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jennybog_gw

learning to be a farrier

jennybog
15 years ago

Does anyone know where and how to become a farrier. Yesterday mine came out and he raised his prices $20.00 I thought it is time to learn. We have two mini donkey's and we are getting goats so I thougt it would be a great thing to know even if we keep having him come for future price increases. Thanks

Comments (11)

  • Dibbit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Since you aren't dealing with putting shoes on, but just with trimming feet, you can do it pretty much by yourself. Get a book on feet - ignore the newly fashionable "mustang trim" ones, as they don't apply and will only confuse you. Look over the sections on trimming, and on what healthy feet look at, with an awareness of the differences in hoof shape from horses to donkeys. If you can get a donkey book, or have one, study the section on hoof care, and learn any diagrams in there.

    The equipment you need includes a hoof rasp - one of your blacksmith's worn-out ones still has plenty of use for what you want, so ask, and he might give you one - a hoof knife, and possibly a pair of hoof nippers, which can probably all be purchased at a decent feed store. If not, the on-line catalogues should have them, but you will pay shipping. The nippers, if you rasp the feet every few weeks, are probably not needed, and may be too much for you to use now. And you will need the hoof knife only to trim off excess frog or loose sole, which can be left to wear off naturally, so isn't a necessity either.

    Look carefully at the feet, the angles and shape of them, sides and bottoms, now, while they are freshly trimmed. This is what you want to keep. Every few weeks (even every week), you can use the rasp to take off new growth, keeping the foot level side to side and front to back. You don't HAVE to do all 8 feet in one day, and it may well be easier on your back and legs to break it up. Just, do both front feet or both back feet at the same time, so the feet are of similar lengths. Trimming is easier done when the feet aren't too hard, from lack of moisture, and when they aren't excessively soft, from standing in wet, so try to pick your timing to make it easy for you.

    I would strongly suggest that you pay a little extra the next time the farrier comes, and have him supervise/teach you - ask if he is willing, but most farriers are reluctant to do smaller animals - they already have sore backs much of the time, so I imagine he would be happy to teach you. I would have him come back in a couple of months and check that you are doing it right, since bad trimming can cripple an animal. If both of you are happy, then I would drop the farrier visits to once or twice a year, just for insurance that all is well. It's easy to get an angle slightly wrong, and then perpetuate or increase the wrongness.

    Oh yeah, when new, hoof rasps are incredibly sharp, so be very careful not to rasp yourself. Even a used one can be sharp, so use with caution.

  • nhsuzanne
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I highly suggest you spend some time learning from your farrier before you buy all those tools and possibly damage your animals feet. It is not that it's hard but the equine feet is a marvel all its own.

    I learned to trim feet using Pete Ramey's book. It's pretty straight forward and easy to understand. I keep my horses barefoot as well as my two donkeys and I trail ride over very rough terrain here in NE.

    A proper trim is essential and not to be taken lightly.

    I have attached a link to Pete Ramey's site.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Pete Ramey

  • Dibbit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It looks to me as though Pete Ramey's work is good, sensible and accessible for the new-comer. Do learn something about the anatomy of the foot and leg, as proper hoof balance and shape can make a huge difference in how an animal goes, and how sound they stay.

    I don't mean to imply that A) anyone can be good at trimming hooves from only a few minutes spent reading, B) that one supervised lesson is enough to make you experienced, nor C) that there is only ONE way to arrive at the same end-point; well trimmed and balanced hooves, although, since anatomy IS anatomy, and doesn't change, there are only so many ways to get there well! BUT, you can, over time, and with care - not to paralyze you into thinking you can't do it, but just to caution you to go slowly (you can always do more on another day) - do your own hoof trimming.

    The "new" interest in bare-foot riding has resulted in a number of books on the "correct" trim - some of which contradict each other! You have to be your own skeptical reader, and keep double-checking yourself against the diagrams and explanations you read - filtering them carefully for practicality - and the results you get on the ground with your experience. Knowing the basic anatomy does help.

    Have fun.

