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karen_pease

Suburban chickens

Karen Pease
14 years ago

So, I just recently found out that my city is considering allowing chickens to be raised in people's backyards -- up to 5, no butchering, and no roosters. It's been being discussed in the papers and there's a petition going around. I've always wanted to try raising chickens, but having never done so before, I come from a position of near-zero information. I've been reading up some, and I'd like to see what you experienced chicken owners think (and to correct any misconceptions / bad ideas), from coop construction to care and so forth.

I live in Iowa City, just south of the 4b/5a border. If the resolution were to pass, I was thinking about building a coop behind the shed, large enough to house three hens, with an initial purchase of two. The shed is on the north side of my property, separated from the chain-link fence to the neighbors' yard by a small path. The path I would convert to a coop is about three feet wide and eight feet long. The main structural supports would be purchased lumber; the panels salvaged plywood; any non-structural elements, such as a perch, scrap branches; and the roof covered with spare asphalt shingles.

The area would be in full shade year round with the exception of some possible early morning and late evening sunlight. The shed 100% shields the south side, and the north is mostly blocked by a neighbor's dense pine tree, so there won't be much wind.

The ground is mostly dead due to the lack of light and accumulated pine needles from the neighbor's tree. The lower level would be bare ground surrounded with chicken wire on the east and west ends, walled off by the chain link fence and the shed on the north and south, respectively. Below the shed is a small (~2") hole, as the shed is elevated a couple inches. Rabbits sometimes live down there. I'm not sure if I'll need to close that off.

The yard is suburban. There are no foxes, and I've never seen a snake, although I have seen some occasional evidence of mice, moles, things of that nature, and hawks do sometimes fly overhead.

The coup would be elevated, with a ramp leading up on the east side to the coup on the west side (the lower area being for them to scratch around in). The ramp would be a board with small crossbeams every few inches for traction; I understand that this design is to discourage rats and mice from entering. The entrance would be just wide enough for the particular breed of chicken.

Note: are hens smart enough that if I put a doggy door-type flap there to help keep the wind out, that they would be able to figure that out? If not, I suppose I could design some sort of baffle to slow the wind and direct it toward the vents.

The coop would be managed with the deep litter approach. The floor would be made of screen door mesh half an inch under wood lattice, to discourage the hens from tearing up the mesh (I assume they would tear screen door mesh if they could reach it, right?). The contents would be cleaned into garden compost in the spring once it warms up enough by opening up the mesh into the area below the coop so the shavings fall to the ground, and then shoveling that area out to our compost. A fresh layer of shavings and diatomaceous earth would then be put down in the coop. Scratch would encourage the hens to mix the shavings. This would be repeated approximately monthly.

With a thin layer of shavings in the spring and summer, air would flow up through the mesh base, helping dry the manure and keep the hens cool. By the time winter comes around, however, the shavings would be several inches deep and effectively seal off that route. By then, ventillation would occur only through the ceiling vents and whatever comes in through the door.

The walls and ceiling of the coop would be double-layered plywood, with the inside being 2" of fiberglass batting heavily dusted with diatomaceous earth to prevent red mites. This would leave 2.5 feet north to south inside the coop, by about 4 feet east to west -- 10 square feet, not counting nest boxes. Atop the ceiling would be nailed asphalt shingles. The slanted ceiling would overhang long vents along the north and south walls, thus not allowing breezes to blow directly through , but still allowing air to circulate. The vents would be at a height to be perhaps four inches or so above the hens when they're perching. The slanted ceiling would also overhang the rest of the scratching area to keep snow out.

The north side of the coop would have a long perch, while the south side would be open. I'm not sure how to make the hens perch facing one direction or another... ideally, though, they would perch facing south. Underneath their rears on the north end would be a thin slit open to the ground below for their waste through (probably open to a small trench in the ground, just outside their scratching area below the coop). I suppose I could have it lined with plywood all the way to the ground to keep drafts out, or possibly have a poop-catching removable board that I could put in and clean occasionally during the winter months. Either way, I wouldn't want them to freeze.

The southside of the coop would have space to roam, the feeder, and the waterer. The waterer would be a garden hose-connected auto-filling dog water bowl (they're around $13). The feeder would be a homemade gravity feed system. The garden hose will freeze during the winter, so I'd need to switch it out seasonally with a gravity feed auto-waterer that I'd have to manually fill.

