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creekweb

protecting trees from utility tree services

creekweb
9 years ago

The local power company (and other) tree services have in recent years become more aggressive and bold in their approach - they'll cut any branches that grow within about a 15 foot radius of the wire (and then some), leaving some trees growing near the poles cut back to about 7 feet tall. I have some fruit trees that could never grow tall enough to interfere with the wire but grow in the zone in which the tree companies prune, so I'm considering ways to protect them.

My first thought was to determine which companies were doing the trimming and voicing my concerns to them, but upon consideration, I really have no faith that that would be effective.
So I've been thinking of ways of providing physical protection. One thought was to run bird netting over the tops of the trees, which given their location would not be difficult to install. I believe the bird netting would deter the tree companies, but the problem I see is that the netting would trap fallen leaves and other debris and require more maintenance than I am able to provide. Another thought was to use tall stakes connected by wires, but this could be difficult to set up. Another thought was to run a very high fence, but I don't know that this would be permitted.

Anyone dealt with similar issues or have other solution ideas for this problem?

Comments (15)

  • appleseed70
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes...I have...and you are right...they have become more aggressive here also. They just went all around my neighborhood and surprisingly to me most people were loving it. Just like you said they cut many down to a stump maybe 9' tall completely devoid of any limbs or branches. Looked like those WW2 movies where all the trees are blown to hell everywhere you look.
    The tree company that did the work here was Asplundh...I think they are national chain, but I'm not sure of that.
    I followed your first thought and when I seen them in the neighborhood working I went and talked with them. I BSed with them for a bit and pointed out my yard and my plum tree which has grown well within their zone. I told them it was getting topped by me when dormant and that it wouldn't grow any taller anyway. I cooly asked them to skip my tree and mentioned that if any of them needed a bathroom or cup of coffee to just knock on the door.
    They seemed to appreciate that since I'd noticed they didn't have a porta john on site...at least I didn't see one.

    They thanked me and said "no worries friend...we'll drive right by"...and they did.
    They also never asked for use of the bathroom and I was glad for that, but it would have been ok. Their shoes were muddy as hell though. They waved everytime they went by.

    As an electrician myself I am sympathetic with the power companies need to keep a clean line area. Let's face it...everyone thinks their tree will never be an issue...but they so often are and it costs the power co. bigtime, no to mention inconvenience to other homeowners.

    Try to catch them early...talk to them and be cool. You don't want to come off as a pissy prudish homeowner, just a cool responsible guy who is willing to help them a bit.
    PS...sometimes water or ice can be a nice offer.

  • insteng
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've never had a problem with them. Just talk to the foreman of the crew and tell him what you need. I've had them take down trees that were actually out of the way of the power lines that I needed removed and they were happy to do it for me. Normally if you are friendly with them they will listen and do what you want within reason.

  • cousinfloyd
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Asplundh is coming through my neighborhood right now. I talked to one of their guys just this morning about some little pawpaws I had planted in the right of way to my neighbor's house (on my land.) He said their policy is to trim anything that gets within 10' (vertically) of the power lines, but I've also seen them completely cut down little scrub trees (which I'm sure is how most fruit trees would look to them, too) that were only 8' tall. Still, this crew has been very easy to get along with. They also dropped off a huge load of free wood chips for me. Unlike Insteng, however, I have not found them very willing to do extra work. For instance, I have a big (2'+ diameter) pine tree that is leaning toward the power line and is also starting to show signs of dying (and pine trees tend to go quick once they start.) If they'd take it down for me now, I could get a couple nice logs for boards out of it, but they seem to want to wait until the wood starts to decay. There's also another similarly large beech tree I'd love to have taken down to create a spot for a greenhouse. It's healthy and it's not leaning toward the power lines, but it's still too close to the power lines for me to risk felling it myself.

  • appleseed70
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They get paid for clearing the power lines and they have to draw the line somewhere. Can you just imagine how much "free" work they'd be doing if the just cleaned up for everyone?

    Even if they wanted to be nice and do it for you they would be risking their jobs. Ask yourself...if I was in their position...would I do it?
    The obvious answer...is NO, no you would not.

    When it is a clearly, recongnizable hazard to the lines they will take it down and they will give it to you, they did for everyone here. They even cut it up for those who wanted it for firewood. Easier and cheaper than chipping and hauling off.

  • creekweb
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the ideas, but I happen not to be in a position where I can stand guard over my trees - I need a setup where they're on autopilot and can fend for themselves in this regard.

