I think the only ones they offer that would be dependably cold hardy for me are opal, mt royal, and possibly green gage.
Unfortunately the opal is on pumiselect and I don't think I want a dwarfing rootstock(...can you plant plums deep to get self rooting?)
And I believe green gage is only partially self fertile?

Any other suggestions, or relevant info in terms of cultural issues to be aware?

Good luck with the plums!

Ed

My Mt. Royal hasn't fruited yet, but I bought some at the farmers market and am very pleased with the flavor.

No disease issues yet, though all the wild plums around have black knot, so I'm sure I'll see it someday.

fruitmaven,
not sure why deep planting the Mt. Royal, yes, naturally dwarfing on it's own root, do you want a small tree?
Some trees here are grown on it's own root but our harsh climate makes it a very very slow grower, grafted to a vigorous rootstock can make it a faster growing tree.

Some pictures in link

Mt Royal is a good choice, hardy, mid season. Make sure you thin it as it overbears. Think about Ersinger (early), Long John (mid-late, does well here), Early Laxton (early orange-yellow spotted), Seneca (mid, large and good). We also fruit Rosey Gage (but the trees are tiny), Oullins, Opal and a bunch of older varieties you cannot get from nurseries.

The Mirabelles need heat to ripen, so if you want a Mirabelle I would suggest you get a rootstock and pick up an American Mirabelle scion (much earlier than Nancy or De-Metz) when you come over for the peach scions

All get Black Knot and Brown rot

Raintree has a good selection if you like their rootstock.

If you are going to plant deep, insure your raised beds are high enough to keep the roots from suffocating before more can grow out of the trunk, it can really set them back or kill them.

We used to have a Green Gage, but even with spraying it was a brown rot magnet and cracks like crazy, hard to get a decent amount of fruit off of it in this humid climate.

Eric

Quite a few years ago I wanted to try plums and started mostly with Japanese type. I found out they bloom too early for my climate and switched to Euro plums.

The Euros have just started fruiting in the last few years. So far, I'm very pleased with the Euros. They are mostly freestone and the skin isn't quite as tart.

I've not tried Opal or Mt. Royal, but do have Green Gage. It is indeed a very good quality plum. It does ripen later in the season, so don't know if that will be a problem for your locale.

I don't have black knot on my plums but generally spray once early with chlorothalonil. I also tank mix a fungicide for scab, when spraying for plum curc., which probably also helps to control black knot.

As Plumhill indicated, I think you'd be fine to bury the graft below grade (for winter protection) as long as you had decent drainage, or mounds.

I've buried all my plum grafts below grade. They've done fine, but I never looked to see if the plum scion portion has rooted out (need to do that).

Black knot and brown rot are among my biggest concerns...especially as I continue to attempt organic methods.
I know the euro plums are prone to both, but have gathered that some varieties are especially so. As Eric referenced for green gage(brown rot) and I know I have seen harvest man reference some black knot "problem child" although I can't remember which at the moment

Eric, I was hoping you would chime in as your experience regionally is particularly useful. And it has me thinking about just grafting in varieties from you place...either in addition to or in place of the peach I was going to come cut this summer. Thanks again.

I had been leaning toward opal, people speak well of it, very hardy and fully self fertile. my question regarding planting deep was in an interest of self rooting to add vigor to the tree (since they only have it on pumiselect)
Now I am thinking my royal may be a good place to start.

I suppose what I really should do is get into the Burlington farmers market this summer (whereeric/plum hill sells) and try a bunch of these guys before committing.....

There is no chemical solution for black knot so being organic won't be an issue there- you just have to cut it out. Methely is the typhoid Mary of whom you speak.

If brown rot becomes an issue, maybe you will get over your need to avoid useful synthetic chemicals in fruit production- or you can try sulfur.

I would think that up there brown rot and BK would be less a problem given your greater quantity of low humidity days. Love that Canadian air.

You can always start with Mt. Royal and experiment with grafts.

I have already ordered Castleton for this spring.

Opal is much tastier and earlier and is also very productive, but we have had crops on Mt Royal when the Opal failed to produce. Ersinger us another good choice.