Would I need an IR incandescent lamp for extra winter heat, or would their body heat plus a couple inches of insulation on all sides (fiberglass, shavings) be enough?

The roof would be hinged on the east side to provide access to the food, water, and hens. A prop would allow it to be held up once opened. Two 1.25'x1.25'x1.5' nest boxes would be on the west side, overhanging the chicken wire boundary below them, and also insulated. These would have a center cutout and a slope toward the cutout. Below the cutout would be foam padding in a removable drawer.

The chicken wire on the east and west sides that bind off those edges of the scratching area would be openable (by me, not the hens). The west side would only ever be opened to access the hens. Beyond the east side is the garden. Hens would be given unlimited access to the entire (fenced in) garden before spring planting and after fall harvest. They would have no access to any of the garden just after spring planting (I may set up a temporary, fully-enclosed run in the yard for them so they can nibble on the violets, grasses, dandelions, and bugs). In summer/fall, they would have access to only the "hen-safe" side of the garden -- mature squash plants, melons, corn, things of that nature. The "hen-unsafe" side would have things like my brassicas, lettuce, etc that they're known to enjoy, and they would not be allowed in. The boundary would be a couple feet of chicken wire (how high can they get over?). High over the top of my garden are a mesh of strings (and later in the year, vining plants that grow on said strings), so I doubt a hawk would even consider attacking there.

Would they care to have access to the garden area in the winter? Do they avoid snow?

What breeds would be the least garden-destructive but still tolerant to our winter conditions?

The hens would eat a commercial chicken feed during the year, supplemented with non-moldy household vegetable scraps and edible weeds from garden weeding (I wonder if they like smartweeds? I bet those seedheads are healthy... perhaps also tall grasses that have gone to seed?). Plus whatever bugs and plants they can catch/dig up.

What vaccinations/medical care do they need? Would I be able to purchase pre-vaccinated (if needed), near-mature hens, or would I have to raise them from poults myself? And if so, what all would that entail? What would the costs be like?

I assume I should not let my parrot (our household pet) anywhere close to them, and wash our hands after handling the hens before handling him, so as to prevent the transmission of diseases.

I assume that I don't need to "shut the hens in" at night if there aren't predators in the area... correct? Can they be counted on to seek shelter in their coop during hazardous conditions, such as rain or wind, or do they need to be forced to safety?

Am I missing anything important?

Thanks for any info you can offer!

Comments (35)

  • runningtrails
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! Sounds like you have really done your homework!

    If you don't already have a breed in mind, I would suggest you get one with small comb and wattle, such as Chantecler, to help prevent frostbite in severe winter cold. I add a heat lamp when temps drop below about -13c. and this has helped prevent frostbite. It makes them a lot more comfortable too. Vaseline rubbed on comb and wattles helps prevent frostbite also.

    The cold temps will not harm them, other than the frostbite, but a draft will. It's surprising how warm my coop gets in the winter with all cold drafts closed off.

    You might consider heated waterers for the winter. Fresh water at all times is important and you will be replacing it a couple of times a day in the winter, if doing it all manually. I have a zinc waterer sitting on a heating pad that is on a timer. It has worked well for me. I know others who use roof heating cables wrapped around their metal waterers and that works well for them. You can buy heated bases for metal waterers that work well, too.

    Mine don't like the snow and won't walk in it for very long. If it is packed down and the sun is out, they will come outside in the winter, just until their feet get cold. They won't walk on soft fresh snow at all.

    My girls survive and lay very well all winter on commercial feed plus kitchen scraps. We get eggs all year long without supplemental lighting. The eggs get smaller but the number doesn't change much.

    Hope this cold weather, winter info helps.

    Pls let us know when you get your girls and how they make out.

    -Sheryl

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I did not read the whole post (too long and I'm lazy...LOL)
    thoughts that came to mind. They recently passed an ordinance in my city too and there are very specific requirements on coop construction. You need to know the requirements before planning anything. Our ordinance is specific as to where on the property the coop has to be located, what size it generally has to be, and how it is to be constructed. Chicken tractors are not allowed here.

    2- my coop is on the north side of my barn and I regret that decision. There is not enough sunshine and so I have problems when the ground is damp. The coop never dries out until I put a light in there. I am not sure how I am going to handle that in the summer.

    3- when you get chickens you attract all sorts of predators and that is when you will find out what if anything is in your area. Everything loves to kill a chicken.

