If it's a small trade, and you're going with the envelope, fold one in half(opening end to other end), and it should fit inside the other, but not really practical postage wise, for small packs of seed.

Personally, I'd try to find a box that fits in another(if recycling fails). It's probably cheaper, depending on where you can find them and who's selling for what.

The Box
Choose a box with enough room for cushioning material around the contents. If you are reusing a box, cover all previous labels and markings with heavy black marker or adhesive labels.

as seen in the link.

For SASBE, see if the trader is willing to recycle your bubble mailer so that you just mail it with label and postage enclosed.

Even better arrange big trades, stuff it full of seeds for them and then have them send it back to you stuffed full of different seeds. You can get a dozen types of seed in there and send it for 4 stamps plus the cost of your bubble mailer - total cost 4x.42 + .18 = $1.86 for twelve packs of seeds.

You can get a lot of seeds with 5 well planned trades for under $10. And you can do that for 5 years with the big box of mailers.

Lynda

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm100/what.htm

First thing is they actually EXPECT to recycle your SASBE (Self Addressed Bubble Envelope). Even though it's called a SASBE it's really a BEAP (Bubble Envelope and Postage). You put your name and address on the "to" and "from" areas of the bubble envelope. Then tape the top and bottom of a piece of paper with their name and address over yours in the "to" area. Pop a note inside letting them know to just lift up their address and yours is already underneath to make it easy for them to resend.

As for the bubble envelopes themselves.... well, there are two kinds, the regular super-cushiony thick ones that are over 1/4" so more expensive to mail, and there's also what I call the "thin" bubble envelopes and they are under 1/4" and mail for just 42 cents if they are empty mailed like what you're doing and if they don't have many bulky seeds in them.

I get mine at Wal-Greens for 3 for $1.98. You mail it to them, and they mail back your seeds in them so you can reuse them over and over.

I sure hope this helps ya! I sure wish someone had told me at the very beginning. If you have any more questions, even super detailed ones, I'm open for it! LOL

Blessings,
Angela

The biggest thing is because they're thin, they're saving you on extra postage expenses if you mail them from home like I do. I have a postal scale and measurer and the whole works to save on postage.

The basics are that tape weighs down the package more than any little plastic baggies of seeds will, so limit tape use. Send light seed packets, not full sheets of folded and taped papers with seeds inside that are heavy. I tape down and spread out mini seed baggies (these I got for 5 bucks for 500 + a small amount of shipping) and use a very small amount of tape to put them down on notebook paper (again, because it's light weight) and that's what I write my note on as well. You can send 5 to 6 baggies of seeds inside this envelope this way, which is under 1 ounce AND under 1/4 inch thick (for most seeds anyways, so get your ruler out), so it should mail for 42 cents. Even if they try to say it's non-machineable (which if it is really all the above, it IS machineable), but even so that is only an extra 20 cent stamp, which is still affordable.

Maybe you really weren't looking for this much info, so I'll shut up now! LOL... hopefully it can help someone else who might be reading this as well.

Blessings,
Angela

Helpful? probably not. I'd probably go as far as saying nobody will even try. But, nonetheless, the option is there for anyone who wants to try.

ROFL!!! Siris, I am soooo sorry.... I didn't realize how that might come off in type. I didn't mean it with any ill intentions, I promise! I do think your ideas are great to apply towards plant trading. With seed trading, you have to mail in a bubble envelope for two reasons... other traders expect it in bubble most of the time... and, if it's in anything bigger than an envelope then it costs more to trade seeds than to just buy them outright yourself, and you'd get more seeds, too... I think the biggest deal is lowering, not the packaging costs per se, but more-so, the postage costs...

Ladycraft, you're right! It's loads of fun, and it really is like Christmas... some of our members are so generous it truly brings me to tears! I'm so totally going to pay it forward on my trading...

