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Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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Posted by raygrogan Iowa and Hawaii (My Page) on Mon, Jan 5, 09 at 9:47
| Thanks for all the great grafting tips here. I have always stored my scion in the fridge as virtually everyone says "do NOT freeze". However, no one gives any results of testing in the freezer. When I take the scion it will be well below freezing, and trees (and people) around here spend most of the winter frozen stiff, but revive just fine in the spring. Last year I had lots of failures and suspect scion health. The freezer seems to have some potential advantages - zero ethylene, less metabolism, maybe less drying, etc. My other option is a crisper drawer in regualr house fridge. Any thoughts? |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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| Hi Ray. That sounds like a reasonable assumption- but I would also "assume" that many people cutting scions would not be able to get them directly into the freezer, (especially if they were working in commercial quantities), and I think an extra freeze-thaw cycle would be hard on the scion. But maybe there's more to it than that, and I'll be following this thread to learn what more there might be, as I'd be glad to buy some time with the freezer if it worked. Good luck, M |
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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| Freezing temperatures don't count as chill time. Chill time is below 45 and above freezing. Therefore the scion buds might be lost in time and would not wake up. |
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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| Thanks - the chill time, or lack of it, makes sense. If nothing else I may test a few. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I'll report what happens. I doubt it will work better than the tried and true, and would indeed be more trouble on a commercial scale. |
Freezer burn
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| I am not sure why you'd want to freeze your scions. They graft even up to a year later when kept in the dark and around 35F. The main killer is lack of moisture. You have to keep them well sealed. And they need to be treated with a bactericide and refreshed at least once every couple of months. I keep mine wrapped in a moist papertowel that I switch out every couple of months. I've also kept budwood for a long time that way. if you insist on freezing them, it's preferable to use a chest freezer that doesn't have any defrost cycles, otherwise you will just end up freeze drying your scions and rendering them useless. Although you can mitigate that with good freezer bags. Also, make sure the freezer temps aren't below the actual hardiness rating of the specific apple. Just make sure to take the scions out of the freezer and keep them in the refrigerator about 15-20 days before grafting. That will give them more than adequate chill. |
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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| I would agree that drying out is the problem with storing scions in a freezer. I have only had failures I would chalk to scion health when the wood was shriveled, or very moldy, or not green when cut. If you are not seeing one of these three things I would not blame the scion. If you are having mold problems give them a bath in 10% bleach solution before storing in the fridge; if they came moldly also scrub gently with a soft brush. Scott |
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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| I have no experince but have wondered the same myself. How do you think it would work freezing them in water? That should solve the drying out problem. |
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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| Thanks for good ideas. Why freeze? Well, no good reason, just wondering. I like the idea of taking from freezer a few weeks before grafting. And I will use a big freezer bag. (Another change this year, gleaned here, is to cut longer scion - mine used to fit into the small Ziplocks, someone said use the gallon size and longer = more water reserves, etc.) Drying out could be my problem, but the scion seemed OK. I don't have a great feel for that. And my methods are suspect (see the link below). For me my mistakes are sort of free as I have unlimited scion (I help a neighbor on one of the regional pawpaw trials) and unlimited rootstock (wild ones). I get enough takes to call it progress, just looking for things to improve. My fridge is the family one, has apples, ancient leftovers, etc. (The scion are in a separate drawer and sealed in a little box.) Or it could just be something like the day I choose to graft I am a little too early in season (5/8/08 in Iowa), too cool of a day, etc. Interesting idea to freeze in water. I may try a couple. |
Here is a link that might be useful: grafting pawpaw in the Ozarks (some of the pix are apple or pear)
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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Was thinking too that this year I might try freezing in water, half and half, the other half in the fridge and see what works better.
Why....only for some cherries, zone 7, I'm in zone 3, scion wood would have to be a few month in the fridge before they can be grafted, this would spoil too many, apples plums and pear are usually fine keeping longer.
Konrad |
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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Konrad,
Let us know how that works.
I won't be freezing my scionwood - at least not on purpose.
I've had instances, from time to time, when I've had scions freeze in the fridge I had them stored in, and I've felt that that was probably the cause of graft failures in some cases.
A couple years back, a friend over at the Trees Forum conducted an experiment where he froze some white oak acorns - in water - and got zero germination. I'm concerned that freezing in water in the freezer may result in a similar destruction of viable tissue in scionwood, but maybe not. |
RE: Scion storage - is freezing the scion really not good?
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| I've had scions freeze a few times in a regular refridgerator and have had few problems. Our old fridge is in the barn and when the outside temp drops sometimes ice would form inside as the barn is not climate controlled. I don't believe I ever lost more than 5-10%. Now I have a small "dorm fridge" in our house that is used just for scion wood - and I still have 5 to 10% fail. |
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