    4- chickens will demolish your garden, or so I have heard. I have not let mines near my garden yet. oh wait, I don't have a garden. not yet anyway. correction: When I get a garden I am not going to let the chickens near it. LOL

    5- if you are in the city you might as well start looking around for a compost bin too cause you are going to need a way to dispose of the poop.

    6-The more chickens you have, the more poop is produced, the more work you have to do. Depending on the size of your lot you might want to stick to 2-3 hens. You don't want "smell" complaints from the neighbors. 2-3 hens produce a little over a dozen eggs a week.

    7- Make sure you check your covenants for your subdivision as well. Some restrict chickens even if the city allows them. You can always petition the HOA for an amendment though. NOTE: any amendments will have to be filed with the register of deeds.

    I highly recommend you get the book "Keep Chickens! Tending Small Flocks in Cities, Suburbs, and Other Small Spaces (Paperback) by Barbara Kilarski. And of course the Farmlife forum has more than enough 'live" info as well!

    Here is a link that might be useful: I love this website as well...

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is funny. You have to listen to this recording

    Here is a link that might be useful: City of Chicago Chicken Ordinance

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you don't already have a breed in mind, I would suggest you get one with small comb and wattle, such as Chantecler, to help prevent frostbite in severe winter cold

    Thanks for the tip -- they sound perfect. Would a bantam or large be better? I would assume that the bantams don't lay as many or as large of eggs? On the upside, I would think they'd be less damaging on the garden.

    You might consider heated waterers for the winter

    Great idea.

    Pls let us know when you get your girls and how they make out.

    Well, I certainly hope it passes. Lots of people seem really enthusiasic about it, so I hope the organizers don't drop the ball. Most of the city council seems to be in the "undecided" category right now.

    Even if they don't, we're considering moving out to the country at some point; it'd just be a bit longer before we could get ours. :)

    They recently passed an ordinance in my city too and there are very specific requirements on coop construction.

    Hmm. What city? I'd like to look at the ordinance. I heard some talk about them looking at basing ours on Madison's ordinance, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet.

    my coop is on the north side of my barn and I regret that decision. There is not enough sunshine and so I have problems when the ground is damp. The coop never dries out until I put a light in there. I am not sure how I am going to handle that in the summer.

    Hmm, interesting. Are you talking problems with damp ground or a damp coop? Or is the coop on the ground? What I described was an elevated coop with the bottom of the bedding open to the air via screen mesh, to encourage it to dry out. I'd worry about it getting too hot if in summer sun, and of course having a typical suburban plot and being a gardener, my sunlight is a precious commodity.

    3- when you get chickens you attract all sorts of predators and that is when you will find out what if anything is in your area

    Well, that'd be a pretty brazen fox to walk for many blocks down city streets. Never heard of any snakes around here, but I suppose it's possible. How big do snakes have to be to pose a problem?

    4- chickens will demolish your garden, or so I have heard

    That's what a number of places mention, but this person begs to differ. Her main line of argument is they're fine if you take appropriate precautions -- don't let them anywhere near plants they like (and lists both plants that they like and plants that they don't) and don't let them near seedlings of any kind.

    5- if you are in the city you might as well start looking around for a compost bin too cause you are going to need a way to dispose of the poop.

    I have three ;) I'm an organic gardener.

    Depending on the size of your lot you might want to stick to 2-3 hens

    Excellent -- that's exactly what I was looking at.

    7- Make sure you check your covenants for your subdivision as well

    I don't think we have a covenant for ours, but I'll check. Thanks for the tip!

    (and yeah, that recording was funny ;) )

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, hmm, crazy idea. I was just thinking about predators, just in case one were to make it all the way into town... what if the perch was rigged so that when there's sufficient weight on it (i.e., they're all in for the night), the entrance gets blocked? I can think of several ways to go about that, although it depends on how the smart chickens are. I.e., will they only go through an entrance if it looks like it's wide open, or are they smart enough to push a flap out of their way, or better, a hinged wooden door?

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are lots of creatures besides snakes and foxes that are a threat. Predators can include weasels, rats, hawks, owls, dogs and cats.

    In my opinion having the coop on the south side where it can get direct sunlight with adequate ventilation would be better than the north side that gets no sunshine. In the winter the sunshine will be a source of warmth. But that's just my opinion based on having a coop on the North side.

