you are in costal CA, the sanguinea should grow beautifully for you.

Sorry to hijack your thread. Hopefully someone will respond/react by offering you something interesting.

With a lot of plants, there should be a practice of listing the heat zone, along with the USDA zone. It's just as crucial in many cases. They go by days over 86, while the temperature at night is actually more important in many cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardiness_zone#AHS_Heat_Zones
http://www.ahs.org/publications/heat_zone_finder.htm

I haven't seen a number listed, but I would expect that B. sanguinea would be rated best in heat zones 1-3 (up to 14 days above 86) and probably borderline in zone 4 (15-30 days).

There is of course great interest in making the reddest possible non-sanguinea Brugmansia. I am not at all up on what's been made, but perhaps Karyn or someone else is.

If you do live in zone 9 Texas/Gulf Coast/Florida you might consider contacting Liz Fichtl at Arghya Gardens in Florida (http://www.arghyagardens.com/index.php/contact/). My impression is she is interested in the redder hybrids. She sells both seeds and plants and has attempted B. sanguinea (she's zone 10). She's also extremely nice and helpful (and funny). I would expect her to be helpful even if you don't plan to buy from her.

One consideration with B. sanguinea itself is that the flowers are not always deep red (which is why the Mendocino plant is well-known). The clone that I grow, which was sold as 'Pasachoa' is reddish orange, depending on the picture. I linked to a photo at the bottom where it looks more orange (I've since repotted the plant...). Annie's sells seedlings, and they "warn" that some may turn out yellow. Interestingly, one of their seedlings that I've seen, a great plant at Flora Farm Nursery in Half Moon Bay, CA, has very orange flowers. I need to get a photo.

Here is a link that might be useful: Brugmansia sanguinea 'Pasachoa' in May

Randy, I don't like Arghya Gardens because you have to bid on a plant - can't just buy it!

Hi,
I had this one a couple of years ago, and I grew it basically as a houseplant that went out for the summer. I had it 2 years (this is the second year pic) --the EX got it in the divorce --so I dont know how it fared after that sorry....
But if you really like it -it doesnt hurt to try to push the cultural limits. I grow many things in Southern WI that shouldn't do well here.
Mike

Kayjones, I agree--I'm not a big fan of auctions unless they are "buy it now". Things go either for too much or for too little. Recently an Impatiens that is available locally for $4 went for $152! Liz did have an online (non-Ebay) store set up earlier this year...I thought. Maybe she changed her mind??

Mike,

That plant is gorgeous. It sounds like the ex got the good stuff.

What exactly were your "houseplant" conditions--was it grown under lights?

The only (other) B. sanguinea I'm personally aware of that bloomed East of the Rockies is Barb's (rosepedal), also in Wisconsin. Both Karyn and I know her. She grew the plant in a greenhouse, and then outside in the summer, if I remember correctly.

If someone lives in Houston or Miami, a comparable situation to growing it inside/outside in WI would be to grow it inside in for half the year (the warm part) and outside for the other half. Perhaps that would work.

A comparable situation (essentially) to growing it outside all year in a climate like that would be to grow it outside all year in WI. You will fail.

Remember that many plants growing in places such as 10,000 ft in the Andes never experience 75 degrees in the wild. Experiencing that as a low temperature on a daily basis for months is not compatible with survival, any more than subjecting them to -30 F is.

Growing it outside all year would not simply be a case of pushing the cultural limits. It would be throwing away money. A quick look suggests people have been selling these guys for $25-$35 a plant. If someone could somehow do the calculation for money spent per Brugmansia sanguinea flower, East of the Rockies and South of the Mason-Dixon line, it would be frightening.

Trying to grow the highland tropical plants outside all year in zone 9-10 East of the Rockies is not a new problem. It's been tried again and again, and for many/most species fails repeatedly. A lot of money is thrown away that could be spent on other, equally interesting plants.

I am happy to send such highland tropical plants to people in the upper Midwest, upstate New York, New England, etc. who either have greenhouses or or skilled at growing under lights and can grow outside in the summer. Those people sometimes succeed. People trying to grow them outside all year in the Deep South, because they are zone 9/10, fail. They fail except for a limited number of species. This is not one of them.

p.s. Mike, the Uncarina is doing great, except the squirrels partially uprooted it a couple days ago..

I didnt pay anywhere near that--I got it as a 8-10 inch stick in a plastic bag in a box like they sell cheap perennials at the big box stores. It would have been in that SE corner of windows in the fall, and when the leaves dropped it went to the basement next to the lights. It was a cool basement the phalaenopsis loved it.
Mike

Ladebugz, apologies again for hijacking your thread. I really think people need to realize that they can't just plant this in the ground because they are zone 9 or 10 and expect to succeed. Hopefully if someone is annoyed they will respond by sending you something. If not B. sanguinea, I would vote for the reddest non-sang Brug out there, or a red Iochroma.

Mike, I have had reasonable success rooting cuttings, generally tip cuttings and likely smaller than those you bought. However they were fairly slow. If you do a search for Brugmansia sanguinea cuttings I think you'll find many consider cuttings of this species as very difficult. My $25-$35 figure was based on the fact that it is being sold on Ebay right now for $25, and Georgia Vines appears to offer plants for $35. Potato Rock sold plants on Ebay for $13. Typically their prices are very good. There is someone online (Eclectic Plants) selling plants for $18 or two unrooted cuttings for $11 (with steep shipping). It looks like those except for the current Ebay $25 plants were in the past.

The thing is, heat intolerance is an issue for all sorts of plants from the high elevations in the tropics, not just Brugmansia sanguinea. Orchid growers have figured this out, and nobody would buy a bunch of orchids that were rated as exclusively cool/cold growers from >2500 meters in the Andes to grow outside in Houston, New Orleans or Miami. Those include the orchids that grow side by side with B. sanguinea in the Andes--plants such as cool-growing Masdevallias and Draculas.

