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Good spray program for apples

Posted by johnthecook none (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 29, 12 at 8:48

hello. I have tried to figure out a good spray program for my apples. I have looked for past posts but never seem to get the full spray program for the year.I have dormant oil,triazicide, and immunox. Could someone just list in what order how they use these sprays during the spray season.I live on Cape Cod and have 17 apple trees two to three years old. I also have tried bagging my apples but can't see doing this when my trees really start producing.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

johnthecook:

I am not familiar with using triazide so perhaps you should read the label and see if it has directions for fruits. I use Imidan and Captan.

MY spray schedule:

mid-late April.....dormant oil prior to leafout
once temps over 50 degrees.
green-tip..........leaves out 1/8"-spray fungicide
tight cluster......flower buds tight-spray fingicide
bloom..............No spray. Harms the bees
petal fall.........spray insecticide and fungicide
10 days later......spray again fungicide + insecticide
10 days later......spray again fungicide + insecticide

Starting Mid-June I switch to a summer schedule and
spray every 12-14 days until late August. I stop
sooner on apples that ripen earlier than sept 20th.
How often depends on rain at this time. If no rain,
wait 14 days between spraying. IF lots of rain, spray
after 10 days from last spray. Light rain-make it 12-
14 days between sprayings.

For my neck of the woods, plum curculio season runs
from petal fall to about June 20th. Maggot is usually
at its peak early-mid august. Coddling moth has two
generations here so normally the first damage shows up
early July on unsprayed apples. 2nd generation is
later in the season.

Of course, I want PERFECT apples and have a commercial
orchard background. You can easily get by with a lot
less spraying and hit just the key periods of petal-
fall to July 1st and then again last week July-mid
August and still get a decent crop.

It depends on your tolerance for damage on apples. I
am not as concerned on scab as I cook with a lot of my
apples anyway. Scb is usually cosmetic. The flesh
will be fine.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

1st; I am FAR from an expert. I have approx. a dozen trees. However, I did a bunch of research and did the following last year with excellent results. I literally didn't find a single apple with fungus or bugs in 2011 which was a dramatic improvement from the previous year when mostly all I got were horse treats.

Note also many of my apples were scarred from an early summer hailstorm which made them more than average vulnerable to pests.

Dormant oil - late winter
Immunox - shortly after green tip
Triazicide spray 1 - shortly after petal fall
Triazicide spray 2 - approx. 4 weeks after 1st application.

as you can see this is probably pretty close to what you are already doing.

for me in central MN this was very successful in a year that was much wetter than normal.

I will be adding a spray of BT this years to kill off the stinking eastern tent caterpillars which I have battled for years.

my 2 cents


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RE: Good spray program for apples

That sounds about what I have read on this forum. I used the bonide fruit tree spray last couple of years. It just didn't seem to keep the trees very healthy. Thanks!


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Hi Spartan-Apple,I too use Imidan & Captan. I was wondering how you break-down the amount of chemicals per gallon? I use a 14 gal. sprayer. I also use Streptomycin for FireBlight.Can you tell me the amount of chem. per gal. Thanks, Gala Gala


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Low Spray Schedule for Home Orchards in the Northeast

Here's my spray schedule for the scores of orchards I manage around SE NY adapted for home owners managing a few fruit trees. It has functioned well for me for over 2 decades, although J. Beetles and brown rot of stone fruit increases the number of sprays and necessary pesticides some years some sites. I have substituted the insecticide I use with Spectracide's Triazide which I'm confident to do because at most of the orchards I manage I now use a similar pyrethroid product with good success. Time of spray is based on apple bloom as that is the predominant fruit here but I generally get away with spraying all trees at the time I spray apples.

Please note that pesticide labels must be read before their use and my recommendations do not override the rules on the label. The label is the law. This document only communicates what has worked for me and your results may vary depending on local pest pressure, which may require a different spray schedule.

