Mrs G. the main ingredient for plants in their establishment is nitrogen, but a lot does depend on what's already in the soil as I'm sure you know.

When trees come into bearing they start putting a lot of potassium in their fruit which gets removed with harvest.

There is not only no single ideal fertilizer for all your trees but not even one that is ideal for all stages of a trees life or for any stage of life in all soils.

The most commonly proscribed is 10-10-10 which I don't love unless I'm sure there isn't already too much P in the soil.

For bearing apple trees commercial formulas here usually have 3 parts K to 2 parts N and a little boron. For peaches, equal parts N and K. The P is usually added at the time of planting

I've known of commercial growers that simply spread out maybe a half cup of urea around the bases of young trees not yet bearing at the first sign of growth. Peaches should get another app about a month later.

Here is the maintenance program Cornell suggests for bearing apple trees that have no deficiencies, just so you know what some commercial growers consider the basic requirements.

Green tip One spray of 2 to 4 pounds copper product per 100 gal (Kocide).

Tight cluster to pink One spray of 3 pounds urea and 1 pound solubar per " ". Apply 20 to 40 lbs actual N per acre to soil.

Petal fall to early cover sprays One spray of Zn-EDTA at label rate at second cover (I guess 3-4 weeks after petal fall) plus one spray of 3-4lb calcium choride/ 100 gallons at third cover (4-6 weeks?) plus two sprays of 15 pounds epson salt/ 100 gal at petal fall and second cover.

Apply 40-60 pounds of K per acre to soil at petal fall.

End of shoot growth to harvest 3-4 sprays of calcium chloride/100 gallon at 14 day intervals for bitter pit susceptible varieties.

After harvest Apply 40-60 lb K/acre of soil.

Every 2-3 years apply appropriate amount of lime determined from soil analysis.

what you dont mention ... and its very important to my mind is... where are your trees???

are they in the middle of the lawn???

is the lawn fert'd???

if so ... you have to start by insuring.. that you DO NOT duplicate ferts ...

e.g. most lawn ferts are high in nitro .... and nitro is one thing you dont want to double up on ...

so you need to start your whole equation ... by letting these peeps.. understand where they are planted ...

and secondly ... have you had a soil test done... to know what is already in your soil ... in your micro garden ...

all these generalities are useless.. unless we know where to start ....

ken

Lots and lots of wood chips. Then you usually don't need fertilizer.

refs for the below link:
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda chalker-scott/Horticultural Myths_files/Literature files/Wood chip references.html

I use a special fertilizer for my roses and for my raised beds and a different fertilizer for all berries. The trees have me 'stumped' no pun intended! I do not water my orchard. I hope this is better info to work with. Many thanks to you all for your input. I will use bits and pieces of it all! I just tired of trial and error, I've had nine years of that. The orchard is finally coming together. Mrs. G

here is a good link:

Yes, through herbivory (your great fruit harvests) you are going to extract some K from the orchard. I guess it is about 200 grams per thousand apples, which is replenished by about 9 lbs of wood ash. Wood ash has a pH of 10.4, and will act as lime. It is not for everyone.

Organically derived N is not accurately revealed in typical acid wash soil tests. There are other limitations.

I've never done leaf analysis. I will when I encounter a problem beyond visual trouble-shooting but I can see how even a serious hobby grower might find such a test interesting and even useful.

For the home grower, all that may be needed is an occasional pH test, if that, especially after a test for the original installation. If trees are growing well and there are no signs of deficiency you can wing it by what the tree shows, mainly if the tree has adequate vigor.

Some chef's make careful measurements and some just add a dash of this or that and taste. With industrial food it is all done by precise measurement.

A home grower can go by whatever methods they find most pleasurable. Some gardeners play with soil and plants partially as an escape from the modern rigors of careful calculation.

P can be supplied judiciously with the purchase of triple super phosphate (0-45-0). It's around $2 per pound, and is compact and tidy to store and it does store well.

The trees don't care what the wording on the bag says...as long as they are fed.
I'm also all-for adding in any free N that comes about like horse, pig, chicken or cow manure or better yet finished compost. If you add in conjunction...just guesstimate and reduce the chemical fert. accordingly. Guesstimate on the low side...organics are nowhere close to chemicals in volume or weight (definitely better though).
The human pee thing is just disgusting to me and simply does not provide the volume of fertilization required imo. I'm not dissing those that are proponents though....just for me...gross.

Appleseed thank you for such an explicit response. However, since trees cannot read I have to do that for them, and I do know that too much nitrogen is not really good for fruit production; growth yes, fruit production and size different story.

