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what type of wormer

Posted by zeke Iowa (My Page) on
Tue, Aug 28, 07 at 14:01

i have been having a problem with worms
in my goats this summer .
i have been using Valbazen in the past year
i wormed everything this spring with Valbazen .
then i decided to try Prohibit ( which i have read up on the
Prohibit and it is basically Levasole ??)
and i am wondering if it is time to switch
to another type of wormer .. i am thinking about trying Dectomax , does anybody have any expereince with Dectomax ??
or any other particualar type of wormer that does a good job
keeping the worms down ??
Zeke


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: what type of wormer

Not all wormers work on all worms. You should take a fecal sample to the vet to find out what kind of worms the goats have. That info will tell you which wormer(s) you need.

I alternate between fenbendazole and Ivermectin.


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RE: what type of wormer

Well, you've used two of the three available classes of dewormers - movng on, willy-nilly, to the next class will move you ever faster toward having a population of worms that are reistant to all of them.
You actually were doing things right, by choosing ONE wormer and sticking with it for 1,2,3 years or until it quit 'working'(actually in this case, you've just created a population of parasites resistant to it), then switching to another class.

Robin makes a good point - you need to know which worms you have - and even more importantly, you need to only deworm those animals that NEED to be dewormed. By deworming the entire herd every time, you kill off all of the susceptible worms, and soon you're left with nothing but resistant ones - and constant 'rotation' of wormers just speeds you down that road.

All the 'experts' recommend against using Dectomax in goats.
Ivermectin and Cydectin are in the same class with Dectomax, and may be used, but we try to get producers to stay away from Cydectin, because it's the 'last big gun', and once you select for a population of worms on your farm that are resistant to Cydectin, your days in the goat business are short & numbered.

Here is a link that might be useful: Smart Drenching


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RE: what type of wormer

  • Posted by zeke Iowa (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 29, 07 at 18:06

actually i have used Valbazen for the last 3 seasons
and i have been battling a worm infestation in my kids all summer, they have been having the proverbial worm cough, diareha etc.
i was told by my vet to try another type of wormer, so i went with the prohibit on his advice,andi only asked about the dectomax as i was interested to see if anybody had used it and what sort of results they had with it .
and i do NOT appreciate being told i am "going at it willy nilly "by somebody that has not asked to hear or has been told the whole and entire story .
Zeke


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RE: what type of wormer

Hi Zeke:

I live in Texas on the Gulf Coast - people raise a lot of goats here, but we're advised NOT to raise sheep. I raise sheep and goats.

We live in ideal worm producing country, and this is a constant battle. I've never used Prohibit, or Dectomax, but have probably used similar products without knowing it.

By the way, I've been raising sheep/goats on this land for 10 years.

I started off with land that had been used for raising sorghum, and therefore, was "clean", so I had a "honeymoon" period.

My first wormer was Ivomec with great results for many years - then I started to get resistance. My vet alleges that I was using it improperly, and that he's never had any problems. However, I'm a medical professional myself, and have done the research - he's quite simply wrong!

I tried Valbazen - my stock had NEVER been exposed to it, and I had two deaths. My farmer friend around the corner, who farms 500 acres around here said his cattle have never responded to Valbazen either, and he's also experienced deaths.

The Levamisole boluses were simply horrible to get down the animals, despite my getting the "proper" equipment. If you can't get the medicine down the animal - it's NOT effective!

Then I sought the advise of my sheep-owning friends. They've all switched to Cydectin given orally. My vet checked with A&M - the local vet. college who assured him that it would only be effective for one year tops, and then what would I do????

Well, I've been using it for 5 years, and it's still effective, and my friends have been using it even longer. Yes, it will quit working some day, but my animals would have been dead a long time ago without it.

PLUS, I've subsequently learned about liver fluke. I had the vet do a post-mortem on one of my ewes who didn't respond to any wormer, and it was the liver fluke that got her. Apparently, it doesn't show up in fecal tests, etc. Therefore, I now treat 3 times a year with Curatrem for liver fluke.

The Ivomec-Plus is ALSO good for liver flukes but as my sheep are resistant to the Ivomec - I don't bother to pay for a drug that is not effective.

Valbazen is ALSO supposed to be effective for some stages of fluke but NOT in my or other of my friend's experiences here on the Gulf Coast. I understand that in other areas, it is a perfectly OK drug.

Hope this helps,

Rachel


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RE: what type of wormer

Although it's not "officially" approved for goats, Valbazen's been found to be effective for goats, at increased dosage.

Wiuld like to hear from Valbazen users as to what dosage they find effective.


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RE: what type of wormer

There are only 3 classes of de-worming products sold in the US. There is a 4th-but it is not available in the US. Sounds like you need to move to something other than the white wormer class. If they were mine I wouldn't move to Cydectin unless I absolutely had to. Cydectin is the last effective wormer for a total kill available to us.

Valbazen is just the vet-script for Safequard. Used to be very effective until resistance built up, particularly down south where winter worm kill is not as total as up north. Most southerners are having issues with Safequard, and find it only effective on tapeworms-and then used at 3x the cattle dose. Valbazen wormer is used very similar doses, sometimes doses 3x the strength plus 3 days in a row. They don't call it Safeguard for nothing!

As an alternative the the 3 classes of wormers, some are using DE (Diamactus Earth sp?) but personally I wonder that if the glass-like particles are how the worms are killed, what is happening to the goat's gut?

Our herd in the North East is on Safequard (3xdose) 2x a year, and Ivermect(in) 2-3 times a year. We have a total winter worm kill here so resistance has not taken hold-yet. Also when we worm, we pen those goats for 24-48 hours, so the bulk of the worms partially or totally resistant fall in a controlled are.

