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10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Posted by chemocurl zone 5/6 S IN (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 13, 08 at 9:45

or things that are good to know here at The Seed Exchange.

As the winter starts to head in, I have started to think once again about doing some work on the existing FAQ.

What do you think the biggie things are that one should know if they are a first timer, or newbie here at The Seed Exchange.

1. How does The Seed Exchange work?...or something similar. The answer would be a combination of the blurb taken from the top of the The Seed Exchange Page as well as incorporating 'some' of the Special Instructions for Exchanges It would explain that the Discussion side is for actual trades, or seeds for postage offers, and that the Conversation Side is for addressing any questions about Seed Trading, or for just chit chat about gardening, or even other things.

2. GETTING STARTED: I have no seeds to trade, but would like to be a part of the Seed Exchange. What can I do?
reply would suggest looking for and responding to generous 'offers' of seeds for postage, buying a few commercial seeds cheaply, offering up seed baggies, etc. Also include a link to The Seed Saving Forum and also to the FAQ at the Seed Saving Forum A link to the latest big offering could even be provided, like Bakemom's present offering, until it is over. The link could then be removed.

3. What is an SASE, SASBE, BEAP?
With an explanation that it is actually a bubble envelope and postage mailed to the offering member, and including inside return postage, a return address label (or a piece of paper containing one's name and addy that the offering member can tape on the envy for its return trip), along with anything else the offering member requests, ie, their member name, and possibly a list of what was wanted or previously agreed to.

4. Where is My Trade List page, and how do I add things to it? Should I list seeds I would like to receive even if I don't have anything to trade right now? Why?

5. Where do I buy bubble envelopes, and what size should I buy? Are they then reusable? Do I 'have' to buy and use bubble envelopes? Can I just use bubble wrap in a regular envelope?
List numerous places where bubble envelopes envies can be bought and suggest sizes...plus more.......the Great Debate!

6. How much does postage cost to mail a bubble envelope??????????????
hmmm...not gonna start twitching now by going into too much detail, but it might be something like Mailing costs for Bubble Envelopes (BE)

7. Members say there is no way to email me, or that my email is blocked. What does that mean, and how do I fix it so I can easily be reached by members for trading or responding to seeds for postage offers?

Over the next few months I will be asking for more input/help, picking everyone's brains.

just thought of this...maybe?
8. I have questions and don't see the answers anywhere. Who or where can I ask?
Suggest using the Conversation side of the Seed Exchange, and maybe doing a search via the search box found just below the list of threads on page one. If no answer is readily found, just feel free to ask by starting a new thread on the Conversation side.

Please phrase your suggestions here in the form of questions, if possible. Feel free to post your answer as well, even if just abbreviated like above.

Whatcha all think? Anybody still with me?

Tia

Sue...resident busy body



Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Hey Sue! This is looking good! You got a great start already!
We will have lots of great info when we combine everything found in this thread and the other one! :)


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

What is the best way to seal the bubble envelope? Tape works better than using the seal that is provided on the envelope. The tape is easier to open and less likely to result in the mailer being torn, which extends the life of the bubble mailer to be reused over and over again.

Sue what would we ever do without you?

Fran


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

What is the best way to seal the bubble envelope? Tape works better than using the seal that is provided on the envelope. The tape is easier to open and less likely to result in the mailer being torn, which extends the life of the bubble mailer to be reused over and over again.

I'm thinking that there will likely be a catagory for Hints and Tips. I think the above would be a great tip.

I do have another question....think now back to when you were a newbie, and put on your thinking caps. Hopefully some real live newbies will stop by and reply too.

Did you find out or have to learn anything the hard way? If so, what was it?
Losing threads you started?
Losing replies you made to threads?
Trouble keeping track of multiple trades at once?

Sue


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

The thing that pops to mind for me was mailing and postage cost,but we will be covering that.I tried using bubble wrap and white envy and had one returned ripped to shreds,I was happy it ripped the addressee off ,so it came back to me and was never delivered.I never used anything but a bubble envy again,except on rare occasions when both parties agree it is ok for one pack of small seeds.