    Here is a link that might be useful: some chicken coop considerations

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks!

  • islandmanmitch
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would bet domestic dogs kill more chickens than all other predators combined.

  • nhsuzanne
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't forget raccoons! They are real city dwellers.

    You have gotten excellent advice and suggestions and I can't think of much more to add. I agree with msjay, I don't think it would be right to make your hens live in a place with no (or not much sun). They really love the sun and thrive in it. They also need some shade during the really hot days of summer. If you are only going to have 2-3 hens they wouldn't need an enormous amount of space. I also think it would be a shame to not be able to see them - they really are fun to watch and interact with.

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, they'd have access to the sun for 4/5ths of the year, and be visible from the house -- the idea was to give them free reign of the "hen-safe" portion of the garden (corn, potatoes, squash, melons, etc), except for when the plants on that side are young and vulnerable to scratching. But the coop would be in the shade if we were to build it in the planned location. For that other 1/5th of the year, we'd probably set up a temporary pen in the yard on nice days for them to walk around in.

    I'll think about other options... just not sure if there are any.

    Yeah, I thought about raccoons the other day. Again, never seen any or even heard of any around here, but I suppose they're something you never know if they're there until you get one.

  • cranberry15
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have predators. You've just never seen them.
    Deep litter does an excellent job of controlling smells. Really. I use chopped fall leaves, about 10 - 12" deep and smell is never a problem. (never had more than 3 chickens at a time).

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Huh, never even thought about using chopped leaves -- what a great idea!

    Is it reasonable operate on the assumption that there are land-based predators (such as raccoons) that could get into the yard at night (despite this being a city location, and having never seen them, roadkill, or heard of them in the area), and air-based predators at any point in time (I know they exist; I've seen hawks plenty of times)? Or do you have to be prepared for land-based predators during the daytime as well? The garden area should be hawk-safe, thanks to what's basically a rope pergola over the whole thing, and of course their coop and scratching area would be entirely screened in. I'm mulling over ideas on how to keep predators out from entering through the door that gives them access to the garden, though.

    Does anyone know whether hens are smart enough to push a swinging door open? Because it's easy to picture a method that could automatically latch a door shut at night when there's enough weight on the perch. I suppose it could be also set up to pull the door closed when the weight occurs and re-open it when the weight is off, but that'd be a bit more complicated.

    Another option I was thinking about would be to have the ramp to the coop entrance be able to barely support the weight of two hens. If more weight is applied (say, a raccoon), or there's effort applied to fit inside an outer opening, thus putting more pressure on the ramp, it'd collapse, and in the process drop and latch the door from the inside (requiring I have to open it back up by unlatching and lifting the roof)

    A third option I was considering would be to likewise trigger a door shut/latch event, but based on pressure, not weight. I.e., a freestanding "arch" outside the door that has to be passed through to get into the house. If anything tries to squeeze its way through (which the hens wouldn't have to do, by virtue of their smaller size), the movement of the arch triggers the drop/latch mechanism.

    Any drop of the door could pull the pin on one of those high-pitched pin-activated noisemakers, thus alerting me that something's up (and potentially scaring the animal off).

    Or, I could use timers and actuators. Or, I could always just not be lazy and manually let them out and in every day ;)

    Back to an earlier question... what's the difference in productivity between bantams and larger hens? Do bantams lay less often, or lay smaller eggs?

    ...

    .... aha! I actually *do* remember seeing a potential predator in my yard at night at one point, many years ago: an opossum! Only seen one once, but that shows that they're a threat, even in the city!

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was going to send you a link to the ordinance but you do not have email enabled in your profile so here is the ordinance in a nutshell. It is 10 pages long.

    Basically the ordinance states that in the city you have to get a limited agricultural permit to own chickens

    You can have up to 10 hens, no roosters

    You can keep them if you live in a single family house or townhouse ONLY; that excludes trailers, apartments, duplexes, nursing homes etc.

    You have to notify all your neighbors of your intent to keep chickens via registered mail. You have to prove mailing them letters before applying for the permit and unless they object it is generally approved. If they do not reply that is considered consent. If they object then the city will take that under consideration when they make their decision.

    Your permit can be revoked if it is determined that you keeping chickens is a nuisance or detriment to public health or safety

    You are not allowed to sell or distribute your chicken eggs, manure or compost made from your chicken manure.