Dormant oil (this is optional if there were no mites or scale issues the previous season, which is usually the case in home orchards). Do oil spray somewhere between the point where emerging shoots are 1/2" and the flower clusters begin to show a lot of pink. Mix Immunox (myclobutinol) at highest legal rate (listed on label for controlling scab and cedar apple rust on apple trees) with 1 to 2% oil. If it's closer to pink use 1%.
Don't spray again until petal fall when petals have mostly gone from latest flowering varieties and bees have lost interest. Then spray Triazide (Spectracide Once and Done) + Immunox mixed together at highest legal rates. Repeat once in 10 to 14 days.
Where I manage orchards, the space between earliest flowering Japanese plums and latest flowering apples is only 2 weeks or so which usually allows me to wait until the latest flowering trees are ready to begin spraying anything. Plum curculio seems to time its appearance conveniently to the rhythm of the last flowering apple varieties. This may not be true where you are.
If plums or peaches need oil they may need application before apples. I�ve only had mites on European plums here and never need oil for other stone fruit.

All this is based on plum curculio being your primary insect problem which is the case most areas east of the Mis. River. These sprays will also absolutely control scab, CAR and Mildew as well as most of the crop fatal insects. Apple fly maggot is an exception, but I haven't had much of a problem with this pest in the orchards I manage. This pest can be controlled with a lot of fake apples smeared with tangle trap.

If you don't want to use synthetic chemicals try 4 applications of Surround about a week apart starting at petal fall. You may need to start on earlier flowering varieties as soon as they drop petals because Surround is a repellent and can�t kill eggs after they�ve been inserted into the fruit.

Stone fruit may require the addition of an application or 2 of Indar (Monterey Fungus Fighter is closest available chemical for home owners) starting 4 weeks before first peaches ripen. Apricots must be sprayed sooner if they are scab susceptible with same compound.

Because I manage so many orchards so far apart I have to resort to a spray schedule that is based on expectations rather than actual monitoring. You may be able to reduce insecticide sprays with monitoring but PC can enter an orchard over night and if your insecticide lacks kick-back (as is the case with Triazide), do a lot of damage in a couple of days.
Other problems may occur later in the season and you will in time learn to monitor and react to the pitfalls.
Good luck, Alan Haigh- The Home Orchard Co.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

I saved this on my computer. I like to be able to mix the two together saves me time out in the garden. I used this the past year and got alot of healthy apples. Now I need to figure out Collar rot, it seems to be what two of my apple trees have. Thanks!


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Hi H-man,

Per your statement "Stone fruit may require the addition of an application or 2 of Indar (Monterey Fungus Fighter is closest available chemical for home owners) starting 4 weeks before first peaches ripen."

My peaches got bad scab this year. If I need two sprays of MFF, should I start the first spray sooner than 4 weeks before first peaches ripen? How soon?

Thank you very much.
"


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RE: Good spray program for apples

For scab you'll need something like chlorothalinil because Indar isn't available in small packaging. It needs to be applied maybe 2 to 4 weeks after petal fall. As long as you spray before it is apparent you will beat it so you may want to experiment to find optimum time for least spray.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Fri, Jan 4, 13 at 11:13

Mamuang,

Peach scab must be treated sooner than preharvest. As Hman alludes, chlorothalonil is very effective against peach scab. One disadvantage is that its not labeled after shuck-split, which occurs about 10 days after petal fall. If your scab pressure is light, a chlorothalonil spray at shuck spit may suffice. If it's heavy you may have to do some additional summer sprays. Another broad spectrum fungicide like Captan will control scab during summer. Captan also has efficacy against brown rot.

Monterey Fungi Fighter may work for you but is not as effective against scab as broad spectrum fungicides like captan and chlorothalonil.

Sometimes peach scab and bacterial spot are hard to distinguish from one another. They look almost identical on the fruit. However, peach scab rarely affects the leaves, whereas bacterial spot almost always produces some shothole on the leaves.

Lastly, unless scab is extremely severe, it's mostly a cosmetic problem. It can be a problem for canning, because the skins won't slip as easily if there is lots of scab.

Hman, nice write-up on the spray program. I suspect your time-tested program would produce some harvestable fruit in all but the most difficult/humid fruit growing conditions.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Thanks Olpea, but I would only expect it to work where PC has only one generation. South of New Jersey may need more input.