  • pamghatten
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There is a great book out there about Mini-donks that has instructions for hoof trimmimg. I think the author of the book is Bonnie Gross.

    My farrier was out Weds. nite and my 5 year old mini-donk gelding decided he needed to act like he was a baby again, and was acting out all over the place. My farrier just laughed and said it was a good thing he was so small.

  • MLcom
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    here is a very good site to start with read it and re read it.


    enjoy

    ML

    Here is a link that might be useful: Barefoothorse

  • jennybog
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey everyone thankyou all for the wonderful advice.My farrier called and charge me the wrong price. Charge me for a large horse not a mini. So i guess i will be keeping him around.But thankyou you all for everything Jenny.Out of my gourd Farms Maine

  • mollymaples
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I learned how to trim my own horses because I couldn't get a farrier to keep an appointment. And Jenny, you may still want to consider learning to trim a foot, understand the anatomy of the foot and leg and know which angle is correct for your horses to make sure they are somewhat balanced when the farrier is done and so you can do your own if need has it. Balance and angle are important. If you don't believe it, try walking with one high healed shoe and one foot barefoot. Same with the horse, its hard on their bones and muscles and difficult to maintain balance. The Tucson School of Horseshoeing has a traveling forge and gives three day, hands on instruction. It is worth the cost. I also read everything I could on proper trimming, libraries carry many books and then you can find much information on line. You don't have to pay a lot to get a good education on trimming and shoeing. My suggestion, don't skimp on your tools. Buy a good tool to measure angles of each hoof, about 45.00, a good set of nippers, 100-200.00, a nice Heller legend rasp, 25 and a good knife that has the correct curve in the handle and blade, also about 25.00. When you are not so strong, these tools even the playing field. Good luck. I have been trimming my own for about five years and its not the money saved, its the convenience and knowing they are balanced, left to right, front and back.

  • nhsuzanne
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good points dibbit! All barefoot trims are NOT alike! Some are very invasive and ultimately do much damage. It is a process that should be approached slowly and lots of reading should be done first.

  • goodhors
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Learn the difference between donkey/mule hooves and horses/ponies. Angles on the mules and donkey hooves are not going to be horse angles, the shoulder is different.

    Keep your rasps sharp. For small, barefoot animal, this will be the tool you use most. Too many trimmers keep using the rasp way past when it is sharp, "saving money" stretching out the use times. Most don't even notice when rasp goes from sharp to dull! A sharp rasp will cut your knuckles fast, along with easy hoof removal. You don't have to lean on a sharp rasp to remove hoof. Leaning on the rasp is one of the quickest ways to work yourself too hard, get uneven hooves.

    Keeping the clefts of hoof open alongside the frog, just a TINY amount of sole removal, so it is relieved below the hoof wall, is all you need doing with the hoof knife. Equines need all the frog they grow, especially donkey and mule hooves. The frogs may appear to shed, get tattered during the year. Just trim off any flaps that may catch and hold stones, nothing extra. Keep the knife sharp each use, much easier to use cleanly, removing those little amounts on little hooves. Again, sharp will cut you faster, but makes cutting work easier, faster on hard soles and frogs of a good hoof.

    Use common sense. Hoof sole should still be rather firm when done trimming. No pink tones, no blood, no give to thumb pressure on the sole. If too much is removed, the ground surface hurts the bones inside hooves. Tiny hooves are not deep, so remove tiny amounts of sole and protect those inside bones.

    Make sure both sides of hoof are even, top to bottom. It is fine to measure with a ruler. Doing them at home, you may not develop a good eye, like a person doing feet daily. Front of hoof angle should match the shoulder bone angle. Back hooves usually have more angle than front hooves, with donkey and mule having a more upright angle than horses. Don't take off all the heels, frog of hoof has to have something to lay between, especially the extra-large frogs of donkey and mule hooves. That is why mule shoes are U shaped instead of more round or pointed like horse shoes fitted to the hoof.