    You must have a coop AND pen

    You must compost the manure in a closed container

    Your chickens must be secured in the coop during non daylight hours.

    During daylight hours chickens may be located in the chicken pen and may be located outside of the pen in a securely fenced yard or chicken tractor/portable pen if supervised by an adult person at all times.

    The coop shall be enclosed with solid material on all sides and have a solid roof and door(s). The coop shall be at least 18 inches high, and provide at least 3 square feet of floor area per chicken. The coop shall provide 1 square foot of window per 15 square feet of floor area, and vents as necessary to ensure adequate ventilation. The materials for each element, e.g., walls, roof, windows and doors, shall be uniform and in harmony with the surrounding area.

    Doors shall be constructed so that they can shut and lock. Windows shall be constructed so they can shut. Windows and vents shall be covered with wire that is 14 1/2-gauge or less with maximum spacing of 1 inch by 1 inch. The coop shall be impermeable to rodents, wild birds, and predators, including dogs and cats.

    The chicken pen shall be constructed of wood or metal posts and wire fencing material that is 14 1/2-gauge or less with maximum spacing, overall or along the lower portion for graduated poultry fencing, of 1 inch by 6 inches. The pen shall provide at least 10 square feet of area per chicken. The fence shall rise at least 4 feet above the ground & be buried at least 1 foot in the ground. The pen shall be covered with wire, aviary netting, or solid roofing.

    The chicken coop, chicken pen, and surrounding area shall be kept clean, dry, odor-free, and in a neat and sanitary condition at all times. All manure, uneaten feed, and other trash shall be removed in a timely manner and disposed of in a sanitary manner.

    The chicken coop shall provide adequate security, ventilation, and shelter from moisture and extremes of temperature. The chicken pen shall provide adequate security and sun and shade. Chickens shall have access to feed and clean water at all times, and such feed & water shall be inaccessible to rodents, wild birds, and predators. Chickens shall be provided adequate bedding in the chicken coop and perches are encouraged.

    chicken coops shall be located at least 15 feet from any property line or public right of way, and chicken pens shall be located at least 5 feet from any property line or right of way.

  • usmc_recon
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You gotta be kidding? Just one more reason why I won't live in the city.

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I guess it is a trade off. I do not live in the city I am just passing the info. I thought it was a bit much myself. The ordinance is 10 pages so long so there is more!

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I can't put up a wind turbine, either. Well, I *could*, but it couldn't be more than a couple feet taller than my house, so it'd be pretty worthless.

    Not surprised they make you jump through hoops for hens, and meanwhile people can keep all the aggressive, loud, up-all-night dogs they want with almost no regulation. :P

  • mxbarbie
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All very good advice, just one more thing to consider, if you want 3 hens, get them all at once. Introducing a newcomer to an established flock is a pain in the butt.
    And in my experience, chickens are not smart enough to go through any kind of door they had to open themselves, including clear poly.

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks!

  • posy_pet
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with whoever suggested the south side.I had a coop on the north side of a building years ago and it did stay damp.Chickens do need shade but they love to dirtbathe in the sun.Shredded leaves make wonderful litter.The only drawback I have found is that they stain the eggs when it is really wet.I close a small door every night.My feeling is that mice or rats could get in.Hubby built a little "enclosed porch" in front of said door that opens on the east side and blocks the wind in the winter.My house has a solid floor also to deter other critters.Years ago we had a weasel kill most of 50 chicks and maim the rest.Good luck.Keep studying.Backyard Poultry magazine is very good and also has an online library.Posy Pet

  • runningtrails
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can also "Search" only this forum for specific things and get only the posts about that subject, going back a long way. I have found that to be a big help.

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am just curious. Has anyone actually had an animal actually dig to get inside their chicken coop? (fox, dog, whatever)

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So, our group (Friends for Urban Chickens) put me in charge of drafting up a sample ordinance to pass along to the animal welfare officer (and if she takes too long to act, straight to city council). Would you all mind taking a look at it and letting me know what you think? I'm also going to try to come up with a sample informational document, as per (3b); if you have any suggestions on good starting points, let me know! :)