I lurked alot in the beginning,reading threads and paying attention to how it was done,that was a huge help. Not that I didn't make any mistakes,but I think I would have made more if I hadn't been reading up! ;)

I think we should encourage newbies to lurk a bit,I think it would help them feel more at ease when they start,maybe already feel familiar with a few of us and know who they can come to for help.

You know I always like trading with the newbies and many of them do ask me for help or tell me what is troubling them. Definition of SASBE and how to mail one, how to set up a trade list, seed count and packaging seem to be the most common. So we have alot of important issues already covered. I am going to survey some off the newbies I have dealt with and see what they think also.


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Seed count
how to package

I'm thinking several of the existing FAQ could be incorporated into one or two, or answered via links to some of the FAQ over at The Seed Saving Forum.
little seed baggies and where they can be found and cost
little coin envelopes-where and cost

links to different printable seed packet websites and/or
Endless supply of seed envelopes
for hints and tips


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Sounds good. I really think the packaging tips could come in real handy,so many people live green now and may not like to buy the plastic envies,so it would be nice to share the recycled paper option with them from the beginning,keeping them in their comfort zone! ;)

I use the paper folding envy alot now,especially for fresh seed or when I run out of my plastic ones,I love the plastic envy,I like to see the seeds.

As for seed count,that is one we really need to explain better. Some folks have read the FAQ and still have loads of questions,and I really do think that is something that intimidates alot of new traders,it did me. I thought when I sent seeds out they were going to be put under a microscope and if they were short I would be banned from trading...lol..I was so nervous about appearing stingy with common seeds. Maybe we could give some examples of seeds,like:


"All these are average amounts"
FLOWER1 = 25 seeds or more
FLOWER2 = 12 seeds or more
FLOWER3 = tip of a teaspoon
RARE = 2-10 seeds

Something like that. I think using more commonly found seeds as examples would be the best way to start,being this is what most new members start with.Maybe even give a few examples of Rare ,hard to find and a pain to harvest seeds.


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Gathering thoughts and data on seed count was what was 'really' behind me asking Fewer than 25 seeds???
but stressing of course that posting amounts, other than 25 or more, are suggested. Communication is so important so no one ends up disappointed.
I guess one might say that 25 (or more) is the commonly traded amount for maybe the majority of seeds, and then list several things that might be exceptions, and why.

Who really expects 25 black walnuts in a seed trade?...lol


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Sue,
I am a newbie, a little over 2 months. I've done 20+ trades now. I have to say the things that were hard for me were the email conversations. Some people are great at keeping you updated on the trade, some are not. These are a few things I think traders should try to do... (example)
1) knowing the trade is good with both of you before anyone sends seeds out.
2) knowing the amount of postage needed if a SASBE.
3) Addresses.
These three usually go pretty well. But the next not so much.
4) Making sure information is in the envelope. I have received trades with no email name, no GW name, even the traders name and address aren't on the envie. I keep records of everything so it is only by the seeds they have sent I am able to figure out who this trade is from. I ALWAYS send all of the above info. in a trade. I never want a trader to feel lost or angry because there is no information in or on the envelope. Trading seeds should be fun, not frustrating.
5) Letting each other know if the trade arrived in good condition and seeds promised are there. I've let everyone I've traded with know I received their seeds. It lets both parties know the trade isn't lost or stolen, forgotten,etc.
6) This is optional, but everyone I have been really happy trading with I put a small positive post on the rate and review forum. I usually email them and tell them I will do this for them.
Okay that's my 2cents worth.

Cindy : )


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Thanks for weighing in Cindy, and Welcome!

All great points.

Expounding on a few things here
1) knowing the trade is good with both of you before anyone sends seeds out.
Very good point! After numerous emails about a seed transaction, I like to do a final recap of what I am sending and what I am to receive. Often there are numerous emails back and forth and numerous seeds offered, and accepted, and/or declined. What maybe started out as a trade for 1 or 2 packs, might have grown to be a trade of several more packs. In the recap email, I try to estimate when I will be mailing, particularly if I am running behind, or know I won't get to it immediately. If I miss my sending date, I try and email and update that I know it was missed and then project once again when I think/hope/plan to mail.