Anyways, on your question, when did you get the seeds? If they're a little older seeds (past two years), you might test viability, if that's what you're referring to. Are you familiar with the paper towel method? The only way to test to see what percentage germinate is to use some of the seeds in a test. I get better results with trying to get my seedlings up by a higher germination percentage when I use the paper towel / baggie method anyways. Then, I only plant those that have sprouted roots. Why plant the ones that aren't going to come up? LOL

Blessings,
Angela

The box, however, has some flexibility. End tabs folded in, and box flattened, it might be the right size to be shipped there as a letter. There, it gets unfolded, filled, shipped back, and being generous weight wise, 2 ounces heavy. And, if the seeds are in a small envelope themselves, no need for bulky packing material. Return lables could be done via the paper flap, postage taped inside.

Would that not potentially drop the overall cost, as opposed to just the shipping? You'd probably pick up about half of what you'd normally pay out for all back, but potentially, you would also get more in return.

So far this year I've sent a number of trades that cost $1.34 to mail, a $1.51, a $1.68 and a $1.85 one. Most of those went out in my $0.18 brand new bubble mailers except the big one where I used a recycled mailer. Usually I try to 10 - 20 types of seed in each trade and I make sure to include a couple of selections in really ample amounts from my best seed producing plants.

Now that's a little bit of cost to mail, but the value of my seed packs would range from about $50 - $300 if you were to try to buy the stuff retail. And the trades I've received back have almost always been contained $50 - $300 worth of seed. I've counted up the seed and checked catalog prices and been amazed at the generosity of those I've traded with.

For me, the frugal part of this is in intentionally gardening so that you have something worth trading and then being choosy about trading with people who have mature gardens with a lot of variety and who have enough experience seed saving that you get good seeds.

And then for good karma give away an abundant mailer or two of seeds to the occasional person that doesn't have anything of value to trade yet but who strikes you as a nice or deserving person who will actually value and grow the seeds. That's worth giving away a bubble envelope and a buck and a half in postage.

Just my $0.02 over a cup of coffee. :)

Lynda

You could always make a note at the top of your trade list that you are new at seed saving, not quite sure if you are doing it perfectly, and that you'd still like to trade seeds.

When folks have fairly young gardens, it really can be important to make every seed count and traders like that may choose to avoid trading for seeds unless they are pretty sure that they'll grow well.

The people with older gardens, though, often are more willing to just give things a try and if they grow, great. If not, no big deal. And if your trade list mentions that you'd like to hear back from people that grew your seeds, it can be a really valuable way to find out how well your seeds did grow.

There are plenty of people on the forum who can afford to risk a less than perfect trade, especially if it helps someone who's new at this learn what works and what doesn't. If your profile makes it clear that you don't feel like you are a pro at this but you are trying to do your best, that should be fair enough warning.

Maybe somebody who only has a dozen precious seeds to trade will avoid trading with you, but then again maybe someone with a field full of flowers would be happy to take a chance on you. And I can guarantee you that if you do make some mistakes in your seed harvesting you probably are making the same mistakes that everyone makes until they get things figured out.

Hope that helps you feel less insecure about seed trading. :)

Lynda

The original poster dislikes paying the $3.60 total for shipping his envelope in an envelope. Going under your direction of sam's, and them not having a membership(and assuming they buying one), He'd be paying 44.50 for the envelopes(or so), before postage. Assuming 2 envelopes get sent, it'd be $3.56 before a stamp touches the envelope. This of course, not counting how far he has to go to find said sam's, because, last I remember, they weren't quite the plague as walmart was. So, for single or bulk trades, the sam's way costs far more. Logically, he'd want the cheap, endless recycle as opposed to his 2-there-1-back method.

As for the "value" of the seeds in your trades, I childishly say "Liar, liar, pants on fire". Regardless of something's potential retail value, it only carries the worth of what someone is willing to pay, in this instance $0(+shipping.), unless you started selling seeds from trades, which probably wouldn't go over well with anyone.

The person wanted simple information on reducing costs, not someone bragging. Plus, it's bad for karma and helps no-one.

I just thought the original poster was looking to find ways to bring the most flower value to their garden for the least out of pocket outlay. I didn't realize that the topic was limited to splitting hairs over postage and where to buy mailers.

I simply meant to say that if you earmark a bit of your garden to grow a couple of less common plants that produce a lot of seed, you position yourself better to participate in trades that get you so many goodies that you might even want to spend an extra stamp.

