TWM,

The Zaiger plumxcherryxapricot looks real nice. I would love to have one for my hybrids collection.

Tony

Konrad,
What does the Manor taste like? Does it have any cherry flavor? To tell the truth, I have been growing many varieties of plums and cherries for several years, but they have mostly been a failure--sizable trees, but practically no fruit. Our soil is mostly sand, so I guess I will up the fertilizer this year. Northwoodswis

Tony, that hybrid is actually a peach x apricot x plum x cherry hybrid, according to Los Angeles Times Article.

Here is a pic of the plum x cherry x apricot hybrid that I saw on Bareroot fruit trees post:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111279274345519416431/ZaigersWeeklyFruitTasting2013?authkey=Gv1sRgCPvpnaqCpMngtQE#5899132010066703330

That's a tasty looking fruit!!!

Tony

I own a little comparative copy of a hybrid Myrobolan cherry, wt a very sweet pleasant taste.

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alcedo,
What's its parentage? Myrobalan plum x what?

Northwoodswis
They need to be fully ripe for flavor, they definitely can have more, taste like a plum but,..a healthy fruit and perfect for processing. I froze some whole in the freezer.

Manor on the left

Konrad,
Thanks for the reply. I wasn't able to find anywhere that sells Manor in the U.S., so I guess it is a moot point.
Northwoodswis

St. Lawrence Nurseries has some, see below, [going out of business] most of these plums are very similar, the Sapalta would be a good Joice I think,..got a tiny plant.

Compass
Yellow-red fruit with sweet, juicy yellow flesh, sour skin.
Ripens in late August. Good for jams and sauces.

Sapalta
Ripening with Compass or slightly earlier, this fruit is dark
purple inside and out. It has juicy sweet flesh, sour skin, and is
nearly freestone.

Deep Purple
Limited supply �" order before March 1.
Deep purple skin and flesh. Large size, over 1 inch, meaty with small pit. Sweet, pleasant flavor. Ripens mid-August. Prostrate growth habit, but may be trained upright for a more tree-like shape.

Here is a link that might be useful: St. Lawrence Nurseries

Here is the parentage of Black Amber plum and Manor plum:

BLACKAMBER-Early season. Friar x Queen Rosa. A particularly large plum, with very firm flesh. The skin is black, and the flesh is, as it's name suggests, amber. In climates with less heat, it is often acidic at maturity. It is not suited to humid climates either, as it is suceptible to bacterial diseases. The pit is small. B.A. is an important commercial cultivar in Western USA. Pollenizer is "Santa Rosa'. US, N.

MANOR -prunus besseyi x prunus sp. Early season (for colder climates). The small plums are dark, almost black, and is good eating quality. A bushy Prunus. US

This is what I found...

Nadia’ is a new interspecific hybrid resulting from a controlled cross of ‘Black Amber’ plum (not patented) and ‘Supreme’ cherry (not patented). The inventor hand pollinated a limb of a ‘Black Amber’ plum tree located in his commercial orchard at Shepparton, Victoria, New South Wales, Australia, with pollen from ‘Supreme’ cherry. After pollination, the limb was bagged to prevent further pollination. Two hundred seeds were collected from fruit set on the selected branch, and planted in pots for observation. Of the two hundred seeds planted, only 5 produced seedlings. The five seedlings were grown on until large enough to harvest budwood for further propagations. The budwood was top worked by grafting onto 20 plum rootstock trees for evaluation. It was from these topworked trees that ‘Nadia’ was selected. Since the initial selection, four generations of asexual propagation have been carried out. It has been observed that the traits identifed in the original selection have been carried forward and remain stable and true to type in the asexually propagated trees of ‘Nadia

Yes that is the description from the patent info. It looks good, other institutions (East Malling) want to experiment with it. It looks like a good one. It appears more cherry characteristics are in this one versus other crosses. Bottom line is taste and from all reports it is fantastic, but a lot of that is hype. Once grown out we shall see. It didn't take long to sell worldwide and that too is a good sign it's a keeper.