I'm not sure you are correct about labeling on chlorothalonil as far as the version sold for home gardeners- may be a bit more liberal.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

H-man and Olpea,

First of, I'd like apologize to John for hijacking his post for apple spray into peach scab!!

Thank you very much for both of your advice. This past summer was the first time I noticed all my PF 24 C peaches had scab,some more, some less. I think my peaches suffered more from scab than bacterial spot.(only a few leaves had shothole).

I looked back on my old note, someone on this forum suggested sulfur spray 6 weeks after petals fall for scab.

I try to use as little chemicals when possible. I'll think it over about the spray. Olpea is right. It's only a cosmetic issue. I may not do anything and see how bad it'll get this year.

John - I live next to Worcester, MA. My apple spray program is simple:
Kocide 3000 in early spring before bud break
Immunox + Triazicide One and Done at petals fall
Same mix 14 days later
Bags all apples
That's it. Done. Get mostly perfect apples (if squirrels don't take all).

I only have William's Pride apples left (others got killed by a freak of nature). I can easily skip Immunox.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Mam, probably no need to bag apples after applying those 2 insecticide sprays, at least in MA.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

That'd be great. I try half bagged and half unbagged this season to see how it goes. I do hang red spheres to trap apple maggot flies. We do have them.

I also have Honey Crisp which is at least 6-7 yrs old but have not flowered. I'll give it a few more years.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Fri, Jan 4, 13 at 20:33

"I'm not sure you are correct about labeling on chlorothalonil as far as the version sold for home gardeners- may be a bit more liberal."

Some homeowner labels are more liberal than their commercial counterpart, but it doesn't appear to be the case for chlorothalonil. I checked the labels for two homeowner formulations below and both list shuck-split as the last application.

http://www.bonide.com/lbonide/backlabels/l879.pdf

http://www.gardentech.com/pdf/2012-Product-Labels/2112-Daconil-RTU-32oz-Label-2012-Eng-Span.pdf


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Olpea, just shows the benefit of research. I've got to get out of the habit of relying too much on my memory. At least I wrote "I'm not sure" and got you to do the work. Pretty slick for being unplanned.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

One of my apple trees was completely killed by insects last spring, and the other one took quite a beating. I am new at apple growing, and am doing prep work for this season and trying to learn what and when I should be spraying. I saw that I should spray dormant oil spray before any leaves open. However, we have had some very warm weather here in NC, and one of apple trees already has leaves opening in mid January! How do I prevent my apple trees from getting ravaged by insects if it's too late for dormant oil spray? Unless I am missing something, besides the dormant spray, people are only using fungicides until after the pedals fall.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

galagala:

I use Captan 50 WP at rate of 2 TB/gallon and Imidan 70 at rate of 1 TB/gallon.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by bart1 6/7 Northern VA (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 22, 13 at 8:36

Fantastic thread! Thanks to all who have contributed.

Harvestman - - I notice that you are using "over the counter" sprays that you can get at your typical garden center or big box store. I thought you used to use heavy duty stuff like Imidan (but that could be my faulty memory). Do you ever use commerical grade chemicals or do you use the "normal" stuff?

My second question is for Harvestman or anyone else a little further south. I see that Harvestman only does 2 sprays for bugs and I'd love to be able to get away with that, but I'm not sure I can.

I'm in Northern Virginia and I spray my unbagged fruit every two weeks or so until a few weeks before I harvest. Later in the season I switch from Imidan to something with a shorter PHI, but I'm wondering if I'm wasting time and money just to spray toxic chemicals that are unnecessary.

Do any of our more southern growers have any opinions on this? My go-to guy would be Scott Smith, but I know he's just about all organic.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

You may need more spray in N. VA unless you are at a high elevation. You will probably at least have an extra generation of plum curculio. On my own site a recent influx of green stinkbugs have required more spray of stone fruit and Asian pears after more than two decades when this wasn't needed.

Yes, I use chemicals packaged for commercial fruit production.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

I have a question, and I mean absolutely no disrespect. Do you guys use these chemicals because the organic ones don't work, are more expensive, harder to use, etc? This is my first real year with apple trees, and I am try to decide whether to use organic or non-organic. Any advice is very much appreciated.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 22, 13 at 23:35

" How do I prevent my apple trees from getting ravaged by insects if it's too late for dormant oil spray? Unless I am missing something, besides the dormant spray, people are only using fungicides until after the pedals fall."