A friend who is well known in the plant world and used to be President of one of the international plant societies told me a few years ago in an email why he was building a cooled greenhouse for some of his plants. This was near San Jose, with summer temps around 80/55. This is what he said:

"I'm also hoping to be able to grow some of the Andean highland plants that can grow up in San Francisco. I find that the south bay still gets way too warm in the summer for most of these plants to really survive. I've killed more Brugmansia sanguniea than I'd care to mention."

This is a different person than the Brugmansia grower I mentioned above who said San Jose is "impossible".

I have asked in forums in the past if anyone knows of Brugmansia sanguinea planted outside in the Deep South that blooms. I have searched extensively online myself. I have no evidence such a plant exists.

Since this has already gotten way out of hand, I thought I would post what might be a good alternative to Brugmansia sanguinea for many people wanting a red Brugmansia.

I've thought about buying this plant, and don't really have room. I may still get one if I can convince myself I can grow it tall and narrow (partly as a support for vines). Ladebugz, if I get one, you are more than welcome to a (rooted) cutting.

This is Iochroma fuchsioides (I. coccinea). There are other red Iochromas, although I don't know them all offhand.

This is essentially a Brugmansia, but with smaller flowers (tons of them). In SF, at least, it makes a tree, 15 feet or so, and appears to be constantly covered with flowers. I don't have a decent photo of that (search Strybing Iochroma to see some), but I do have photos of plants that I saw in the last month and did not buy.

Here's one that was $10 for a 1 gallon at last month's Strybing (SF Botanical Garden) sale:

{{gwi:67226}}

And more a couple weeks ago at Annie's Annuals ($5.50 at the nursery, more online):

{{gwi:67227}}

There are also two sources online that are very reasonable: $7, and appear to ship at cost.

Potato-rock (Ebay, they also have an online site) this link will be short lived:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Iochroma-fuchsioides-CORAZoN-DEL-POLLO-Plant-/160892155988?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0amp;hash=item2575eb7854

Sweet Nectar Nursery:

http://www.sweetnectarnursery.com/index.php?main_page=product_plant_info&products_id=522

The Ebay seller Strange Wonderful Things, has a great description, as always:

http://www.strangewonderfulthings.com/126.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: Iochroma fuchsioides from Sweet Nectar Nursery (link repeated from above)

The iochromas are very easy to grow and very nice in their own right but if you are looking for a brug bloom I just don't think an iochroma will do it for you. Iochroma blooms are very small and don't have any fragrance. I have a few iochromas and some get quite large. What I do like are the blue and purple blooms which you can't find on a brug.

Karyn,

Of course Brugmansia sanguinea doesn't have fragrance, either. And some people might prefer small blooms to no blooms at all...

If one expects a "Brugmansia" from an Iochroma, one would be disappointed. However, the Iochroma fuchsioides is typically more spectacular at Strybing than the Brugmansia sanguinea. I suspect it would get the vote of the hummingbirds.

Karyn, what are the non-cold group Brugmansia hybrids that are closest to red? If one lives in an area with warm/hot summers and really wants a Brugmansia-sized flower that's presumably an option. If one really wants red, then maybe an Iochroma...

I might make it out to Half Moon Bay today, although driving there in October can be a nightmare (they are famous for pumpkins). If so, I'll take a photo of what might happen if one grows B. sanguinea from a seed/seedling. Again this is an Annie's seedling that is a (beautiful) orange.

Here's Acnistus/Iochroma australe at Annie's, one of a couple plants sometimes called the "Blue Brug". Somewhere I have photos of their big plant. This partly shows how small cutting-derived plants can bloom. These were $9.95 at the nursery.

{{gwi:67229}}

My Iochroma grandiflora at my old location (bought at Strybing Arboretum). I prefer this over most Brugmansias. {{gwi:67231}}

I prefer the second plant, but it's harder to find at the moment.

Mark you are so lucky to have a nursery near you that carries such beauties !

I went to Half Moon Bay today. The normally 20 minute trip was well over an hour. Next weekend is their festival, so it will be much worse.

I stopped by Flora Farm Nursery, where I took some pictures of their Brugmansia sanguinea. The owner told me a while back that it was an Annie's seedling. I mainly want to show that not all seedlings turn out red. If you are looking for a red one, stick to a cutting from a known clone.

{{gwi:67233}}

I also went to Half Moon Bay Nursery. They carry a good selection of plants from Annie's and they had Iochroma coccinea/fuchsioides at a good price. It's true, one would not confuse this for a Brugmansia. The flower is tiny. The blue/purple Iochroma grandiflora (above) looks more like a Brugmansia to me.

{{gwi:67235}}

I want a plant that is tall and thin, at least for the first few feet, so that it takes up little space and vines can climb it. So I cut off the second largest shoot and turned it into cuttings:

{{gwi:67237}}

I'll offer these for postage if any root. If they don't I'll try again--it looks like the plant wants to send up shoots from about 2 inches up. Possibly there will be seed as well, same deal. If ladebugz wants a rooted cutting or seed, she can have it.

Of course, if anyone has a reddish (non-sanguinea) Brug they can root cuttings of that would also make sense.

I found the post at the bottom very informative about the reddish non-sanguinea Brugmansias.

Perhaps someone who grows one of these can spare cuttings?

Here is a link that might be useful: Dark Pink/Red Brugs thread from Brugmansia forum

My Super Spot is the darkest pink that I have but there's likely some newer cultivars that might be darker. I've already cut my Super Spot back but I do have seeds from a Super Spot x Sam. Randy I. grandiflora is my favorite blue too. The white australe also has beautiful blooms and they are bigger then the blue variety.