I didn't realize that people here consider the value of seeds they receive to be $0. It's good to be know how little they are valued.

Lynda

"Does anybody have frugal tips on seed sharing? Are there ways to cut bubble envelopes down to size and still meet the postal service rules? Specifically how does one send a SASBE (self-addressed stamped bubble envelope) without buying a big bubble envelope, a bigger manila envelope, and six stamps. That's about $3.60. That's almost (gag) retail!"

The person specifically said they had a problem paying almost retail for a packet of seeds that they paid a bubble envelope and a bit of writing for.

As for seed value, time to play with examples!(scientific names for flowers only from me, cause I don't know all translations)
Viola-Wittrockiana Hybriden, from the brand Kronensaat: 0.29€ for enough seeds for about 40 plants(going by label, not personal count.)
Same flower, from the brand Kiepenkerl: 0.79€ for about 50 plants.
are the approximate 10 more seeds worth the 0.50€ more? No, probably not. Are the plants any different? most likely not. If there was a third brand that sold it for 100 per 40, does that make all worth the top brand cost? Not a chance.

Now that I've wasted your time with that pointless info, to the real point. The seeds I have: Not for (re)sale, so value is $0 and 0€. If I were to give someone the seeds I stated above, I wouldn't bother saying the price. Why? Because I don't think they: A) care, B) are planning to sell what I give them. The value of 0 anything doesn't mean that I'd not give someone a solid whack on the head for taking them, it just meant you're not buying them from me. But, if you really wish to say the dollar value matters, put a large sign in your front yard with the total value of all the plants, trees, and grass, and see the response to it.

I have found, though, that quite a few traders do not have 10+ items that I want in trade, but there are occasional ones that do.... but, do they want to trade more than 10 things... some people freak out if you ask for a trade that big, but others are totally fine with it.

Oh, my... as I read on, things got a little ugly... I actually liked Lynda's advice for the most part. You can always keep what you like, throw out the rest. I could of attacked your "box" idea pretty badly, but chose not to as it does have some minute shred of useful info for the occasional traders who ship boxes full of seeds... ROFL (just friendly humor there) LOL

Blessings,
Angela

Blessings,
Angela

This question was asked, "Do you have any advise on preparing the seeds for sending?"

Some helpful advice was DEFINITELY given, so thank you again for the great ideas! I would like to add that as far as I can tell, most seeds simply need cleaned in a fine-mesh collander to wash off the excess gel around them (for veggies/fruits), then laid out to dry. Many people use paper plates to thn layers of seeds out (not piled up), so they can dry. I have gotten some seeds in plastic baggies that were moldy, and I wasn't happy about that. This simply means that they did not let the seeds fully dry. Whether they be flowers or food crops, the seeds need to lay out to FULLY dry or they could get moldy or even germinate inside of plastic. If you're worried about how dry they are because they're fresh, put them inside a paper coin envelope or a paper packet of some kind. (Tip here is that notebook paper weighs far less for shipping than printer paper.)

Next, make sure you label them good and are clear with how many seeds you have in each of your packets. Some people will get offended if you are not clear on this, including yourself. I've found it's best to let them know up front and that way everyone knows what is expected and can't be disappointed that way. I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, I'm sure the helpful repliers here along with myself would be happy to try to help further!

Blessings,
Angela

Oh, I know it has some drawbacks. Price range per(under a dollar to $20+, shipping when ordered online), finding right size, quantity, but will say constructive critizim is more than welcome. The box neither has to be full, no next to empty, although the thought of someone popping open a small box and an ounce and a half of any seed falling out is funny. A box for holding a cd, or 2 audio cassettes, would be enough, no need for something massive. Yes, storing postage inside a flattened box that's taped at the ends has the potential to lose the stamps, as would a cut envelope being taped shut risk losing it's contents.

Though, from what I've seen here, many just post once and lurk while waiting for what they think is better for their needs. Yes, it sounds bad to point at a drawback to part of an idea, but with something like shopping clubs, where you have to buy the right to shop without paying a special tax(never saw defined number for this, heard quite the range, though), and saying it's good, but not naming the hidden cost, is more of a trap than good idea.