We worm only those that need it, to reduce the resistant worms shed on the pastures. We also cull poor performers who show lack of condition and pale eyelids. The best tend to handle the worm load very well.

I ditto the fecal. It's very easy to do, all you need is a 10x microscope, a few slides & slips, and some fresh pellets. Pictures can be found online for identifying what types of worms you find. Probably Barberpole worm-known to cause anemia & bring a goat down. Check into the FAMACHA scoring, a search online will reap many articles.

Brendasue


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RE: what type of wormer

Here's an example of some worm information I've learned pertaining to goats on DairyGoatInfo. This happens to be about Liver flukes (Fasciola Heptica) are often confused on fecals with Haemonchus contortus... so it appears that a medication does not work anymore on those worms when in actuality it is the wrong worm being ID'd. Ivermectin PLUS works on the liver fluke.
If you want to see a very good website that shows pictures of the worms and all about the meds here it is. There is so much information about worms, meds,day to day treatments etc on this website I just can't believe the knowledge these folks are sharing! Anyway I saw this topic and thought I'd send you their way..there is much info about Valbazan too. Dosage, age, schedule, worm etc.
These are dairy goat producers, many from Texas where the worms seem to be bad, and they know their stuff on goats.
There's also info on how to do your own fecals which is really cool to be able to do.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dairy Goat 101


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RE: what type of wormer

Well, I see S.Reith's stuff is still floating around on the Internet. She may know goats, but her writings reveal that she doesn't know enough about parasites to be giving anyone advice about them, and her persistent recommendation for using Ivomec Plus can be dangerous for you folks who have populations of ivermectin-resistant parasites on your farm - and likely NO liver flukes.

Yes, liver flukes can be a problem in some areas of the country - as evidenced by ewesfullchicks' case.
But no, there's not an epidemic of veterinarians missing the diagnosis of fluke infection. If liver flukes are a problem in a veterinarian's service locality, they'll know about it; a self-professed 'professional educator' in WA won't have a clue as to what parasites are present in Iowa, west TX, south GA, etc.

I've spent 30 years in veterinary practice and diagnostic medicine - mostly dealing with food animals - in AL, TN, MO, and KY and have seen exactly ONE case of liver fluke infection - in a captive elk. Have NEVER seen flukes in cattle, sheep, or goats. But I would recognize them - and their eggs - IF I saw them.
Despite Ms. Reith's misguided allegations, fluke eggs and eggs of the trichostrongyle nematodes, like Haemonchus, look very little like one another, other than being sort of oval in outline. Fluke eggs are twice the size of the Haemonchus eggs and have an operculum.
Any veterinarian or trained veterinary technician would have no difficulty in differentiating the two species on a fecal exam.

Have a look, yourself, at the photos she posted in that Dairy Goats 101 link(did she get permission from the publisher?), from 'Veterinary Clinical Parasitology' by Sloss & Kemp - I'll bet even those of you who have never looked at a fecal can differentiate between the appearance of the two - and if you look at the captions, the disparity in size between the two species is pretty significant.

In this part of the country - the Southeastern US, Haemonchus contortus, the barberpole worm, is responsible for over 90% of small ruminant mortalities seen by veterinarians and veterinary diagnostic laboratories.

Good recommendations from brendasue, above - keep up the good work brendasue! Minor correction: Valbazen(albendazole) is in the same class of dewormers as Panacur/Safeguard(fenbendazole), but they're not the same drug.

I'll urge any/all of you to find a veterinarian who is experienced in working with sheep and goats, work with them, and follow their recommendations. If you need direction, try the 'Find A Vet' search on the American Association of Small Ruminant Practitioners website - www.aasrp.org.
Check out the SCSRPC website linked below - there's a lot of good information on parasite management for small ruminant flocks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Southern Consortium for Small Ruminant Parastie Control


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RE: what type of wormer

I have heard here in Texas where worms and resistant worms are a nightmare, goat breeders are starting to mix one quart bottle of Valbazen to one packet of Prohibit mix together and drench at a rate of 2 to 3 cc per 100 lbs. Don't know if this helps but if you have a real problem you will try anything


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RE: what type of wormer

I've heard of prohibit....can't place it...it's not a wormer??? Or is it? Please refresh my memory....

For those in Texas & down south, one more solution (better than losing a whole herd). is to simply dry-lot them, 6 months or so, or 6plus life cycles of stomach worms. Simple-you just have to pay for the hay like us Northerners do for half the year. After 6 months, the pastures will be basically clean, then start your rotations once again.

Yes, I realize that this would cut into your costs, yes I realize many southerners have the extra cushion of year round grazing, 3 kiddings in 2 years, and so many more benefits than northerners do, but I also realize that that is also part of the problem-no freeze means worms year round, no complete kill, no rest, thus resistance gone wild.

We do it up here....and the barn doors are still open (as in in business still), so I find it difficult to believe it would be such a hardship for herds down south. The breeding stock I've priced is actually more expensive down there (longer growing season thus more pocket padding) than it is up here where the season is shorter, and supplementation is the norm.

Management. Manage your herd & your herd will prosper. Learn about worms & their cycles, breed for resistance. Cull the weak, the strong will survive & adapt.

Brendasue


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RE: what type of wormer

brendasue,
Prohibit is levamisole.

Goats were never intended to live and GRAZE in the hot, humid Southeast, where our 'worm season' runs from May to November(or longer). Managing for more browse or taller-growing forages, like sericea lespedeza would be beneficial for folks trying to raise goats.


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