    Learn all you can, perhaps your Farrier would let you ride along and observe him working for a day. Give you tips as he goes along. Farriery is not rocket science, though it can be exacting in specific applications and with certain animals. Trimming is removing the hoof horse does not wear off in daily use. Sometimes that means removing very little of anything, smoothing off the rough edges and equine is good-to-go for another month or 6 weeks.

    The books and information available all SOUNDS wonderful, has a lot of followers for the various "Name-brand" styles. The difficulty comes when the writers directly contradict each other, then give numbers of all the horses their special method has returned from being cripples.

    The part that drives me crazy is folks who are out there triming and rasping the hoof every week or two. Can't leave it alone or do such a poor job that hoof needs fixing constantly. Then they brag about how "attentive" they are on hoof care. Good GRIEF!, Equines shouldn't need that much work to keep trimmed and sound, if done correctly the first time. I do believe those folks just can't leave things alone, or like to pay the trimmer to visit every couple weeks because they have fun talking to them!! Has to be a hideous expense getting trims every couple weeks!!

    I kept my ponies barefoot, ridden for miles daily, all thru my childhood. I had to trim them myself, no farriers around. My old 4-H leader gave me a demonstration, showed me leveling, frog trimming, sole relief, cleaning out the heel area. He then watched me trim the other hooves, gave me pointers or corrections. I was on my own after, with my good 4-H Manual to refer to for trimming and shoeing information. Nice illustrations. He did inspect the animals at our workout riding sessions, point out things that needed attention or changes. He thought I did a fine job, and ponies were NEVER lame for all the thousands of miles we rode them every year. This trimming was pretty common at that time, most of us did our own horses unless shod. Only needed doing about every 6 weeks in summer, 8 weeks in winter when they grow slower. If you got a big chip, you could smooth it off in between. We didn't expect the perfect looking hoof at all times. That only happened on shod feet, which were protected from wear. Bare feet were usually smooth, but might have some little nicks or rough edges from the daily riding.

    I trimmed a lot of hooves over the years, no lame horses. You don't trim them too short, remove the parts they need for protection of the inside bones. Keep the hoof bottom level, don't correct how he lands. Corrective trimming just makes the bones of leg wear unevenly, and is not going to change how the hoof works. You can cripple a horse with a lifetime of "corrective trimming" for the appearance of a straight hoof. Rest of the leg column is going sideways, leg looks like mix-master in motion, but that hoof toe is straight as he stands! Trim is then just a cosmetic change, not any help to the horse or his way of going.

    I would advise getting all the knowledge, skills you can now, in case you should have to end up trimming yourself. All the Farrier sites talk about pricing, expenses of doing business. Nothing is getting cheaper, so prices sure are not going down. And not to be nasty, but your Farrier is not very smart to have Mini and Full Size horse prices. They both take time to do. His prices should be the same for his time trimming any equine. The Farriers who do pricing like that, don't seem to stay in business for long times. Same with the guy who gives a rate if you have more than X horses to work on. Prices should be done per horse and work done on it. Bad business for him, though good for you.

    Locally, the price of trims is approaching $40 whatever the size of lighter horses or ponies, with Drafts more. If you can even find a draft farrier!! Amish do them here, but you have to haul to them. You get a variety of skills by the Amish farrier from very poor to nice and a huge scale in pricing. Many folks get horses done by the price of Farrier. He is cheap so they use him, even if horse is lame a few days after trim or new shoes. To me that is totally unacceptable, but they just RACE back to him and his prices.

    One of my favorite Farrier remarks is "You are not paying me by how much I remove from the hoof, but what I leave on." The very skilled Farrier moves quickly, does what is needed, a lot or a little according to the horse. People who exclaim about a trim "It only took you 10 minutes!! Now you want $35 dollars?" have no clue on the skills of Farriery. I have seen the Farrier offer to let them use his tools for trimming their own horse, yet they don't take him up on it. Still complain about the pricing and time it takes. A long drawn-out trim or shoe job does NOT make them a great Farrier! Perhaps the folks feel better watching him sweat longer to get that same money. The best Farriers have put in years of learning, practicing, to have skills that make shoeing and trimming "look so easy, get done so quickly". As with any craftsmen, self-employed person, Time Is Money, so you have to move fast to earn a living.

