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bless me father for I have sinned I planted an apple
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Posted by
drasaid zone 8 (
My Page) on
Wed, Feb 22, 12 at 15:25
Here I am, hungry one day, and I buy an Opal apple. This is a yellow apple that tastes fabulous. Upon getting down to the core I discovered that some of the seeds looked to be sprouting, so I dibbled them into a container I had. Two came up. They are growing more like grapes than apples though, weeping all along the ground unless staked. So I was curious; what does an Opal apple tree look like? I found their facebook page and asked.
I did not get an answer. Instead I was told that the company OWNS all DNA of the Opal apple, and that my planting a seed was felonious. I politely informed them they could come dig the little trees up if they so desired, but despite that no one has come to do so.
Has anyone heard of this? Is this penalty for being so cheap as to plant apple seeds and wait widespread? Will DNA be checked on each crabby sapling that pops up along the roadside from tossed cores? I would so like to know if this is the case with more fruit or if the Opal people are just special that way. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: bless me father for I have sinned I planted an apple
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- Posted by morz8 Z8 Wa coast (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 25, 12 at 12:33
| Years of research, testing and expense have been incurred by the owners of this apple. It's not unlike any other patented or trademarked plants in that propagation is illegal. To get an Opal apple tree however, you would need a cutting, not seeds. The Opal is across between the golden delicious and the Topaz, and depending on what pollinator was in the orchard, any fruit your saplings produce could be highly variable and may not resemble the apple you ate in any way. It's really not surprising no one was interested in helping you to successfully grow your own Opal trees from seed or otherwise, they are newly introduced and available for sale on a very limited basis - the owner may only be beginning to recover his initial time and investment. |
I knew I would not get an Opal
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| I knew what I got would most likely be a crabapple; I was just amused they seemed to think I would get an Opal from the deal, somehow threatening their investment. I'm not surprised they would want to get a fair deal from Opal trees they would want to sell, but seeds? Seeds most people throw away? Have I really commited some sort of tort? What gives? |
RE: bless me father for I have sinned I planted an apple
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- Posted by morz8 Z8 Wa coast (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 25, 12 at 13:40
| Propagation of patented plants in any way, shape or form without the owner's permission or until the patent term has expired, is strictly prohibited by federal law. They were within their rights to point that out to you :) Will they send the plant police, no - but the error was yours in the asking. No judgment here, I'm just pointing out what's legal - you appear to feel your toes were stepped on when technically they were not. "20 years from the date of filing the application, protects the inventor's right to exclude others from reproducing, selling, or using the plant so reproduced." |
RE: bless me father for I have sinned I planted an apple
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| No, you're not going to get another Opal from a seed, and they know that, but you say they told you that the DNA of Opal is patented too? not just vegetative propagation. So. Those seeds won't produce another Opal, but they do contain the Opal DNA, which you might be thinking of using in your own hybridizing program and thereby stealing their thunder :) I hadn't heard of this before, except in connection with GM corn, where Monsanto prosecutes indigenous dirt farmers in Mexico for keeping their own corn seed to replant after Monsanto's corn in a neighbor's field was so inconsiderate as to send pollen (containing Monsanto's patented GM-modified DNA) wafting over their field pollinating their corn. With most ornamentals, the plant itself is patented and vegetative propagation is prohibited, but anyone can use the DNA as pollen or seed in their own hybridizing programs. Maybe that's changing now. After all there's so much money to be made here ... maybe it's a response to all those bogus Ebay sellers offering seeds of blue roses ... yeah they're overreacting in your case. But as you say, no one's come out to repo your seedlings. Apples are hugely variable in the wild, that's why all commercial and garden apples are vegetatively propagated. I'd heard that if you go see wild apples growing in their native habitat, somewhere in central Asia, that you wouldn't necessarily recognize them all as being apple trees because some are tall, some are bushy, some are practically prostrate like you describe your seedlings as being. |
Now that they have been so prissy about it
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| I'm wishing I had gone into genetics (instead of the oh so unprofitable fine arts degrees I possess) and learned how to diddle the Malus DNA. Some Entish trees, like in the Wizard Of Oz, who would throw Opal apples at passersby would be interesting. That would be worth their worrying, but right now I'm just amused at their paranoia. Oh well. Would that I could afford some cool cultivars right now; I"m lusting after a Muscat De Venus, Jade, Rubaiyat, . . . probably all of which would die here in Texas. |
RE: bless me father for I have sinned I planted an apple
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| This topic comes up regularly on the rose forum too. People taking cuttings off roses and rooting them, and patent violation etc.(at least it USED to come up a lot. I have not visited the rose forum in a few years.) |
Roses I understand
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Roses, yes, you have a chance when growing from cuttings. You can (and I have) grown roses just like the original. I can understand them being cheesed about that (plus there is no way they can stop us! hee hee hee) Patience is all. But an APPLE? Notorious for not following its parent? It just seems ridiculous to me. The two apples are bundles of stems outside, not flowering, definatly not fruiting, and yet felonious. Unreal. |
RE: bless me father for I have sinned I planted an apple
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| Yes, it is a patented variety. Don't dismiss the possibility of someone showing up...only they will be there to arrest you quite publicly to get the word out and you will be facing hard time (5 years) per tree in federal prison. The penalties are the same as stealing music. And the "justice" system knows no limits when it comes to making example for those that lobby them with cash. Also, Malus seeds do not breed true, so you will almost certainly end up with bad tasting apples (think apples that taste like wood or cotton). At best you have a 1/200 chance of getting a seed that produces an acceptable product. Not worth bankruptcy, years in prison, convicted felon status, etc. to me for fruit that is inedible...but hey, perhaps God will save you. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PA
LL&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=PP15963.PN.&O
S=PN/PP15963&RS=PN/PP15963 |
Here is a link that might be useful: Opal apple
Here is the latest.
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A message I got--No problem. We're definitely not going to come to your home to take the apple tree. It's required that we include the legal verbiage for your information. We hope you continue to enjoy Opal Brand apples!-- That was from the Facebook page. So I guess I won't get the Pomme Squad coming after me. I am not going to kill the poor little saplings, anyhow. |
RE: bless me father for I have sinned I planted an apple
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| Planting the seed from a patented tree is not patent infringement. 35 USC 163 states: "In the case of a plant patent, the grant shall include the right to exclude others from asexually reproducing the plant" The key word here is "asexually" generally referring to grafting or rooting. A seed is form of sexual reproduction and not covered by plant patents. Also, patent infringement is a civil matter, not a criminal one. |
Thanks WolfCastle! Not that I was that worried
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| My luck lately has been sufficiently bad that free rent at Club Fed would be an improvement (perhaps I am wrong about that, having never been incarcerated) but it is a relief to know I have not broken laws. I live dull, so everyone I know would be appalled to find I had stepped beyond the bounds of propriety. The blasted trees still have not made anything like flowering buds, so fruit is still a long way away, felonius or otherwise. |
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