2) knowing the amount of postage needed if a SASBE.
very good point. Since a lot of the ones sending for seeds for postage are brand new newbies, they should maybe be told that to initially send to the bubble envy to the offering member that the postage is 83 cents. The offering member should then state exactly how much they think it will cost to return the envy with the agreed upon seeds (and maybe some extras).

4) Making sure information is in the envelope.
What to include with a seed trade/postage offer

That prompts a question then from me to those who offer a lot of seeds up for a bubble envy and postage (BEAP).
Does the offering member try and include their member name in the envy along with the seeds they are sending, or is it maybe up to the person receiving the seeds to track what real name and addy will be sending them seeds?

5) Letting each other know if the trade arrived in good condition and seeds promised are there. I've let everyone I've traded with know I received their seeds. It lets both parties know the trade isn't lost or stolen, forgotten,etc.
ok...maybe listing the steps of a seeds transaction....also mentioning the courtesy of being sure to follow through with sending their envy if they have responded to a kind BEAP/SASE/SASBE offer.

Sue...heading out to plant some daffs


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Sue,

My GW name, real name and e-mail addy are printed on all my seed packets.

I prefer to have all correspondence continued on one long e-mail. Somewhere in that ongoing e-mail will be the full details of trades, SASBE lists of seeds and GW name.

Too many times I've had e-mail responses to trades and SASBE offers with no GW name and have to spend time responding with the need for a GW name.
I will not do any trade or SASBE without seeing a member page, even if the e-mail originated from GW.

When responding to an offer for trades or SASBE, always include your GW name. It's unfair and so much wasted time to have to keep sending back e-mails asking for GW name.

Don't assume that your GW name appears in an e-mail that is sent through GW. it usually doesn't show and don't assume that a trader will realize that your GW name is part of your e-mail addy name.

Check rate and review with GW name before setting up trades and hope that the search will work.

When doing SASBE offers, even though I have all the info written down on what seeds I am sending, I always ask for a list of seeds that I am sending and for the GW name as well as the real name to be on the paper.

Then when I get the bubblie with the list inside, I check off the seeds on the list as I put the packet in the envie and check it off on my sheet as well.

I almost always send an e-mail the same day the seeds are mailed and ask the member to e-mail me when they receive the seeds. Most of the time they do let me know they have received them.

To be correct on the postage needed for SASBE, I weigh the packets of seeds, the bubble envie, and 8X10 inch paper all at once. My scale is a digital one and I have the answer to the exact amount needed for postage.
On the chance that I messed up and didn't ask for enough postage, then I pay the extra, I made the mistake, it is my responsibility to get it right, so I pay if/when i goof up.

I used to e-mail the exact amount of postage, but 99% of the time I got 2 stamps, 3 stamps etc. and it was a little more than needed.
So now I just ask for 2, 3, 4 $.42 postage stamps. It may cost a little more that way, but most people aren't going to the post office to get the exact amount of postage stamps.

I put a time limit on how long I will hold seeds for an SASBE. I think a lot of people do the same thing. It's 2 weeks from the date of confirmation of the SASBE and I send the SASBE info.

I do increase it 2 3 weeks right after Thanksgiving through the first week of the new year. Mail gets bogged down with Christmas rush, other than that it's 2 weeks and that's it. Then the seeds are back on the trade list and no promises on having the seeds when the mailer comes.


