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creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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Posted by oldryder ( (My Page) on Sun, Feb 7, 10 at 9:13
| great forum, been learning a lot. one of the things I've learned is why I've been unable to grow blueberries.
I am planning my spring tilling and plan on working an area that will get blueberries next year.
existing soil is Ph 7.0 - 7.8, relatively sandy, excellent drainage. grows most things pretty well.
I have a convenient supply of pine needles. will pine needles, peat, and a year of waiting give me soil with an acceptable Ph for the berries? (I can easily keep the area watered if necessary as it will be adjacent to existing garden.)
if no, what else is likely to be required.
as always thx in advance for suggestions and help. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| No, contrary to folklore, pine needles have little power to acidify soil- their virtue is relatively low calcium compared to some other materials so they won't drive up the pH either. Use granular sulfor and don't waste a year. If you don't believe me, test the pH of some water and then run some needles in that water through a blender and test again. Pine needles make a fine mulch, but I doubt they are best for blueberries when establishing the plants. You may be better off with woodchips or something that breaks down quickly. As the mulch decomposes, I theorize that the thin layer of soil beneath the mulch is acidified by the decomposing mulch which releases enough available iron to feeder roots near surface. Peat moss is good because it is capable of helping in the acidifying process, but it is much more affective to use forest compost (such as the black spongey layer under decomposing pine needles) to increase the organic matter of the soil, because the peat breaks down quite quickly once mixed. Humus is much more stable. I have often observed healthy blueberries of many varieties in near neutral soil with ample organic matter and mulch. Maybe the literature is based on commercial production where generous mulching is not feasable economically. If the plants don't stay green and healthy looking (and I think they will) use a water soluble iron source you can spray the leaves with until soil acidifying efforts click in. |
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| harvestman, thx for the reply. I will go ahead and try a few plants this year. I know I have to do something different because 2 different attempts ended up with brown leaves and dead plants. I'll modify the soil with forest compost and mulch the plants with wood chips and see what happens. thx for help |
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| Don't forget the sulfor. Hope you're not working with heavy soil. That might require additional strategy, like raised beds. |
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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After a failed planting of blueberries I replanted by digging a lg. hole in my heavy clay soil and mixing a lot of peatmoss with soil I used to back fill around the new plants Then I heavily mulched with wood chips and sprinkle some ammonium sulfate around the plants 2 or 3 times a yr.
since then they have grown rapidly and bear a nice crop of berries each yr. |
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| Pine needles and oak leaves do not lower the PH, but they do not raise it like some other additives might. Adding things like pine needles, Greensand (sulfate of potash), peat moss and Cottonseed meal, all add organic materials and keep the PH heading in the right direction. Remember to add sulfur early, as it takes a while to get going. |
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| Interesting contrast to the planting fruit trees threads, where everyone advises not to mix stuff into the planting hole. What you see in most articles is to mix half peat moss with the soil, then fertilize with azalea/rhododendron fertilizer dissolved in water. There's a TAMU article about growing 'Tifblue' in containers with 100% peat moss, and at least one nursery (Waters Blueberry Farm) suggests planting northern varieties in the ground that way. I grew rabbiteyes in TN with no peatmoss or chemical fertilizer, but the pH was 5.5 there. |
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| Plants vary, and the native blueberry plants I see growing around here tend to be growing in pure forest humus. Because BB''s are such compact plants with shallow fibrous root systems it is not so hard in a home orchard setting to completely create a soil for them. That said, I do believe that blueberries are probably often killed by the creation of a much coarser soil in a small area that gets wicked dry by surrounding, much finer, native soil. Blueberries just don't tolerate drought during establishment. That's why I've stopped growing them in my nursery- too much work for too little money. |
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| At the risk of going further offtopic, there are many kinds of native blueberries (~ 150 species). We used to pick them growing nearly flat on the ground on hillsides in upstate NY. Northern Highbush (V.corymbosum), also called Swamp Blueberry, is found growing wild on little hillocks in wet places, so these really do like lots of water. And they can get over 5' tall. Here we grow rabbiteyes, which get the size of peach trees. Not exactly compact. Finch's website is pretty good for more info, cheap prices too. You could test out growing them different ways, in different soil mixes and mulches, for a small investment. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Finch's Blueberries
RE: creating acidic soil with pine needles?
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| I wonder if the swamp blueberry tolerates wetter conditions than other BB's. The hillocks are actually very well aerated. I always saw them as "proof" that all you need to do in wet conditions is plant BB's on mounds. |
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