Keren,

Dormant oil will protect your apple trees against only a few insects. It protects against small insects like mites, scale, aphids, etc., but not against larger insects so don't count on it as you "big gun". Sometimes I don't even spray my apple trees with oil in the dormant season. I rarely spray peaches with dormant oil. I do use it on pears.

"I have a question, and I mean absolutely no disrespect. Do you guys use these chemicals because the organic ones don't work, are more expensive, harder to use, etc?"

Your best bet for growing apples organically is to bag them.

Although there are exceptions, organic chemicals are generally not as effective as synthetic.

Although some organic compounds have reasonably good efficacy against a few specific pests, finding organic compounds that provide good control against major pests can be very challenging.

For instance, there really isn't a good organic pesticide that provides good control for brown rot, which is a major pest in rainy/humid climates.

Plum Curculio is another major pest that is very difficult to control organically. Some have used Surround with varying degrees of success, but it must be applied often to provide any level of control.

In high pressure areas Oriental Fruit moth can be a real problem for which organic options don't work well.

Many new backyard fruit growers are determined to start out organic only to become discouraged or dismayed from repeated harvest failure. Again there are exceptions, but most successful organic growers are located in dry climates like California.

Lastly, beware of some organic methods/compounds that are pure hype when it comes to growing tree fruit and provide no real means of protecting fruit from major pests. Compost tea, neem oil, companion planting, and many home concoctions are basically placebos when it comes to pest control.

A lot of the organic hype on the internet is written by vegetable or flower gardeners who have little experience growing tree fruit, or by people who live in the arid parts of the U.S. and have no real pest pressure.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

I tried the over over the counter (for the organic grower) brand and it didn't work. In New England it's tough to grow nice healthy apples with organics. This spray program discussed here is pretty low chemically speaking compared to commercial orchards which spray alot more to get a perfect apple. and its what I have used for two years now.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

It has been so warm here in North Carolina, that some of my leaves are already out on one of apple trees. Should I spray dormant oil now anyway, or should I use an insecticide since I missed the full dormant time? I noticed actual insecticides aren't "scheduled" here until after petal fall.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by bart1 6/7 Northern VA (My Page) on
    Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 13:23

You can spray a weaker solution of dormant oil on leaves much later in the season so it shouldn't be a problem to do it now. Check the label for different concentrations.

Unless you have a specific insect problem (and it's happening now), I'd wait until after petal fall to spray. In my orchard, the only insect problems I have is with insects attacking the fruit. They get to the fruit when it's very small (slightly bigger than a BB), but I've never had a need to spray any earlier than petal fall. The other reason you want to wait is because you don't want to kill good bugs like bees.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

I'm a brand new member and a beginner when it comes to resurrecting old apple trees on my property.

I've got the pruning step under control. I have purchased Dormant oil and Immunox, but I am having trouble finding Triazicide Once and Done at my usual retail outlets.

I have been able to locate Spectracide Malathion Insect Spray Concentrate (Malathion 50%) as well as Seven Concentrate (Carbaryl 22.5%). My questions:

1. Would one or both of these be an acceptable substitute for the Triazicide product?

2. Should I use just one, or should I get both?

3. If both, should they be mixed?

4. Can they be mixed with Immunox?

Thanks for the help, and for a forum with such helpful content.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Sevin is problematic to use on apples, because when the fruits are small it will cause excess fruit drop.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Sevin can also cause mite outbreaks because it is tough on beneficials. However, so are pyrethroids. Last year I even had a nasty infestation of white fly on apples at two sites managed with Asana- can't be sure if it was caused by the pyrethroid's shotgun pest accuracy (kill's friend and foe) but it was the first year I've seen this after decades of using mostly Imidan. This was the second year I had changed the prescription at that site.

Here in the northeast we seem to get decent results with Surround as long as it is applied real thick. I have it applied 4 times, once a week starting just before petal fall of latest apples.