    My assumption is that the tree companies operate under some directives or guidelines but also exercise a fair amount of discretion in deciding which trees to cut. I think the best strategy in protecting the trees is by making their pruning undesirable in the eyes of the cutters. The more I consider it, the more I like the idea of using bird netting to quickly construct a canopy over the trees to achieve that end. The trees so draped would be within a structure, however flimsy; pruning the trees would require their damaging, entering and violating the structure. I don't believe the tree companies are bold enough to go that far, even if some limbs are within their zone. The presence of the structure also suggests that the trees are not volunteers or 'weed trees,' but trees that someone has taken ownership of, and I believe that the companies are more likely to approach such trees more carefully.
    My initial hesitation with going with this idea was due to the need for maintenance of the netting, but I think an occasional quick cleaning with a blower would keep it in shape.

  • cousinfloyd
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it's an oversimplification to describe it as "free work for landowners" for electric companies to pay to cut down and eliminate trees that will otherwise require periodic trimming and moreover will soon need to be taken down completely anyways, likely within the next year (unless it's going to fall on the power line first), all at the power company's expense. I think the dollar incentives are just that the Asplundh people just aren't properly incentivized to work for the interest of the power company that's paying them. I expect Asplundh gets paid the same no matter how long it takes them to complete whatever area they contract for, so I'm sure their incentives aren't fully in line with the power company that foots the bill for the periodic work and any extra work that comes up in between, as well as repairs to the power lines and the responsibility for power outages. On the other hand, I guess the Asplundh employees are simply working by the hour, so they may be more inclined to look after a friendly landowner that's there face-to-face as a real person than their bosses... lots of unknowns, and it probably can't hurt to ask.

    Creekweb, have you thought about posting signs that your trees are fruit trees that are pruned annually and that you the landowner are guaranteeing that they'll never get within 10' of the power lines (or something like that)? I might still be afraid that the guys maintaining the right of ways would just be to gung ho to slow down, but if you can make it clear that they're fine completely passing over your area without doing any work at all, why would they want to work on an area they could completely ignore. Along those lines, it would probably help if you could eliminate any other trees or adjacent issues that they'd need to deal with so they really could completely ignore and bypass the whole area.

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I found the easiest way to protect the trees is to not put them in the path of the power lines. This seems rather simple. i have about 21 trees and none of them are in the path of power lines. You plant a tree under a line what do you expect?

  • cousinfloyd
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Drew, if you have more than enough equally usable land elsewhere (and you don't already have trees that were previously planted in or near right of ways for whatever reasons), sure, that's the easiest way, but this discussion is for all those other circumstances. Right now I'm listening to a guy with a chainsaw cutting down trees on my property that are 10' outside of the power company right of way (but some of them had branches, which another guy cut off yesterday, which had extended into or very near the right of way.) So practically speaking the danger zone for fruit trees is significantly greater than the legal right of way and certainly not just "under a line." That may be especially true in less built up areas like where I live.

  • Fascist_Nation
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Every state has different regulations. As far as the government is concerned it is your responsibility to NOT plant anything that will grow within ____ feet of electrical wires. In AZ it is 10 feet. I have read others on this forum screwed by 20 feet.

    So the first step is to know what the restriction is in your state?

    Then prune (may need to get creative; V-system) your trees under electric line to keep them in compliance. Or the crews will "prune" (read top) them for you...and in some places send you the bill for the butchery.

    This is a safety electric shock thing, safety fire/arcing thing, safety electrical short power outage thing and a safety falling branch/tree and pull down a line thing.

    Or plant something else under the wiring.

  • lsoh
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In our area, the contractor asks well in advance for permission. I don't know what would happen if you said no. A couple of years ago, they came through our neighborhood. We'd all like to keep the power on so we all said yes. Big mistake. They hacked the front half of every tree back to the trunk. They looked awful. And we have ice storms. Physics says that if you add a bunch of weight to one side of the tree, with zero counter balance on the other, they are crashing down. In this case, away from the street and into the homes.

    Several homes, including ours had beautiful 50+ year old trees that had been "trimmed" for the power lines in the past. But this time they didn't "trim". They butchered. One lady came home to find her trees destroyed. She was trying to sell their house and what had been financial assets were now hazardous eyesores. That normally quite 95 pound lady put the fear of god into the supervisor. Ultimately, the power company came back and removed all such trees at the request of every home owner in our neighborhood.