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

i have two beginning traders who ask me what i trade for on things, as in like bulbs, how many for and such, and like (ok its late so try to follow me the best you can!! LOL)
so i think that putting up say...those mexican buckeye seeds, how many of those would be a trade.
and a seeds the size of a dime how many of them, then the size of a nickle and so on, ya, that'd be easier to go by, use something like that. how many to a trade.

also i see some asking me about how long they should wait to leave a bad rating. i say, if it were me, i'd give them longer than a month, because life happens, but i also take things into consideration. like i look at the ratings, at if they have been posting and NOT answering my emails and such.

also i'd put in the hints, for them to keep their bubbly's and how to use the huge one's that some people send and so on, ya know, how to recycle them. cuz i have a huge bottom drawer full of them now. so i don't have to buy any. and won't have to for like ever!! Hee Hee!! ~Medo
that is all i have its probably been already done and i didn't notice it. knowing me, LOL


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

  • Posted by trudi_d 7, Long Island (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 15, 08 at 14:43

Hi Sue,

I bet you don't know they exist.

If you go over to the Winter Sowing forum you'll find the Seed Trading FAQs I wrote several years back. Scroll down about 2/3rds to see them. I also have them listed at my site.

Here is a link that might be useful: GW WS FAQs


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

My contribution:

What is Wintersowing?
What is Lasagna Gardening?

I knew what Square Foot Gardening was, but some new gardeners might not, so that might be a good one to add too.

The tips on how to prepared a BE.. not sure if someone else posted this one or not..

Placing a layer of tape on the return address, addressee and stamp areas before adding the stamps and labels. Extends the life of the BE, makes it easier to remove stamps/labels, especially for BEAP/SASBE.

Oh, and can't emphasize enough to make sure their GW ID is on ALL correspondence from emails to the bubbly. I usually print a copy of the re-cap email to include in my bubbly. This helps us both have all the info. I'm glad Sue gave me to idea of doing a final re-cap. I think I've become rather OCD about doing it :)It helps make things so much easier and I can just print that page and everything's there.

More later, if I think of something.

Kathy~ Heigh Ho, Heigh Ho.. it's off to work I go...


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

I really like Cindy's recap of what is expected for a good trade. Also, it would need to be kept simple, IMHO. More people tend to follow simple plans. If more detail is to be given it should be after the "Brief Basics". Those that really want more detail, like me, would gladly keep reading, but others would have lost interest long before that.

Also, the only thing I could find anywhere about trading was from wintersown.org. I really appreciated finding some info about how to do it, I do remember that! Thanks again, Trudi!

Blessings,
Angela


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

I bet you don't know they exist.

Hmmm...I probably knew of them at one time anyway.
When I actually get to the point of having things ready to input, would it maybe be all right to link to your some of your FAQ? I was thinking of maybe posing the question in the FAQ here, and then have a clickable link to your FAQ question and answer. Please know that I won't assume anything is OK to do without your permission, and GW has also said that the FAQ will need to be OKed by them before I input them.

Also, it would need to be kept simple, IMHO. More people tend to follow simple plans. If more detail is to be given it should be after the "Brief Basics". Those that really want more detail, like me, would gladly keep reading, but others would have lost interest long before that.
Oh Angela, I so agree, and that will likely be the hardest part of putting the FAQ together. I feel like a lot of my posts turn into blah, blah, blah long before the reader finishes them....especially on my Postage education and PO rant threads...lol.
That was why I had in mind the most needed things to know with a fairly basic answer, and then maybe an anchor tag to other tips and hints on a subject.

Sue


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

I have recently had people email me stating that their bubble envelopes have been returned due to the way postage was affixed or that the cancelation mark showed. I think it would be nice to mention that if you reuse the bubblies to make sure NOT to put tape over the stamps or they will be returned and to make sure the cancellation mark is covered....in my case I turn the envelope around to use a different spot so there is no problem.

I also agree that it is nice to have a running communication with your trader. I try to keep people informed of when I sent my envelope and when they are received.

I have learned recently that I am also going to state upfront how many seeds I will be sending because I didn't know that 25 was the "norm". I agree who needs 25 black walnut seeds (unless you are going to eat them of course). I have a small garden so far and only need a few seeds and would rather share with more people if the receiver agrees to say 10 seeds instead of 25...then I can make 2 people happy instead of one!

