I would love to see some photo's

Sam

Fruitnut, That's interesting. You don't say what you are doing to control the heat - shade cloth, fans, roll-up sides, AC???

Ditto, pictures would be interesting.
About the nectarines' internal breakdown, I've had the same thing with peaches and wondered if too much water was the cause of it. I have rows of low-lying pop-up sprinkles between by rows of fruit trees and they're so convenient to use I think I may have overwaterd a bit in the summer. Just a theory.
I'm very interested in how you got a colony of bumble bees nested in you greenhouse. Commercial supplier? Or did you manage to entice them with nice living quarters? I've tried the latter with no success.

Yr. whole project really interesting! Sounds like it might work anywhere, so could have orchard in, e.g., Alaska. Would also love to know how you control heat.

I would also really like to see some pictures of your setup.

I control heat with three 36 inch fans and an evaporative cooling system. In winter dew points are low and I can maintain air temp about 10 to 14F below outside temp. Ave winter outside temp 60/30F. Requies shade cloth above trees to do this. This is needed in winter in order to get the required chilling hrs. During chilling I run the heater at 37F because most effective chilling is 37-48F.

In summer without shade cloth can maintain inside temp about like outside. Summer highs ave 85-95F here and dew points ave in 50s, fairly low. I will try shade cloth this summer over at least the nectarines. Probably 40% aluminet, the best looking shade cloth I've seen.

The bumblebees are commercially avaliable. Shipped overnight. Small hive is about $100 and is supposed to last 4-5wks.

Am getting a new computer in March. Need to get a digital camera. But biggest holdup on pics is my lack of ability on uploading.

The greenhouse for fruit would work best in the intermountain west above 4500ft elev. If summer highs are above 90 or dew pts above 60, would be difficult. Choice of crops will have large effect on heating requirement. I have citrus and a short window for chilling so have to maintain temp in 30s in winter. But I never use the heater to warm above 37F, only the sun does that. If one dropped citrus and had a long window for chilling, a cold winter, then I could see having a house where you would heat to no warmer than 10F or even zero. This would greatly reduce heating costs in a cold climate. After bloom started you would have to maintain 34F. If one only grew grapes, you don't need chilling, could allow midwinter temp to fall to 10F, and you might not even have spider mites. These crops can nearly be grown organically. That is nearly immpossible outdoors anywhere.

Last yr I sprayed only four times. Three were for spider mites. Sprayed grapes once for leaf hoppers. But the grapes didn't get spider mites.

The optimum system and greenhouse design will be highly depend on crops chosen and climate.

The Fruitnut

Thank you for such a detailed report! It's vy. helpful to now have an idea of some of the variables involved & under what circumstances such a setup feasible.

What are you using for spider mite control? Systemic?

Kiwinut: There are some very good new miticides for fruit: Acramite, Envidor, and Zeal are three. Hardest thing is to find a place to buy them. I am still on the prowl for Envidor. Settled for Floramite which is a greenhouse formulation of Acrimite that costs twice as much.

All have different modes of action...and resistance management is important. Floramite is very effective...I have found at least 6wks control. And I think it is very safe for people.

The Fruitnut

Fruitnut,

Thank you for posting such a detailed description. Your comments are real inspiration.

I'm at about 750 feet in central Texas. I've been keeping citrus for 3 years. This year, I've got a fig tree sharing the greenhouse with the citrus, just to see what it does.

I've also got about 20 assorted fruit trees out doors. Late freezes have been a problem, though. In 2006, late freezes caused me to get almost zero 'outdoor' fruit. My citrus crop is steadily growing, though.

My general plan involves working towards a minimally heated, 3-6 month greenhouse for 'in the ground' trees.

Mytrees: The thing I like best about the greenhouse is not being at the mercy of the weather. I spent 30 yrs getting knocked around by the freezes, hail, and wind in Amarillo. If I hadn't had such a good job I'd have left sooner.

This morning it was 26F in Alpine. The greenhouse thermometer read 32F. But that 6F makes all the difference. My plums, peaches, apricots, and pluots will be full bloom this coming wk. Sweet cherries the wk after.

Had a fair crop of Clemenules mandrin last fall. That variety ripened in spring in CA. Think my house is too hot or too long season for it. But have about 60 Washington navel oranges in the second season. They are large, sweet, and easy to peel. Also have a Chandler pummelo but it is only second leaf coming up. Hope it blooms this spring but may not because it is too vigorous. The Chandler was my favorite citrus in CA.

You may be able to grow good grapefruit in a greenhouse in central TX. They like lots of heat. That is why they are so good in the valley.

How do you keep your greenhouse from overheating in the summer? Guess I would be thinking of removing the top during the freeze-free season in that area.

I have had spider mites on the citrus. Has that been a problem for you?

Am going to try figs in pots in the greenhouse. They supposedly do very well in pots. Am also going to try some varieties of peach, nectarine, and pluot in pots. This will allow the option of moving them outside for pollination...as there seems to be plenty of honeybees outside even in Febr. Also by moving the nectarines around I may be able to figure out what is going on with them.

Good luck and thank you for the encouragement. Good to know I'm not just talking to myself!

The Fruitnut

Fruitnut,

>The greenhouse thermometer read 32F.

Mine got down to 34 last night. It was 20 degrees outside. I get a 12-15 degree differential between outside and inside with a few strings of Christmas lights on a thermostat. If the temps drop below 20, I cover everything with sheets. Under the sheets, I can get a 30+ degree differential which is plenty.

>My plums, peaches, apricots, and pluots will
>be full bloom this coming wk. Sweet cherries the wk after.