    ----------------

    Allowance for limited numbers of egg-laying fowl in residential areas

    (1) Definitions:
    a. For the purposes of this section, "egg-laying fowl" is defined as chickens and ducks. "Birds" and "fowl" will be used as synonyms.
    (2) Residents may keep egg-laying fowl on their private property, providing they meet the following requirements.
    a. Keep no more than five total egg-laying fowl.
    b. All kept fowl must be positively identified as female when they are acquired.
    c. Slaughter of kept fowl is prohibited.
    d. Have been issued a permit under subsection (3) of this section
    e. The principal use of the persons property is single-family dwelling or two-family dwelling.
    f. Only the owner of a property may apply for a permit under subjection (3) of this section.
    g. Fowl must be kept in accordance with subsection (4) of this section.
    (3) Any person wishing to keep egg-laying fowl in the city shall obtain a permit from the city prior to acquiring them.
    a. No permit shall be issued to a person, by the city, and no egg-laying fowl shall be allowed to be kept unless the owners of all residentially zoned adjacent properties consent to the permit.
    b. Applicants for a permit are required to read certify that they have read a document describing proper care of egg-laying fowl, which will be provided to them as part of the application process.
    c. All owners of the adjacent properties must consent before the permit can be granted. Each owner shall be notified via mail of the permit application by the office of the City Clerk and provided information on how to consent to or deny the permit application and to optionally waive the distance requirement (4a). Failure to respond within three calendar weeks shall be seen as consent to the permit without waiver of the distance requirement (4a).
    d. Application shall be made to the City Clerk and the fee for the permit and the fee for the permit shall be as determined by the office of the City Clerk to cover costs in processing the application.
    e. Individuals possessing a permit to keep egg-laying fowl must additionally pay an annual fee, with the first year paid at the time of permit application. This fee will be set at $5. Money from this fee will go to animal control to provide care and homes for any abandoned or neglected fowl in the city.
    f. A permit can be revoked at any point by the city should claims of nuisance arising from or neglect of the egg-laying fowl be substantiated by animal control or police officers in their official duty, acting upon a complaint.
    g. Notwithstanding the issuance of a permit by the City, private restrictions on the use of property shall remain enforceable and take precedence over a permit. Private restrictions include but are not limited to deed restrictions, condominium master deed restrictions, neighborhood association by-laws, and convenant deeds. A permit issued to someone whose property is subject to private restrictions that prohibit the keeping of egg-laying fowl is void. The interpretation and enforcement of the private restriction is the sole responsibility of the private parties involved.
    h. The permit shall not be transferable to another location or individual.
    i. If the permit is revoked for any reason, the former holder has three weeks to find a new home for egg-laying fowl on their property or be prosecuted for a civil infraction violation.
    (4) The following minimum standards for housing and care for egg-laying fowl must be met at all times:
    a. The coop must be located at least 15 feet from a neighboring property and at least 25 feet from a neighboring dwelling unless the owner of that property waives the distance requirement under subsection (3b).
    b. A minimum of three square feet per bird must be provided in coop space.
    c. The coop must provide shelter from the elements, including sufficient winter warmth to prevent frostbite and sufficient ventilation to prevent disease, odor buildup, and heat exhaustion.
    d. The coop must have an attached run. The run must provide a minimum of ten square feet per bird.
    e. Both the coop and run must be impervious to predators, including but not limited to dogs, cats, birds of prey, rodents, and opossums.
    f. The coop and run must be maintained free of mites and other pests.
    g. Both the coop and run must be maintained clean, dry, and unobstructed. Litter must be managed in a manner sufficient to prevent disease and the detection of disagreeable odor from more than 15 feet away.
    h. Food must not be rotten, spoiled, moldy, infested, or otherwise unfit to eat.
    i. The materials for the coop and run must be uniform and in harmony with the surrounding area.
    j. Sufficient food and water must be made available to the birds at all times. The water must be kept ice-free in winter.
    k. The coop must be of sound construction, following the requirements for accessory structures.
    j. The birds must be within their pen or coop at all times when unsupervised. Allowing birds to roam freely without supervision is subject to revocation of permit.
    m. The birds must be provided proper veterinary care as needed.

  • usmc_recon
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Personally I don't care for the part about getting permission from your neighbors. How many times have you read about unreasonable neighbors on just this forum? If you have one jerk neighbor you can't have your chickens?

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    here they ask and if a neighbor says no basically the city can take that under consideration and still allow them. We all know though that if that happens you will have hell from those neighbors just because they got veto'd.