I'm too, planning cross a cherry with a plum, I will use the Bing cherry as a seed parent, and either Santa Rosa or Burgundy plum as the pollent parent.

I think the crossing is the easiest, the worst part of it is the growing out seeds, [if they grow at all?] I got a bunch of plum seedlings, [open pollinated] awaiting to, hopefully get a decant plum.

My parents grew the cherry x plum hybrids of prunus besseyi when I was in grade school. Gurneys used to sell them. In those days grapes and cherry plums etc. required no spraying at all for them. The cherry plum that they grew here made western sand cherries seem sweet. They were gorgeous in appearance and large but not usable. As kids we tried to eat them and could not. The cows, horse, pigs, chickens, wild animals etc would not eat them. The rabbits did not girdle those cherry plums with no protection. Those old cherry plum varieties disappeared from the USA for a good reason. The pits were sterile as well. I'm glad to hear they have new and improved varieties. I grow myrobalan cherry plums now and the taste is excellent but the fruit is small. They are around 15 ' high and very hardy.

This post was edited by ClarkinKS on Wed, Jan 14, 15 at 22:16

Myrobian sounds cool, all I found was seeds for sale, so must not be sterile. And for the record, Nadia is a sweet cherry cross, not a sand cherry.

Quoting Konrad,

"I think the crossing is the easiest, the worst part of it is the growing out seeds, [if they grow at all?] I got a bunch of plum seedlings, [open pollinated] awaiting to, hopefully get a decant plum."

True.

As for my Mariposa plum seeds, I have a 90% germination rate; 70% for Santa Rosa plum, 2% germination rate for my Satsuma plums, and about 50% germination rate for cherries, out of that 50%, I have 0% survival rate.

Growing tomatoes and peppers from seed really helped me out. I already conquered growing medium, lighting, watering, damping off, heat, etc. The problem is numbers for me. Nadia was one out of a thousand offspring. They got lucky, the numbers are against you coming up with something really worthwhile. But I myself will still try, but realize it may be years if not decades before anything decent even comes about.
Why I decided to cross raspberries, I can get results in one year and try again. Chances of getting what i want are a lot better.

Oh, I forgot to mention that Raintree nursery is also releasing another plum hybrid. It is a cross
between a western sandcherry (prunus besseyi) and a nanking cherry (prunus tomentosa). It is located under the cherry plums section.

Drew,
If you want some plants try Sandusky nursery

Here is a link that might be useful: Cherry plum plants

>>Nadia was one out of a thousand offspring.ONLY two hundred seeds were planted, only 5 produced seedlings!

ONLY two hundred seeds were planted, only 5 produced seedlings!

Wow! Well I guess if it grows, you might have something good!
I want to do a couple things and just for fun. Zaiger released Dapple Supreme a FS and DD cross. I have both of those so want to grow my own Dapple Supreme.
I also have Indian Free peach, it is not self fertile, and want to grow out some seeds for fun as all will be unique. I'm going to try and cross it with a Spice Zee nectaplum. Again just for fun. I will make those crosses this summer.

With blackberries I would like to make a hardy blackberry with large fruit, that is thornless, and has a complex flavor.
I plan to make multiple crosses to try and achieve this.
I'm going to use a local wild that has medium fruit, but large 7 foot canes, that survived the double digit negative temps last winter. They fruited like crazy! No damage from 3 nights where temps were at least -10F. All of my canes died! The crowns made it, but the canes all died! Taste is not that good, OK, but I hope to bring taste into this wild blackberry.
Konrad do you grow any blackberries? Do you have any wild ones near you? If so seed from the wilds would greatly be appreciated. I may need your help to grow out some of the results. But I'm years ahead of myself! You know if I could make a great tasting super hardy blackberry, I could probably retire if I patented it! I have talked to a few breeders and nobody is doing this. If people could grow these farther north, and produce excellent tasting fruit demand would be threw the roof! Even if I fail it is worth trying.
I found out from one breeder that the thornless trait is recessive, so I would have to make a 2nd cross to obtain that trait, and be super lucky I get two recessives.
Hardiness can be determined by those that survive my winters unprotected. My pollination technique must be perfect too, practicing that now. I'm growing out some raspberry crosses I made for practice.
I will try the first cross this spring. Or at least collect wild pollen.It can be frozen for later use.