I do not know how much space you have, Mt Royal trees are about 10' wide, Opals are much larger on Myro. The good thing about dwarfing rootstock is you can put in more trees in the same amount of space. If you want to multi graft on the same tree, insure the types have the same vigor, or one of the grafts will take over. You should make sure your rootstock is also hardy enough

Here is my list of Europeans with productivity taste (mine) and hardiness. The ones not filled in don't have enough data to make a decision. We have not had a test winter (< 20 below) for a number of years so the hardiness numbers are bud, not tree (as in dead).

Eric

While it's true black knot must be cut out, chemical controls do help prevent the disease (or further spread of it) as I'm sure Hman is aware.

Either way I understand Rob you aren't interested in chemical controls. If you do decide you need a preventative, copper is supposed to be somewhat efficacious as an organic choice.

Plumhill,

Thanks for that chart. Very informative. Have you seen any problems of precocity in Long John? Hman has mentioned a significant delay of fruiting in the Long John trees he's managed. Have you seen that in your orchard?

Thank you very much for the chart.

Plum is my favorite fruit but to me, it seems to be the most problematic fruit tree!!!

Do you have much problem with black knot on all your plums, please? Which variety is the most resistant one for you?

Your area is not far from mine. What grows well in your area has a good chance to do well in mine. Thanks.

Mrs. G,

My Euros are a little slower too. They take 3-4 years to start producing. Hman has mentioned Long John can take 10 years to start producing.

Olpea, it is amazing that Euro plums to take so long to produce. In year three I had blossoms but all of the fruit dropped. In year four I had eight plums. Last summer I finally had in the hundreds from one tree. Yikes! Mrs. G

Olpea - thanks for reminding me of how long it takes for Long John to produce. 10 years is too long for me esp. I don't have much space to spare.

Rating plum flavor by numbers without a description of qualities is very helpful but only gets you so far. I find that the flesh of many types of prune plums is similar if fruit holds onto the tree long enough for the flesh to turn amber.

I don't think most people could differentiate between the pulp of Castleton, Valor, Seneca or Empress if it was compared at similar ripeness.

I think Castleton is probably rated lower on this chart because it is a smaller plum and the extra skin affects the eating experience. Stanley drops from the tree before it gets to peak ripeness. Mt Royal is more astringent, I think, and that's what takes from its flavor.

Some plums are less tasty because of higher astringency, which tends to make the preserves more distinctive. If you want preserves, there is no better plum for this purpose that I've tried (and I haven't grown all those on the Plumhill list) then the Damson plum.

Damson preserves are tangier and a more beautiful color (more reddish purple than brownish purple) than preserves made with sweeter, less astringent plums. It has proven to be a very reliable and heavy producer for us that we don't bother to thin. It looks ripe at least a month before it achieves highest sweetness and softens a bit.

Castleton got a lower rating because it is so hard to tell when they are ripe, they are still hard (they are not very good when soft), ripen somewhat unevenly so you always get some not quite ripe fruit in the pick. When perfectly ripe they are quite good, very sweet.

Mt Royal does not drop (in fact it is hard to pick when fully ripe without breaking some stems off) so can be left on until fully ripe but you have to taste them to tell when that is.

In 2011 we have an explosion of black knot due to 12 weeks or so of record rains and flooding. I cut out hundreds of knots, now 2 years later it is mostly cleaned up so cutting out does work.

I find plums are easier to grow than apples, peaches or cherries, take less spray (apples are the worst) and are tolerant of soil and climatic conditions which would kill other fruit trees. The only easier one I can think of are pears. Brown rot was the only real issue, but now we have SWD and Stink bugs to deal with which I will start another post on.

In my yard, ranking from easiest to more difficult are apple, pear (Asian), pear (Euro), cherries (sour), cherries (sweet) and peach.

I only have Satsuma and Shiro plum. One Satsuma suffered a mysterious death (graft incompatible?). The other got canker badly on a few areas of its small trunk. I may need to remove the whole tree. So far, even J. plum does not look too good.