  • velvet_sparrow
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great advice here. :)

    And yeah, you WILL have predators that will come around, especially at night. Chickens and their feed will at least attract mice, rats, possum, hawks, owls and maybe raccoons, plus every cat in the neighborhood. I also live in a suburban area (Los Angeles) and we get all of the above except for raccoons. We also get wild birds such as sparrows, starlings, crows, doves, pigeons and mockingbirds--all of which can and do carry disease. It's simply the food chain in action--feed>mice>cats, etc. So it isn't just the 'predator' angle you need to watch out for.

    I've got a chicken info site aimed at keeping pet chickens in suburbia here:

    http://jackshenhouse.com/

    When you get your chickens, if you decide to get just a few baby chicks and cannot find them in your area, My Pet Chicken sells and ships as few a 3 (most hatcheries only sell in quantities of 25, so unless you want that many you'll need to split an order with other people). This is naturally more expensive as they have to place a little heating unit in with them, but if you can't get just a couple of chicks any other way it may be for you:

    http://www.mypetchicken.com/default.aspx

    They also have a neat widget that helps you decide what kind of chicken is right for you.

    You need to build an absolutely secure coop for your birds, and make sure they are housed in it every night (read some of the horror stories on this site to see how bad a massacre can be). This includes burying the wire underground for several inches, curved outward, to deter digging predators. It also includes making sure that small rodents, like rats and mice, cannot squeeze into your coop and get at your birds or their feed. Chickens sleep very soundly at night and can't see worth a darn in the dark, and so can be sitting ducks.

    I'd also eliminate the 'permission from neighbors' clause, it just opens up a whole can of worms. Most people can usually think of a time or two when they have had nasty neighbors! *L* Also, I'd say that people renting can apply for the permit, as long as they have their landlord's permission.

    Although the whole things seems a bit complicated...my city's code simply states that a certain number of hens is OK, no roosters (due to the noise at 4:30AM) and that the coop must be a certain number of feet away from any house. No permit or licensing required. I honestly wouldn't get too complicated with the thing, simple is good. :)

    My advice would be to read all you can about chickens and you'll be way ahead of the curve. :) Enjoy your birds!

    Velvet ~:>

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the feedback, everyone. The reason for the complexity and all the restrictions is that we have a fairly adversarial city council, as far as we can tell so far. So, we wanted to do everything we could to assauge them and the main concerns that have been raised. Our city has a large itinerant population, and they're concerned about abandoned birds -- hence the owner requirement**. And I figured by including the 100% of neighbors clause, which some cities have as a requirement, we could make it be easier to be seen as a "win-win" situation. It'd disadvantage some people, but my view is that it'd at least be a start, and I tried to craft that requirement in a way that'd make it as likely as possible to happen (i.e., the request comes in the mail, and if they don't respond, it's taken as consent).

    I don't know. I'd like to not have to have people deal with that, but I worry that we wouldn't get it passed. Thoughts? Hmm, here's an idea. Perhaps if 100% of the neighbors consent, the permit is automatically granted; if not, the applicant has to go through a review process, they have to have the coop and pen concealed from view from that neighbor, they can't free range the hens even under supervision, etc. Think that might be better? I think we might be able to sell that idea.

    ** -- Note that it says that only a property owner can get a permit... but doesn't specify that the property owner has to physically own the hens or be the one to care for them. So a tenant could always ask their landlord to apply... and really, wouldn't the landlord need to be informed anyway?

  • usmc_recon
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was taught when you go into "negotiations" you don't put everything on the table up front. Save something to "negotiate" with as you go. It sounds like you have your mind made up. Go for it as written then.

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mmm? I'm confused.

  • nelda1234
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Karenrei, What "I think" that everybody is trying to say is, keep it simple. The petition is way to complicated. Stick to the most basic points - the things that you think there would be concerns for - let them tell you at the meeting after they read your petition what their further concerns are and then build on that - don't make it so complicated that the people wanting chickens have no way of meeting all the criteria that has been put forth and therefore not worth their time. As usmc recon said, Never lay all your cards on the table up front - Save something to "negotiate" with as you go. I am in agreement that I would not put in the petition that people would have to have 100% neighbor permission - if and I say if you have to use that, use it as a last resort! I hope this helps some - this is just my opinion and this is only what I think people are trying to say----remember just keep it simple - You can't hide a chicken coop - kinda like you can't hide a swingset/playhouse or kids. I have seen some really cool chicken coops - that don't look like a coop! :)

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmm... I think I must not have been very clear. We're not going to get to "negotiate" with City Council. We're drafting an ordinance, which is first going to go to our (supportive) animal control officer. She may or may not have time to bring it to council. If she doesn't, we have one known supporter on council (there are also three that seem opposed, and three that haven't said anything; nobody has taken a very strong stance, though), and will hand it to him to introduce. If he does introduce it, the council will vote it up or down. If they vote it down, we probably won't have another chance for years.