Of course if apples are scab prone this probably won't be enough to get crop.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

OK, I'll avoid Sevin.

Do you guys think Malathion would work in place of Triazicide Once and Done?

Is the toxicity profile similar?

Thanks.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

No staying power- it will knock off what's on the tree but within a couple days have no affect.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 21:59

I agree both published literature and my experience indicate Malathion doesn't work nearly as well as a pyrethroid like Triazicide for major insect pests. Additionally Malathion would have a more unfavorable health profile for the applicator.

You should be able to obtain Triazicide on the internet. It's a common homeowner formulation. Below is a link from which you can order it from Amazon if you want. 9$ per quart plus shipping.

Here is a link that might be useful: Triazicide liquid concentrate 32oz. - Amazon


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Although the label says not to apply permethrin after bloom ...


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 13, 14 at 11:17

ltilton,

That labeling is specific to permethrin. Triazicide has no such restriction.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

I've also seen Triazide at the big boxes such as Home Depot.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

olpea - the poster said he couldn't find Triazicide.

Although when I can't find something, my local Ace hardware can usually order it for me.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 13, 14 at 18:25

ltilton,

I'm sorry. I misunderstood your comment.

Olpea


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Thanks for the tips on how to locate Traizicide. I may order it from Amazon.

Next newbie questions:

I understand that I need to cover every surface of the tree with dormant oil. When it come time to spray Immunox and Triazicede, do I cover every surface, or limit the spraying to just the terminal branches where the fruit will grow?


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RE: Good spray program for apples

As the bottle reads, apply uniformly to all parts of the tree to point of runoff. Little buggies, disease, fungus ect. can be anywhere.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Triazicide arrived from Amazon in only two days.

I'm ready.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Thanks to all for the answers to my questions about spraying my apples (and peach tree). Off to the store and then back to spray.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

I would recommend downloading the publication from Purdue University, "Managing Pests in Home Fruit Plantings" from their Education Store web site. It is a free download of 34 pages and covers multiple fruit trees, development stages with beautiful photos and spray guides for each of the various fruit types. It includes apple, pear, peach, plum, grape, strawberry and raspberry, giving you cultural and chemical controls that include both conventional and organic controls. Hope this helps someone!

Here is a link that might be useful: Managing Pests in Home Fruit Plantings


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RE: Good spray program for apples

OK, next newbie question: my trees now have green shoots approaching 1/2" in length. It is time to spray with Immunox. It's a rainy week.

How long must the weather be rain-free after the application of Immunox so that I don't lose the effectiveness of the application?

Thanks.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Immunox takes at least an hour of good drying conditions to set, I believe. Once it sets it is impervious to rain.

You still have at least a week, I think, in which to work in oil with the Immunox- you want to get the oil down before the flowers show much white.

Where I live in southern NY I can adequately protect even the most susceptible old apple trees from scab with only 2 applications of myclo (Immunox) beginning at petal fall, but it takes a very thorough application- make sure you don't miss any spots.


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Having tried for 4 years doing this organically, this year I have given up and am implementing a spray program (lost two trees to Oriental Fruit Moth last year.

My biggest issues have been Cedar Apple Rust (attacking two apples and my pear), and the OFM (attacking everything).

I did an initial application of Immunox for the Cedar Apple Rust - and....my tree leaves curled up. Now I am afraid to apply a second application! My petals have dropped, so it is time to start spraying for OFM (using Pyrethroid).

Do I mix the Immunox and Pyrethroid together or just leave the Immunox at a single application and only spray the Pyrethroid?

At this point, I am starting to think the fruit trees are more trouble than they are worth!!


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RE: Good spray program for apples

Kate, OFM shouldn't kill a reasonably healthy tree as far as I know. They mostly damage fruit and the fresh growing shoots leaving enough new growth for the tree to survive, although maybe not as easily in the desired shape.

Yes, after petal fall you will need to mix the insecticide with fungicide for apples. It will take at least two sprays at that point to control CAR. You may need as many as 5 or 6 post petal fall insecticide sprays where you are to get fruit but Scott has a much better handle on that in your region.

Once you've learned the ropes and tasted tree ripened fruit from your own trees you may decide it's worth it.


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