Plumhill, I hear what you are saying some plums aren't very good soft. For most plums I prefer to pick them slightly (emphasize slightly) firm. They get too mushy (yucky) for my tastes if left on the tree too long. Interestingly, I don't mind peaches really soft.

It does sound like Long John may be picky about pollination. My Euro plums are more unpredictable at the house (where I've only got 4 varieties left). Sometimes a tree will have a nice bloom with hardly any fruit, other times it will be loaded.

After this spring, I should have about 15 varieties out at the farm. Perhaps pollination will be more consistent there.

Castleton won my heart by being the most reliable producer of high quality prune plums of any I grow. Victoria, Damson and possibly Mt. Royal are equal in this regard, but not nearly so good for fresh eating.

In Z4 your pest pressure must be completely different. Here E-plums are particularly attractive to plum curculio and often suffer from brown rot. J plums are easier here, but I've heard of the opposite being true in the mid-west.

Stanley seem less susceptible to disease and insects compared to other E plums.

Peaches are the easiest to grow in my locale (if grown in a raised planting). Euro plums grow much slower (so fill in their space slower) take an extra year to start bearing, and are harder to get established. Grasshoppers love to defoliate young Euro plum trees (as do deer).

Peaches grow like weeds and the foliage is bullet proof (as far as deer and leaf eating insects). The fuzz on the fruit also makes it less susc. to insects.

Japanese type plums were easier to grow than Euros for me (but not as easy as peaches) mainly because they have more vigor. Unfortunately they bloom too early here.

Just goes to show how different fruit growing can be in different regions.

Italian tends to be a light cropper in the northeast (Cornell agrees, see link), and the fruit are pretty small, especially considering their light cropping, but it is a nice tasting fruit with a special flavor. It seems to suffer less from black knot than most plums so that is a pretty strong positive in itself here.

The man who posted about the difficulty in growing J.plums compared to E plums lived near Chicago as I recall. He used to be a frequent poster here who grew a lot of Macintosh apples for cider.

The link should bring you to a page with descriptions of a wide range of plums.

They say Castleton is often picked before it is ripe, which coincides with Plum's experience.

I guess the take away is that no advice is universal and given the variables of site, growing techniques and palate you must take it all with a grain of salt.

H-man,
I enjoy hearing comments/suggestions from others. I take them into considerations. In the end, it's I who decide what to do with those suggestions.

Always appreciate everyone's input, contradictory or not.

I re-read your chart. Empress got the highest marks in all 3 catagories. How come no one talk about it?

Are there any downside on Empress that you could share with us, please? Thank you.

Eric

Eric

Here's one that about 15' tall (we have three) and the ice never bothers it.

From Lavender's Garden

Here are the other two in the summer...the one on the right is at least 20' tall. The HUGE poplar next to it makes it seem smaller :)

From Lavender's Garden

How did you obtain your Great Yellow? I'm not finding any information for sources on the web. I'd like to add that to my small collection (Stanley, NY9,Imperial Epineuse, Empress, and Pearl)

I really appreciate the table you posted. One thing that could make it better would be to list relative ripening timing.

While my E plum experience is shallow, I'm not sure I concur with the low marks for Stanley by Eric and Hman. Perhaps it simply favors the hot dry summer climate in UT, but the fruit has been outstanding for me.

We are not saying Stanley's are bad, just that others are better. Have you fruited the Empress or Imperial Epineuse yet? I find they have more flavor than Stanley's.

>>the hardiness numbers are not zone numbers but relative hardiness. 5 is the highest (as in had the least amount of bud loss), 1 the lowest<<

So it's the other way around, if I understand correctly, ..the higher the better, do you think all 5 and perhaps 4 would do fine for me,..since Mirabelle de Nancy, [in your list zone 2] I can grow pretty good, some freeze back, fruiting buds seems pretty tough.

What about freeze back, are you getting any?

Kometa, extremely delicious, juicy
http://kuvaton.com/k/yYGT.jpg

Podarok, Vilmitar, Reine Claude, Jubileum
Very tasty plate ¨

(scions wood available/swap)

Adrian