I must say, you all have taken time to think this sitch through for me which is why I needed help. Not all help comes from web sites and books, but practical application. What makes sense about the advice I will take, is due to people living in my area, who are familiar with my seasons, humidity, fog and summer heat. I appreciate all of your responses they have all helped. Mrs. G
Mrs. G

I am also an islander btw, not full time, but always on island time! We are all very close friends on the island.
It's a wonderful life!
Many of my friends work on the Great Lakes freighters
The boat whistles always go off when they pass our island.
Waiting for the river to freeze, and Jesse (my dog) and I can walk there.

I'd agree with those who've suggested a soil test, but it might be worth expanding on the types of tests available and what they tell you. The most common (Ag school/extension) tests use a strong acid extraction solution (or the equivalent) which tells you what total amount of the tested nutrients (NPK usually) are in your soil. Those may or may not be available to the plant depending upon how they are bound in the soil and other factors. You can also have a soil test done which uses a much milder acid solution, similar to what plant roots exude (LaMotte is one such extract), which will give you a better idea of what amount of NPK is currently available to the trees.

It isn't that one of these tests is "better" than the other; rather they tell you different things, both of which are important to know. There are also tests for the various micro nutrients (S, B, Mn, etc) which can be done, some of which are important to fruit trees.

Personally, I don't get soil tests done every year, but I do get both types of tests done, so that I have a long and short range view of my soil. The ag school type tests tells me what is ultimately available or lacking, but the LaMotte numbers tell me what the trees will get if I do nothing. Those are the primary numbers I use to determine what needs to be put down for the coming year (plus any long term amendments).

I'd be hesitant to throw down the "rule of thumb" amount of 10-10-10 or Boron without some measure of what is already available in my soil. The risks are that you put down too much N and may be making your trees more susceptible to fire blight or keep them from hardening off in the fall, or push your boron levels into the toxic zone. Excess P and K are more just a waste of money (but too much K can cause broad leaf weed pressure). Available calcium is also important to good fruit production and is not always available (just balancing the pH does not guarantee that you will be getting sufficient Ca necessarily).

I am not suggesting one go test crazy. One can gauge many of these things in other ways, like length of last years's growth for N, etc. But there is a lot more to picking the right fertilizer/supplements for your soils than a simple rule of thumb will cover (even though it may work some or even much of the time).

1. We should know HOW our trees should look, behave and bear
2. We should have a general idea of the type of soil we are growing in. (actually when WE are in the soil, the type of soil is not that important ;) )
3. By knowing #1, we can deal with the specific deficit and
4. We can thereby avoid the nerve-racking anticipatory testing other than and basic PH monitoring.

I think that the dogged pursuit of perfection is the enemy of sanity.

Mike

Farmers end up getting precise directions on how to get maximum yields sending soil and leaf samples to one expert after sending soil to another expert. They often wind up mostly doing what they are told- especially on huge farms. Beyond the money, how much gratification is in that?

Look, smell, touch, taste and try to figure it out yourself. When that fails ask for guidance. We home growers don't need maximum efficiency. There tends to be too much fruit even without that.

I was beginning to worry that my two and three year olds (my trees) were going to report me to child protective services for neglect.

Mike

Mrs.G...what I meant when I said "trees cannot read what's written on the bag" was that they are looking for nutrients and don't care whether those nutrients came from lawn fertilizer or tree-tone or whatever. Starks sells fruit tree fertilizer with an N number of I think around 46 or so.
That's cool and everything, but the cost is high...very high and it derives it's N, P and K in the same conventional ways that lawn fertilizer does. When applied at the correct rate the tree doesn't care whether those nutrients were supplied by lawn fertilizer with perhaps some added P or stark's fruit tree fertilizer at an exponentially higher cost...same goes for tree-tone (though I do think it is a good, although pricey product).

I wasn't at all clear in my wording, but that's what I meant.

I do think an area of great importance (perhaps the greatest importance) is the N release rate. Every fertilizer I've ever used (I've used a lot since I'm a recovering over-fertilizer) the N is released fairly quickly and the P and K much, much later. 10-10-10 (the kind I've always had over the last 30 years) is always the same and is especially bad for this. You can look in it and see 3 different "granules"...a month later the N granules are totally gone and the P and K look the same as the day you broadcast them. I'm sure all of you have witnessed this...if not do an experimient. Put two tablespoons of any balanced fertilizer out in an open depression and just watch the decomposition rate.
This is one area where I think manures, composts and other organics have a big advantage over chemical fertilizers. Overall slower release rate, lower concentrations and I'm guessing (edumacted guess lol) that the delivery is somewhat, if not a lot more balanced.