  • thecityman, Zone 7a/6b near Nashville
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I shutter to admit that I am involved the bidding of tree trimming along power lines. I don't think there is a state law governing the width of right-of-ways, they vary base on the size/height/number of lines, and are determined at the time the lines are installed via the purchase (or condemnation) of right of way. For our city, the vast majority of typical service lines (the ones going through most neighborhoods) are 20 foot right of ways. This means the power company/city electric department has a total width of 20 feet, and technically they can cut anything within that 20 feet that they deem as "interfering" or "likely to interfere" with power lines. Understand that this doesn't mean 20 feet out from the power lines...it just means that the power lines must lie within the 20 foot easement. Ideally, and most of the time, the power lines lie near the middle of the easement, meaning a tree or limb would have to be within 10 feet of the line in most cases. If all this sounds a little subjective (ie "likely to interfere" is debatable) that is-unfortunately- by design to some degree. Legally, though, a utility definitely has no right to touch a tree or limb outside the right-of-way or easement. To further complicate things, the lines are not always in the middle, which means you cannot just look at a line and come out 10 feet on either side and be confident your tree is in the safe zone. The power line could be at the outside edge, meaning a tree COULD be 20 foot from line and still within an easement, leaving it up to power company to decide whether it is "likely to interfere" in the future. The only way to know with absolute certainty where the easement/right of way is would be to look at your survey or have one done.
    To answer the question of how the subontractors get paid-at least around here- they all bid per mile of power line. Because that bid would clearly be different for a mile of woodland than a mile of cow pasture, the subs are responsible for inspecting the entire length of the line(s) up for bid and base their bid accordingly.
    Finally, I will tell you that people often come to City Hall rather than talking to the contractors and ask us not to cut their trees. 80% of the time, if the trees are even borderline or less, we call or go to the foreman and tell him not to cut a certain tree(s). But we also get requests from people who are just unreasonable about it....people who hate tree topping at all cost and say as long at the tree is not actually touching the line we should leave it alone. That just won't fly since we usually only trim every few years.
    But if your tree is anywhere near a reasonable distance at all-even if it probably isn't the best thing for the power company- they will usually agree to leave it alone. If the OP is worried about them cutting when he is not home or has no warning, I'd consider putting up a small sign saying "please do not cut this tree without consulting property owner". If they see it they will contact you. Remember, at the end of the day they have to answer to elected officials and/or state and federal utility regulators, and none of those like to hear stories about the big power company taking advantage of the little homeowner! Good luck.

  • cousinfloyd
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for sharing that perspective, cityman.

  • creekweb
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Cityman for the insider scoop. Would you say that negotiations of this type are usually made at the municipality level with their serving as go betweens with the utilities?
    I've noticed that in different neighborhoods, sometimes even in the same municipality there will be a great disparity in the way the pruning is handled: in more affluent areas I've seen large beautiful trees left mostly untouched though with limbs often grow
    within 10 feet of the lines; in other areas I've seen butcher jobs. Now I can see how one homeowner can petition to have his trees bypassed, but how does a whole neighborhood accomplish this? Are there neighborhood groups that petition, or are there some powerful members in the community who just get the point across that they don't want the trees in their neighborhood disfigured?

  • hoseman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I did not read the complete thread, but I had a similar problem and I wrote the power company and asked that I be notified when they were coming on my property to trim trees. Also, I asked that they follow the ANSI rules when they pruned the trees on my property near the lines. This past year the power company sent me a letter telling me who the contractor was that would be trimming on my property and the a contact person and phone number for the contractor and the power company. I was home and went out and talked to them, I had no problems with them. They did want my permission to "short cut" the work, but I said no and there was not a problem.

  • thecityman, Zone 7a/6b near Nashville
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You are observing a sad, unfortunate reality in terms of how affluent neighborhoods are treated differently than less affluent ones. You will also notice that 9 times out of 10, roads in high end subdivisions are maintained much better than other areas. Its not because, as conspiracy theorists will claim, someone is bribing a city official, etc. But the truth isn't much better. The fact is that the affluent neighborhoods just have more influence. They make more campaign donations, they have more visible jobs, serve on more boards, etc. In short, they tend to know more officials and have more influence. Again, this doesn't mean that they go to the local mayor/city manager and say "I need you to treat our neighborhood trees differently". But electric Dept officials and ground crews both understand that if they anger people in those neighborhoods, they are angering people who know their bosses and have the power and influence to contact those bosses and have their complaints listened to and in return they are more likely to get chewed out if they butcher a tree in front of a wealthy, well known and connected citizen than if they butcher one in front of a working man's house. Its wrong. Its sad. But its true. But all this is more of a sociology/ political science discussion than a direct answer to your question. The last sentence of your last post indicates you already know this anyway. I doubt many homeowner associations are organized enough to make a collective request about tree trimming, but if they did-especially one from an affluent neighborhood- it would certainly carry a lot of weight and result in less trimming.
    In terms of who to talk to...it depends. I don't know if your electricity is provided by your city government, county government, or some non-local-government electrical cooperative. But whoever you pay your electric bill too is who you should talk to. And while its a bit more of a hassle, going in person and asking to see whoever is responsible for line maintenance will have far more impact than an e-mail or phone call and the person will be far more likely to remember you the next time they are working in your yard. I'm extremely impressed by hoseman's experience of notifying the power company a year ahead and then having them specially and specifically contact him a year later before trimming, but I fear most electric companies or contractors won't be that organized. But I do think they will almost always accommodate you if you have reasonable expectations. So again, it comes down to whether they know your desire- so contacting in advance AND a small sign (in case they don't get word of your request) are your best bet. Good luck.

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