Wow, that sounds great! I've got pomegranates, pears, plums, peaches, apricots, pluots, figs and a cherry, but they are all outside (except for a new potted fig). Of course, none are doing anything. The inside fig might be getting ready to put out some leaves, but really hasn't changed at all over the last week.

>Had a fair crop of Clemenules mandrin last fall.

Wonderful! I have not been able to get any fruit from my clementines. They blossomed, but the fruit failed to set last year. There is lots of baby fruit and blossoms on it right now. Same for my Dancy.

>You may be able to grow good grapefruit in a
>greenhouse in central TX. They like lots of heat.

I've got two 'rio red' grapefruits, and they have been my best producers (20 fruit per year).

I've also got a satsuma, moro orange and sunquat. The sunquat was a good producer 2 years ago, but last year I only got 1 fruit off it. The fruit failed to set.

>How do you keep your greenhouse from
>overheating in the summer?

I take the greenhouse down around April 15th and put it up around Nov 15th. This year, it is 16' x 8'. The biggest cost I incur is replacing the plastic each year.

How much of the year is frost free in Alpine?

>I have had spider mites on the citrus. Has that
>been a problem for you?

No. I've had aphids, but no other problems.

>Am going to try figs in pots in the greenhouse.

What size pots are you thinking about using? My citrus are in 20 gal trash cans, but these are getting difficult to move as the trees get bigger and the plastic ages.

Mark

Mark: Alpine is frost free from about mid April until mid Oct. But medium to low chill fruits bloom in Feb or March so are often ruined by frost. High chill fruit like apples don't bloom until April and even into May. Our summers are cooler and less humid than low elev areas of TX.

I have my potted fruit including blueberries in 15 gal black nursery pots. These last a long time even in full sun. I use a light, well drained potting mix and put aluminum window screen in the bottom. If sat on the soil, plants sometimes root into the underlying soil, not good with blueberries.

Your citrus is well ahead of mine but mine should be blooming in the next month. Mine are held up by the nearly two month chilling cycle needed for some of my stock. Last yr my citrus set very well even though there were no pollinators in the greenhouse.

What variety of pluot do you have? My favorites are Flavor Supreme and Flavor Grenade. But they bloom too early to have any chance outdoors.

The Fruitnut

Fruitnut,

>What variety of pluot do you have?

I have a dapple-dandy and flavor-supreme. Also, I have a flavor-delight aprium. All were planted last year and did not bloom.

We have the late frost problem here. In mid-march, it can warm up to the mid 70s, then fall to the mid 20s over-night. We haven't had an April frost for a decade, but they happen.
Last year, the late frost struck prior to any visible growth, but at an apparently critical growth phase. Even the wild Mexican plums failed to bloom. I'm a bit puzzled by the whole thing.

Do you try to mimic central California temperatures/humidity? If so, how did you come up with this program?

Mark

Mark: I cann't expain your lack of bloom last yr. But am very experienced with spring frost damage after 30 yrs trying to grow fruit in Amarillo. They have frost damage to something in the spring almost every year. When I was there it was rare to have damage before the blossoms began to open. It had to fall to about -10F in Dec-Jan to cause damage to buds not swelling. In Feb when some buds were swelling but not opened, I cann't ever remember damage even when the temp fell to near zero. But once the blossoms began to open we had losses of some kind 9 yrs out of ten. Damaging temp in that period were usually between 10 and 30F.

I had Dapple Dandy in CA. It sets very heavily and I would recommend heavy thinning in the yrs when it sets a heavy crop. I wasn't impressed with it's quality, not sweet, but maybe even heavier thinning would help that. Hopefully you will have better results. Flavor Supreme on the other hand is among the best if not the very best fruit I have ever grown or tasted. Naturally, it is hard to set a crop...always seems to work that way. It is blooming in my greenhouse now and the bumblebees aren't attracted to it. So I am spending an hr a day hand pollinating it.

I model my greenhouse somewhat to follow the chilling and temp found around Fresno CA. This is the stone fruit capitol of CA. But in the same area they have lots of grapes and citrus. So you can grow most fruit there. To me it seems too hot in the summer, daytime temp about like you and a little cooler at night. But about 30 days a yr over 100F. That seems too hot to me for most things and I don't think it is ideal but it works. I'm trying to stay cooler in mid summer.

On the humidity question I try to keep it as low as possible. For most fruit this is best and it reduces disease pressure. In my greenhouse, where it never rains, there has been almost no diseases other than a small amount on overripe or split fruit. This is one of the big pluses of having a house that is covered all yr rather than an open roof for natural ventillation. We get frequent rainshowers in late summer. This alone will ruin much of the CA fruit like grapes, plums, pluots, and nectarines. You will have a hard time with things like Flavor Supreme when it rains.

The Fruitnut

Just found your webpage. The info is very encouraging. We are building our 3rd greenhouse and thought we would try fruit trees. We also have a horrible time with late spring snows and snap cold spells as late as late May. My big concern is keeping the greenhouse cold during the day in winter when the sun is beaming down. Thought we would try blueberries, plums and maybe bush apricots. Our greenhouse is only a little over 10' high, but in Montana fruit trees don't get terrible tall. Some apples thrive outside but we haven't had any large fruit from our honeycrisp apples yet. Planted them in 2009, order full sized, but I think they are dwarf. It has been burning hot here this summer, over 100 degrees many days. Our smaller greenhouse houses vegetable and they love the heat when they are damp.
Any comments would be sooo helpful. Not many people here around Three Forks know anything about greenhouses so your comments are awesome. Thanks so much.