I'm open to listening to ideas and critiques over my ideas, but if you want to attack it, feel free. I'll still gladly discuss it.

One day, I'll get back into remembering the coding for forums.

Well, there's just two things on the box idea (seriously not attacking here, just discussing)...

1. Nobody uses boxes here on seed-trading, just plant trading, because of the cost. It is more expensive to mail. Most of my mailings that were the bigger ones, were just 83 cents to $1.17 or so at most. If I mailed in a box, it would have cost more to mail as a parcel, rather than a large envelope.

2. The idea of having very little in the mailing in regards to the size of what it is being mailed in, like you said, is certainly a drawback. You know how you open a box of store-bought food thinking you were getting a full box? Then, you look inside to see it's not even 1/4 of the way full. Yep, the disappointment factor is certainly an issue. LOL

Boxes are definitely easier to recycle, so you wouldn't really have to spend money on envelopes that were padded, but you would have to spend more to mail them, as they weigh more and are charged parcel rates, which are higher.
This cost is more significant than the bubble mailer cost was, and you could still reuse the bubble envelope, making that cost nil many times in your trades.

For every bubble mailer you send out, you usually get one back from a trade. I've bought 6 envelopes that I've used over and over again or have received another bubble envelope in trade to make up for the one I sent out. I also reuse the ones that come to my home in the mail from other things I get.

The bubble mailers I use are 6x9 inches, which is pretty roomy to put plenty of seeds in. You could also use the really big ones that look like they're the size of printer paper, or even bigger, for the same price, still large envelope rate at just 83 cents. The smaller mailers can be mailed for only 62 cents, even with the non-machineable charge added in, so there's no comparison which is the most cost effective.

I do really like the idea of reusing boxes, though, for plant trades. I just did that, a matter of fact!

Blessings,
Angela

Yeah, it's a bit annoying to get a box a bit bigger than what you get, sometimes. Personally, I'm more traumatized by a large box, filled with packing peanuts, holding something small than a half-filled ceral box.

1. Nobody uses boxes here on seed-trading, just plant trading, because of the cost. It is more expensive to mail. Most of my mailings that were the bigger ones, were just 83 cents to $1.17 or so at most. If I mailed in a box, it would have cost more to mail as a parcel, rather than a large envelope.

I think I either stated something wrong when explaining it, or it was just missed. I'll try again, cause I think it was me not saying what I meant right.

Skipping the search to by a cd/small shipping box.
(skipping into cheapland, too)
Let's say, for example, you go to the dollar store, and find a picture frame in the box. A simple frame, holding the standard picture(3x5, I think). Frame comes in a simple box, slightly larger, and half an inch thick. Box closes with the tabs on the end of the flaps. When you fold the little tabs and flaps inside, and flatten the box, it gains about 1 inch to width. Looking at a few retail item boxes, all are the same thin cardboard, so folded box falls under 1/4 inch thick collapsed. Mails under standard letter, probably picks up 20 cent charge for being somewhat ridgid.

Going out, can call it 62 cents, fairly.
Coming back(saying person is giving a generous 40 gram pack) it falls under $1.34
total becomes 1.96 for a one way trade.
Large envelope with same trade falls under 1.83, round trip
Normal, saying it has the bulk charge(1 way) 1.21

Yes, I do see the principle of it being cheaper for envelopes, moreso for 2 way exchanges, but when you add in costs of having to replace(assuming you don't keep getting free shipped ones) as they wear out, cause paper ones would be prone to a bit more wear and tear. The small envelopes would probably be a bit more protected, as they easily fit in a mailbox, same with the small box. Large envelope might not fully fit in mailbox, meaning extra wear and tear from rolling, weather exposure, meaning faster replace rate. Box and small has weather exposure when going from mailbox to house, so not as much damage, sometimes none.

Mainly, cost would boil down to how often the package is replaced. I don't know how many trades each envelope survives, but you'd probably have to replace it more frequently, which adds up quick.

Seems benefit falls on survival rate of envelopes and frequency. Yes, shipping a box around alot would overpower cost of envelopes fairly quickly, even if initial shipping counts as normal stamp, and considering if it does pick up the ability to hold more.