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing should be noted that all across America people are requesting to be able to keep chickens and where they are not allowed they are sneaking them in . When things are too complicated people feel it is easier to do their own thing. I am in agreement with the policy: keep your chickens, limit them to 4-5, no roosters and the enclosure should be atleast 4' from the neighbors property. what more do you need? It might not hurt to have educational workshops at your County Ag Extension office. how to build a coop, protect the chickens from predators, basic care, how to compost the poop etc. I would bet a lot of people would show up if they were held on Saturday mornings.

  • Karen Pease
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    . what more do you need?

    Well, according to some members of the city council and some people who have complained in the press, we also need to prevent our "itinerant population" (students) from raising them and to address the supposed problem that they're going to be abandoned en masse without care, and that they're going to bug neighbors and lower property values.

    Just because their complaints are unrealistic doesn't mean we don't have to deal with them :( I'm just concerned about what we've seen from the council so far. Of the 7-member council:

    -------------
    Correia I don't know. My sister lived in a small town in Illinois and her neighbors across the
    street had chickens and they were kind of friendly, but I don't really see it in Iowa City.
    I'm sorry

    O'Donnell No.

    Champion I don't know. (several talking)

    ...

    Lombardo Where do you stop? What regulations, I mean, in terms of just legislating how to
    keep them(several talking)

    Wright The fact that it's relatively common, I think there are plenty of models that could be used
    out there. Um

    -------------

    Then, from one of our local papers...

    Iowa City Mayor Regenia Bailey who said her grandmother owned chickens said she was not interested in supporting such a move because supporting local business leads to a more dynamic economy, but she is interested in hearing what others have to say regarding the matter.

    We have a weak mayor system, so Mayor Bailey is basically just another vote on the city council. The other two members of the council haven't really said anything that we've been able to track down that indicates his views. We have Wright seeemingly in favor; Correia, Bailey, and O'Donnell seemingly opposed; and Wilburn, Champion, and Hayek unknown (Lombardo was the city manager). That's not a good starting point, and we don't get to "negotiate" with them (at best, we'll get to speak our peace in front of them the session before the vote). Then they'll either vote it up or down.

    So, in our position, what would you do?

    It might not hurt to have educational workshops at your County Ag Extension office

    Hey, that's a good idea. We should give the ag extension a call and see if they'd be interested in that. I think that'd go over better than just requiring that applicants read a pamphlet.

  • usmc_recon
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Karen I was mistaken. I now realize you live in a big city where individuals may or may not be granted an audience with their ruling class. To actually have the right to negotiate? I am sorry for not understanding the situation you are up against. I live in a small town where everyone that shows up at the counsel meeting has the right to speak. If there are 200 people the meeting goes on until everyone has their chance to speak. When there are opposing sides in a heated issue both sides are expected to negotiate for a solution. The counsel referees the meeting. Sometimes they will table the subject item. City staff will set up meetings with the two sides to try to work out an acceptable agreement. Most times it is resolved in these meetings. It comes back before the counsel at the next meeting and is passed. On occasion no agreement can be made and the counsel takes action. Under the constraints you are working I think it you have done the best you can do. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out. One last thought REVOLT?

  • msjay2u
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    no matter what you do there is always a bad apple in the bunch

    no matter how many rules you make there are that many (and more) who will break those same rules.

    "we also need to prevent our "itinerant population" (students) from raising them and to address the supposed problem that they're going to be abandoned en masse without care, and that they're going to bug neighbors and lower property values"

    Are you saying that you think all students abandon animals, bug neighbors and lower property values? If that is the case it would happen with or without chickens

    you might as well not be on the board. They need someone who is excited about the idea and will make everyone else excited and put some fire under them.

  • sphinxface
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I haven't read all the posts here, but I would like to point out that it's possible not all of your chickens will want to sleep on the perch, or whatever you've tried to rig for that.

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