Drew,

Spice zee nectaplum parentage is 50% nectarine, 37.50% peach, and 12.50% plum. So if you cross SZ nectaplum with a Indian peach, you will get: 68.75% peach, 25% nectarine, and 6.50% plum.

This Spring I will cross my peacharine (50% peach, 50% nectarine) with my F1 Moorpark apricot, and the result will be 50% apricot, 25% peach, and 25% nectarine.

Try crossing a raspberry with a strawberry; Luther Burbank crossed them but he got a sterile hybrid.

I was recently reading about thornless traits in blackberries. There was a dominate thornless gene also found from a different source but, if I recall correctly, the recessive trait was more useful in breeding because the smallest seedlings could be identified as to if they carried it or not (hairs or fuzz on the cotyledons.. something like that). The dominant trait plants had to be grown out to a certain height before one could tell. There may have been other factors on why the recessive trait was the useful one but I'd have to find where I read that. I think one difference was also in that one of the genetic types still had small thorns on the bases of the plants.. maybe that was the dominant type.. not sure.

There may have been other factors on why the recessive trait was the useful

One for me is since it is recessive, if crossing a thornless, it must have 2 recessives, so all offspring will have one recessive gene. So all crosses will carry one gene, you know that without any testing.
What i was thinking of donig is
Triple Crown x Wild blackberry = Cross 1
Columbia Star x Wild blackberry = Cross 2
Cross 1 x Cross 2 = F2

1/2 of f2 should be thornless, and hopefully hardy.

Cross 1 and 2 will all have one recessive so I can look for the biggest and best tasting fruit and use those. Maybe 20 plants grown out of each cross.
I can let the cold winters cull any out that are not hardy.
This will probably take a decade.
I have to wait to the 2nd year get fruit to test.

Weatherman thanks for the breakdown. That cross is just for fun to grow a unique peach nobody else has. No matter what if I get fruit it crossed wth something as Indian Free is not self fertile. Same with the pluot.

I think an actual F2 might be "selfed" progeny of an F1 You might be talking about making a 4-way cross. In any case though, with the recessive thornless genes an advantage was being able to select those carrying the genes (double recessives) while they are still tiny and in the cotyledon stage. I found the link for that thornless blackberry breeding information:

https://msfruitextension.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/why-are-some-blackberries-thornless-and-some-thorny/

Steve

Yes, you're right about the terminology. Thanks for the info! I'll check it out!

The article was interesting turns out I have all three types of thornless genes in various cultivars I have. Although some conclusions are wrong in the article. The thornless trait Lincoln-Logan as it is called, is useful and has been used in the recent release Columbia Star. So my proposed cross will not work really as Triple Crown and Columbia Star have different thornless genes. Columbia Star has at least 25 cultivars in it's lineage. It is a very complex cross.
It's interesting for sure. It's going to be hard to get what i want and I think I'm going to lower my expectations and just try to make either Columbia Star, Triple Crown, or Newberry more hardy. And forget about thornless gene and the upright gene. I don't have to decide anytime soon, I'm still working on technique.

On a completely different track I'm grafting about 5 peaches and 5 plums unto my trees. I'm rather excited about that. Again peaches are about as hard as it gets to graft. So here again I should lower expectations and hope I can get 1/2 to take. One thing this is a hell of a lot of fun!!

One of the crosses I did last year was a yellow raspberry with a red, in an attempt to create an orange raspberry (yellow + red = orange). Currently the seeds from the cross are stratifying. I used Anne and Prelude. Both excellent cultivars.

One of the obstacles to developing a new cultivar is getting clearance of a patented cultivar used in the lineage by the patent owner. It turns out with Columbia star owned by the USDA is that recognition of it's use be mentioned and that is it! This is great news for me! I could patent a new cultivar with no problem.