Fine for the occasional one-way trader, I guess, but still cheaper than original poster's amount. Still too bad of an idea. All falls on original poster's intent with it.

Yes, I do see the principle of it being cheaper for envelopes, moreso for 2 way exchanges, but when you add in costs of having to replace(assuming you don't keep getting free shipped ones) as they wear out, cause paper ones would be prone to a bit more wear and tear.

I'm not sure why you think it would be cheaper only for 2 way exchanges. With the one way exchange you can reuse the same envy over and over. I protect certain areas of the envy for reuse, like the "to" and "from" address areas and where you open the envy with some shipping tape. It does weigh down the package a little, but doesn't cause it to go over 1 ounce, therefore, it costs the same to mail.

As for paper getting more wear and tear, yes, it normally would. That is why I add a little shipping tape to the areas that would wear out quickly from reuse. Plus, I have a constant new supply coming to me from purchased bubble envelopes others are sending, so the whole point here is really mute when you consider that part. About half of the trades I do will send me a new envelope. When bought in quantity new, they can be as little as 8 cents a piece.

Large envelope might not fully fit in mailbox, meaning extra wear and tear from rolling, weather exposure, meaning faster replace rate.

When we refer to large envelope, it's what the USPS calls a large envelope. It's not necessarily a HUGE envy... LOL... Even the (what I would call) small envies, which are 6x9, fit very nicely in mail boxes. I have, though, gotten a very large envelope a couple times, but very rarely. I could totally see that the bending, etc. from going in and out of mailboxes with that size would certainly cause the envy to break down much quicker.

The most affordable thing I've found so far that is also the most reusable is cutting the bubble envies lengthwise to fit inside a regular, business-size envelope. I call these "sleeves" that I insert the seeds into and close with a single small strip of tape. I place that inside the envy and mail. Depending on the thickness, it's either 62 cents (with the non-machineable charge added in) or 83 cents if it's over 1/4" thick causing it go at the large envelope rate.

The best part is that the person receiving it can reuse these sleeves and pass them on in the trades for just about ever! They don't wear out when you use them like this.

Blessings,
Angela

I think most don't save any and all boxes. Larger boxes maybe, but small, not unless there's some seasonal fragile decorations that need it. Small box would be for when you have it, you use it, as opposed to flying out for the envelopes. You could do the lazy way a few times with it before hitting the cost for a pack of envelopes.

Though, when you have the right size for it, it could pay off in the form of a few more seeds, types, or bulbs.

I'm not sure why you think it would be cheaper only for 2 way exchanges.
Cause my coffee wasn't done when I started writing. I don't think I can even explain that now. Definately limiting posts to afternoon, or when I get a few pots in me, only.

If there's not one in your local area, and you're not the organizer type, look in nearby metro areas that you can join into. Its a lot more fun to spend a day talking to other gardeners, seeing what they are growing, discussing challenges like weather, soil, kids and dogs, than sending an envelope to an anonymous address and hoping you get one in return. The cost is some gasoline. I have never come home from a plant swap feeling down. I always learn a lot, like the people I trade with, get lots of seeds and plants I never had before, get a chance to share what I know, and see the faces of the people who would otherwise be just a callsign on the computer screen.

One of the most obvious advantages of the in-person swaps is that you are getting plants and seeds for things that grow well in your area. Mailing things to far-off locations, who knows if the plant you start from that seed will thrive where you live? We all know that being in the same zone is no guarantee either. I love the swaps and look forward to them the same way I looked forward to Christmas when I was a kid. Cheryl

Basically, why eat at McDonald's when the pizza/chinese/whatever place will deliver? Might not be able to do it daily, but you still get something better than the same old thing.

Lynda, great advice, sweetie. I know at the seed trading forum, some people won't trade for less than 10 envelopes of seeds, because they want the most for their money, and I don't blame them.

I send out newbie trades sometimes. I got quite a few when I was a newbie, and I look back now and appreciate them so much, knowing that these people were simply being kind. I had nothing of value to trade, a few common things, but they took them and sent me free seeds too, and I love them for it.