  • Dibbit
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Goodhors, I would agree with you on almost everything you wrote, except for your comments on the frequency of trimming. You say that your ponies "ridden for miles daily" only needed trimming every 6 weeks. Well, yes, it's true that they wouldn't have needed more frequent trimming - the miles of riding kept their feet worn to an acceptable level. If an animal is worked regularly, esp. on hard ground, then that animal will need trimming much less frequently than one that mostly stands around in a field will need trimming. Some horses/donkeys grow their feet out quickly, and some out slowly, same as different people grow fingernails at different rates. If you have an animal with fast-growing hooves, standing around or only moving in soft pasture, then that animal will need trimming more frequently than one with slower-growing hooves or one that does a lot of work. Trim according to the animal in front of you, not by a set schedule. Using a farrier, it is frequently easier to set a schedule, especially if s/he is a busy one - real life meets the ideal world.

  • goodhors
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dibbit, I was trying to show the person with donkeys, that learning to trim for herself, was possible. Using that common sense, even a kid did a usable job with pointers from more experienced people. Animals stayed sound with lots of use, though a beginner was trimming them.

    The trims were timed every six weeks, to make sure we really LOOKED at horse hoof closely. Six week trims were covered in our 4-H book as the time needed, same 6 weeks named in all the horse care books under hoof care. Kids needed to shift from using the animal, to evaluating his parts. Hoof care was part of overall care, Horsemanship skills. If shod, shoes and nails would be wearing out after six weeks of regular use. The hoof growth under shoes would need removing. Someone could get hurt if shoes were not checked specifically. Training the kids to really LOOK. In the trims, we rounded up the hoof edges for smoothness, made sure hoof was wearing level, sole had some relief, not level with the hoof wall. Daily hoof cleaning should keep the horse owner noticing if problems are developing. Take measures to address the issue, like a split or big chip in a hoof wall, a loose shoe.

    The new barefoot gurus, followers of certain "experts" have heavily promoted trimming often. This would be doing it yourself or hiring it done every couple weeks. I am saying that if the job is done well the first time, you would seldom need it done again on the normal animal, within the six week time frame. Every 2-3 weeks is excessive, a burden and expense for the owner, unless they like doing hooves themselves.

    Exceptions might be in spring, when hooves do usually grow their fastest. Then perhaps a 5 week visit MIGHT be called for, but animal could probably go six weeks without a problem. This would include the normal animal on soft ground, not used often. He is not going to get dangerously long or unbalanced in that time frame. He will most likely have enough hoof growth that you will need trimming with nippers to get him back down, not just rasping. Even then you still won't be removing an inch or longer amount of hoof.

    A lamanitic or foundered animal might need trimming more often since the hoof growth is abnormal, with bone rotation inside the hoof capsule. That animal probably should not be out on nice grass, or any grass, to prevent another case of founder with more bone rotation.

    Six week trim schedule is pretty much a normal time, over summer with better hoof growth. In Winter hoof growth slows, often allowing 8 week trims, and very little to be removed. Hoof growth can depend on an idividual, with exercise helping circulation, which might aid in better hoof growth. Some will grow hoof in winter, while others only need a light rasp to smooth the edges off. That one just doesn't grow any hoof in winter. Amount of sunlight each day, grass or hay fed, exercise amount, can and does affect hoof growth.

    So I will stick with my 6-week trim schedule for the spring and summer seasons. This is with normal animals, any use, any ground, as the average time between trims. More often, especially every two weeks, then farrier is not doing the job needed correctly. This bi-weekly trimming is very new, an option promoted by certain "experts" and barefooters who want to do their own. It sure seems like a lot of work that doesn't need doing so often. They all complain about how hard trimming is on their bodies. How long it takes them to do it and the work involved. How frightened they are of doing THE WRONG THING! All I can figure is that they think if they do trims more often, suffer greatly doing it, they are better horse owners for working that hard.