Kim


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Hints and tips:
I think it would be nice to mention that if you reuse the bubblies to make sure NOT to put tape over the stamps

also...

noting how old a post is before replying, and reading the replies to see if the OP has closed the offer to trade or share for postage.

also...check mark the box so follow-up replies will come into one's email.

So much to convey...yet needing to keep it simple...sigh.


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

  • Posted by trudi_d 7, Long Island (My Page) on
    Tue, Nov 25, 08 at 13:11

Hi Sue,

You're welcome to link to anything I've written--I am very keen on sharing ;-)

However, you CANNOT put hotlinks into FAQs--they are not coded for it. It was this rule that frustrated the heck out of me and truly fostered the birth of WinterSown.Org.

You can make a small graphic that you can upload but t has to be a teensy file size (and I don't remember what size, but you'll get an error message if it's too large).

T


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Hi. I am new to trading maybe been here 1 month. I think I have all the trading stuff down, if not I can always look back at these FAQ's . My question is, 1. I was refered to the new member trade, Well I have looked and looked and can't find it,Help please..And when I made my trade list i messed it up.Quite a few things i need to change. My list came out in paragraph form. tried to delete it and can't. Tried to redo it no luck. Would someone pllleeaasse help me I'm lost.. Thanks... can send me an email through my page,if u like..


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Sherrih,

Welcome to The Seed Exchange! I'm sending an email and will try to help you with your Member Trade List.

My question is, 1. I was refered to the new member trade, Well I have looked and looked and can't find it,Help please.
I'm not sure where you may have been referred to. Did you have some specific questions? If so, either ask them here or feel free to email me.

Sue...resident busy body


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

This is a valuable post and needs to be kept up top, in my opinion, so bump.


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Thanks pdf...hopefully some time this winter when the snow is flying I will rework and update the FAQ here.


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Sue, got a new one to add to the FAQ.

Several people have asked me in the past year if they should post on a member's rate and review thread if they didn't do a trade but rather did a BEAP/SASBE.

I've always told them that it was fine to do so, as it leaves info about the member and how they handle SASBEs, send out seeds, speed etc.

To me it indicates that the member would be a good trader with that kind of info posted.

Maybe you should add this subject to the FAQ.

Fran


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Good idea Fran, or maybe it could be in the FAQ at Rate and Review that hopefully Remy might get to this winter.

I've always told them that it was fine to do so, as it leaves info about the member and how they handle SASBEs, send out seeds, speed etc.
I see it as also a nice way of saying thanks to the offering member too. On the flip side, if a new member responds to an 'offer' and then follows through sending their bubblie, postage, member name, list of wants (if instructed to), I think it is nice to leave them a review too, stating that they responded to an offer and they followed instructions in a timely fashion in mailing out their BEAP (SASBE).

I sure hope a lot of snow flies this winter so I can get them all together.

Sue


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

I sure hope a lot of snow flies this winter so I can get them all together.

Sue, bite your tongue on that one. Some snow to protect the perennials is fine, but "a lot of snow"? Thanks but no thanks.

I think it should go in both FAQ's. Since those that are doing BEAPs many times are newbies with no seeds or very little seeds to trade, they may not look at the FAQ's for the Rate and Review; but they would be looking at the FAQ's on the seed exchange, or at least I hope they are.

I've often thought that threads should be started for those that respond to BEAPs/SASBE offers and do send their bubblies promptly.

And being one that doesn't do a lot of trades any more, but offers almost all my seeds for BEAPS, I would kind of like to post threads on the R&R about the ones that never send their bubblies, especially the ones that respond repeatedly to new offers for my BEAP seeds and continue to not send them.

It really does irk me when that happens, especially when I pull seeds out of the box and set them aside for someone, tell them when I must receive the bubble by and and it still doesn't come.

I continue to update my page, remove the number of trades of seeds left and end up having to waste time putting the seeds back in the box and readding them to the page.

Unfortunately I get a lot of no shows on the offers and I still don't understand why, especially when it is the same member doing it on several different offers that I post.