You're a sweetheart. Don't let the jerks get you down.

He's an American that now lives in Germany. When on the WORLDWIDEWEB, it's generally not nice to ignorantly run for your pitchfork and torch and throw out insults.

As for the accident part of the post. Believe it or not, plants grow around the world, not just in Florida. People might not have a garden there, but they can have the same plants, and atleast offer their expierence with them.

Blessings,
Angela

Regarding gel on seeds, its best to dry the seed on a paper plate with the gel on it, and once dry, freeze dry it by putting in the freezer in a paper bag for a week. When you take it out, wrap immediately in plastic then a paper towel so the condensation that will form does not rewet the paper bag of seeds. Once it has warmed to room temp, you can take out the seeds and put in plastic baggies.

Don't worry about dried gel on seeds, as long as it is completely dry it won't mold and may help the seed to sprout. If you try to wash gel off with water, you might end up sprouting the seeds before they dry.

Freeze drying seeds in the freezer works on all seeds and won't damage a seed that is already air dried. Freezing forces out the last water. Ever take a plastic bag out of the freezer and seen "snow" in the corners? That is the water forced out, and why it is best to freeze dry in a paper bag that breathes.

I like to mail seeds in plastic bags in case of rain or snow. They won't mold if they are thoroughly dried and freeze dried first. You can get small plastic bags in the craft section of Walmart or the bead section of craft stores like Michaels for very little money.

You can cut a bubble envelope in half and save on postage. I recently sent 2.75 oz of seed in a bubble envelope cut in half to about the size of a #10 or legal size envelope, and paid 1.17 in postage. The other person sent me back 2.1 oz seed in a full bubble envelope and paid 1.51 in postage. Only because my envelope was smaller, I paid .34 cents LESS to mail 5/8ths oz MORE seed. When I sealed it, I folded over the top by 1/4 and stapled it, then put tape over the staples. Tape alone could tear open.

So, if you can cut a BE in half and send it for less loaded, you can also fold it in half, tape it, and send it as a SASBE empty for even less postage.

Just put your address and postage on, then fold it in half, tape it shut, and put on the the address and postage of the person you are getting seeds from. Leave the envelope itself unsealed, or lightly taped, with a note in the bottom inside listing the seeds you have requested. (What with other requests, user names and real names, it is easy for the trader to get mixed up and maybe send you someone else's trade. The note won't fall out of the unsealed envelope if it is behind the fold.) When they receive it. they can just slit the tape with a knife, open it out flat, take out your note, load seeds, and seal it shut and mail.

I use a digital diet scale from Walmart that cost $19.00 three years ago and is still running on the first battery. It gives weight results in oz or grams. I mostly grow vegetables and have traded large heavy seeds like corn and bean so it is useful to have a scale.

It goes without saying, SAVE every bubble envelope you ever get and reuse them. Even ask friends and family to save BEs for you. I have never bought new BEs and I have a big box of them on top of the bookcase, mostly from commercial seed orders and other things I have bought by mail order.

PS Stamps pasted on plastic tape can peel loose, even the self adhesive stamps. If you have to put a stamp on clear tape, wipe the tape with alcohol to remove any oil and make the stamp stick better, or have the post office weigh it and stick a big paper postage label on.

That's 1/4 inch, not 1/4 envelope.

wipe the tape with alcohol

That's rubbing or isopropyl alcohol, not booze.

Chris - Girl! Fancy seeing you here in this forum as well... too cool! I can't tell you how big a smile I got when I read your post here. I don't check this forum every few days like the seed exchanges, but I do come periodically to get some more great advice and to give it when I can! Thanks so much for your kind words.

HappyDay - That was some wonderful stuff in your post! I see you and I think a lot alike... :-)

Blessings,
Angela

Then, I put a strip of shipping tape over the "from" and "to" areas, as well as under where my stamps will go to protect the envelope. I actually put address labels on top of the tape, so the trader I'm sending it to can reuse it as well. If I write directly on the envelope, it's not as easily reused numerous times.

Okay... any more ideas anyone? I tell you, I just LOVE this thread.... :-)

Blessings,
Angela