More great news, Everyone!
Dave Wilson Nursery is releasing another pluerry for the 2016 season, this one is called " candy heart." It looks like flavor heart pluot,; it's bigger than sweet treat pluerry and it wil. be offered on myro 29c

I decided to add another Nadia cherry plum to my order, so my entire order is two nadias, plus a four-in-one pluot, a bagel flat peach, one anking cherry, one beach plum seedling, one st julien rootstock, one cranberry, one aronia, and one tri-lite peach-plum---the gradfather of sweet treat pluerry.

I asked Raintree Nursery about Nadia's chilling hours and pollination requirements via email and here's what they replied;

"Nadia is guesstimated to need 4-500 hours of chill; is pollenized by
an Asian plum, and wants full sun, regular watering, etc. (your typical fruit tree)."

I just found out,a local nursery carries Nadia.I may cancel my Raintree order. Brady

That's awesome! Not one good local nursery for trees here.

I missed this thread earlier. Nadia sounds better than Sweet Treat pluerry. Raintree still has them so I ordered one.

Scott

It does look good, so Scott, Bob, Weatherman, fruitnut, and I ordered at least one. The weatherman was really on top of this one mentioning it about 2 years ago as he often looks for new patents. He has emailed me about unannounced cultivars before as they show up as patents long before being announced.

I'm tempted...i've got about 10 trees coming already... I do wonder if it has grafting potential...as in will it work with both sweet cherries and peaches/plums/etc....interstem?

Someone brought something just like this to a family reunion last year. I saw them on the table and thought plums, picked one up and inspected it and though no, cherry, ginormous cherry! Then I ate one and thought definitely cherry, only way to big to be a cherry. The only thing I'm certain of is that they were delicious and I wanted to eat the whole bag... And that I'm buying one from Raintree right now.

Thanks for the post Weatherman!

Well, I just ordered one also. I doubt it will be adapted to SE Texas but if Scott can try it I guess I can to. I will pot mine up so at least it will not have to deal with my wet soil.

I think I found another picture (it was all Korean, but translation says Nadia)

Okay,I picked up a Nadia.They were good size,about eight feet tall,with a fair amount of branches.I cut out the middle and kept four which were shortened about a third.I am wondering if more length should come off of them? Brady

Wow you guys are real lucky! Yes, I a’m jealous . For me it will be
some time before Nadia is available Please keep posting.

alcedo

I remember when Nadia's patent was first published in 2009, I got so excited to see the first plum x cherry hybrid been patented and possibly been released to the U. S market. But when I saw it was only available in Australia, I got disappointed. Nevertheless, I still followed the news articles about this hybrid. And then, this year: Surprise! Raintree Nursery had them on sale! As soon I saw it on Raintree's page, I ordered one, followed by another one two weeks later.

Sound is so interesting, I just got one from Sky nursery about 6 FT tall and plant it.

Could any one tell what difference between cherry- plum and pluerry? please thank you. Why Nadia called cherry plum and Candy heart called pluerry?

Pluerry is a copyrighted name and only Zaiger bred trees can use it. Nadia is from Australia and is not associated with Zaiger. The Pluerry also has a lower percentage of cherry than Nadia. Nadia has 50% cherry. I'm not sure of the percentage in the Pluerries available? It is less than 50% though.

Thank you so much Drew, So I can try to plant Candy heart pluerry in Seattle but why it need to be with 2 different plant, Pollenized by Sweet Treat Pluerry and Burgundy Plum, Can it pollenized wiht normal Japanese plum as well? Thank you for more information if any one can helps.

I found this information from my local nursery : An Aprium® is a ¾ apricot ¼ plum cross that is more similar to its apricot parent; a Pluot® is ¾ plum, ¼ apricot; a Pluerry® is a complex hybrid with plum, cherry, apricot, and peach in its parentage, but mostly plum and cherry. A plum-cherry is a straight cross between the two species.

Yes good definitions, it is possible any Japanese plum can be used for cross pollination. Most will probably work.