Fran


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

To all the other fine suggestions, I would suggest to newbies that they have a line at the beginning of their "Have" seed list that states "Last Updated mm/dd/yy" or something like it. I wish everyone who has a GW seed list would do this. I (and others based on email conversations) have wasted a lot of time pursuing trades with people who are no longer active or don't have their lists current. I even get some grumpy replies from people telling me to not send them emails - they aren't interested in doing seed trades anymore. Then why do they still have seed lists?
Also, IMHO the GW site should automatically delete members who have not been active in the last two years. A person could always just join again if they wanted to come back.
This is one of my favorite web sites, and I have recommended it to many others. There just seems to be a few things that need improvement.
Regards,
Tom


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Soilent Green,

I agree with about want lists having an updated date on it. It is very helpful to know when looking at a list.

I have one on my trade page and change the date as I update my trade page for trading, which I usually don't start doing until then end of October every year.

At the same time, I continue to add seeds to my list as I have them available for the upcoming year, but leave the old updated date until I am ready to trade.

That doesn't stop people from emailing me for trades with a date that is 6 months or more old that states when the trade list was updated.

As for wasting time pursing trades with people that are no longer trading or interested in trading, there are some members that do not like to be "cold emailed" from other members to do trades, especially with members that are new or fairly new to the seed exchange, or "cold emails" for trades from members that they have never traded with.

They may still have trade lists posted that are old because they will have the same seeds available every year and they just leave the list posted and when they are ready to trade again, they post on the seed exchange about trading.

I've been a GW member and trading seeds for more than 7 years now, and I, personally, don't "cold email" members for trades unless they are members that I have traded with in the past, trade with frequently every year, or a member that I trade specific seeds with every year and I let them know in advance of posting for trades and BEAP seeds on the forum, what seeds I have specific for them and what I'm looking for.

As for GW deleting members have not be active in the last 2 years, that is not a good idea.

GW has various forums on the site, and just because someone is not actively posting on the seed exchange forum, doesn't mean they don't post and participate in many of the other forums on GW.

Some members just to private trades between certain members only and they leave a trade and want list posted for those specific members to see.

Some people have their trade and want list posted and only do round robin trades, but leave that list posted for those on the round robin exchanges to see and use.

And yes, there are some members that have trade and want lists still posted that have been banned by GW, have passed away and just are not on GW anymore.

Expecting GW to try and figure out what members are and are not active on the seed exchange forum but are posting on other forums on the site, vs don't post at all, is really just a waste of time on their part.
There are far to many members on GW and the time it would take is nothing more than a waste of time on their part.

I suggest that if you have been wasting time trying to trade with people by sending "cold emails" to them, that you just work with the members that post on the seed exchange with trade offers, BEAP/SASBE offers and if you have seeds for trade on your own trade page, then post on the seed exchange yourself with the seeds you have to trade and what you are looking for.

Experience has shown me that the easiest way to trade seeds is to use the seed exchange forum and the posts on the seed exchange form itself and to post myself with offers and what I'm looking for.

There is always room for improvement on any site.

And Welcome to the wacky world of seed trading.

Fran


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

bump...


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

and another bump


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

how do you post your trade lists?


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

Hi Willie_Dean,

Welcome to Garden Web!

Please see addressing newbie and newer member issues. The first 'reply' there after the original post, explains how to set up your trade list, along with hints and tips. In a nutshell, you access updating your trade link, just as you did your member page, and that is via the Member Pages link found in the green banner at the bottom of any page.
I see you have filled in your garden zone and state in your profile, (because it shows on your member page), but am left wondering why it did not automatically show when you posted here.
Did you maybe set up your zone and Member Page blurb after you posted last night?

Sue


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RE: 10 Most Frequently Asked (FAQ) questions

At the risk of "beating a dead horse", I'm finding more and more people posting on forums and when I go to their exchange lists, there's NOTHING there, and these are not newbies either. I agree with another trader, can't remember his/her name, but if they don't have exchange lists, I'm not trading with them. Just had to get that off my chest. GardenWeb is the best site on the internet!


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