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fruitnut_gw

My trees are frozen stiff

Peaches, apricots, pears, many planted in January with up to 18 inches new growth are frozen stiff at 24F this morning. Grapes had 24 inches of growth. I covered the tops but last year the trunks were nearly killed at 25F.

I'm not sure how much damage this will cause.

Comments (65)

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Mrs G:

    Covering isn't enough. I covered a persimmon and apple last night with two blankets and a tarp but no heat. It was a total waste of effort. The covered trees with even a 40 watt bulb look undamaged.

    My grapes look undamaged but were covered with three layers and heat.

    Jujube are wilted over. New growth is toast. I thought they were bullet proof but have been frozen out two years running.

    The newly planted peach, nectarine, and apricot foliage and new growth stems are wilted over. Some leaves already drying up. It may set back fruiting a year.

  • bucky130
    9 years ago

    How will recent grafts hold up? I just rind grafted 12 apple trees this past weekend. Calling for 19 here tonight.

    This post was edited by bucky130 on Tue, Apr 15, 14 at 12:17

  • ltilton
    9 years ago

    I'm not even going to go look until tomorrow afternoon. It's just above freezing here now and going to go back into the 20s tonite.

    Not really expecting trouble except maybe the strawberries. I pulled the mulch back over them yesterday and the snow covered it, so that may be enough. At any rate, they weren't even pushing buds yet.

  • alan haigh
    9 years ago

    Steve, I assume the trees under plastic are alright- right?

    Two year ago I had several hard freezes that got below 24 well after petal fall and the trees, including many varieties of peaches, were not hurt at all. It was only crop that suffered.

    It is strange how same species in different parts of the country react differently to cold weather. Maybe trees here somehow hold on to some greater level of hardiness for later into the season because our springs tend to be cool.

  • thecityman, Zone 7a/6b near Nashville
    9 years ago

    I could just cry. While I'm one of the least knowledgeable fruit growers here, I have spent untold hours learning about growing fruit and was so excited about the coming year. Many of my 3 year old trees bloomed and seemed to be headed toward producing a little bit of fruit this year. But in one night it looks like its all going to be over for me. Of course, I know most of you have many more trees and will be hurt much more than me and my little hobby trees, so I don't mean to sound insensitive. I'm sorry for you all. Its also a bit therapeutic to read these posts and know I'm not alone in my heartbreak. Anyway, a couple questions if you don't mind.
    Here on the KY/TN line they are calling for 28-29 degrees. I have no way of getting electricity to my "orchard" but I do have enough tarps and blankets to cover about 20 trees. #1) Is that a waste of time without heat? Ms. G asked this above but hasn't got an answer yet.
    #2) my peaches, which is what I'm most interested in, have bloomed already and the petals have all fallen off, but the base of the bloom along with the stamen/stigma are all still on the tree, so at this point not even a tiny fruit is visible. How vulnerable are trees in that particular stage of development? Am I dead at 28 degrees?
    #3) Would it be worth it for me to try and spray water on my trees tonight? I know they do that in orange groves and I might could come up with enough hose to do it to my trees if you say it would help.
    The good news, if any, is that here its only predicted to be one night...its supposed to be in the 60's tomorrow!!!

    Again, I'm very sorry for all of you who have a lot more to loose than I do, but if there is anything I can do to help my chances tonight I would like to know what it is so I can at least try. (tarps without heat, water spray,etc) . thanks

  • ltilton
    9 years ago

    Here's my favorite chart for frost damage

    Here is a link that might be useful: frost damage chart

  • insteng
    9 years ago

    Normally I watch my big pecan trees to see when the last freeze in the area will be. They will not leaf out until the last freeze is over normally. Mine are in full leaf now. It got down to the mid 30's but no freeze. Every year it seems right at Easter we get our last cold front.

  • alan haigh
    9 years ago

    IT, that chart is in line with my experience. Sometimes losing 90% of blossoms could be a good thing and certainly most seasons up to 70% loss wouldn't be anything but helpful.

    I never worry about 28 degrees, no matter what the stage of development. It's always been 26 or lower (usually lower) when I've suffered from frost.

    A few year back we got a very hard frost after fruit was formed on trees, probably down to about 24 for a couple hours. I thought everything was fine because the peaches kept growing for a couple of weeks- but then they stopped growing.

    They stayed on the trees at the size of golf balls with the few good fruit that continued to size up and started to rot just as the good fruit was starting to ripen, spreading their goodness around. Hard to protect anything from brown rot that year.

  • olpea
    9 years ago

    My sympathy goes out to Steve and the other's who got froze out, I may be one of the casualties. Still not sure. I know from experience unless blooms are badly frozen, it takes a few days to determine damage.

    mksmth,

    Interesting to hear about the orchard in Porter OK. I know of that orchard and have heard of the festival. I wasn't aware this morining's the freeze extended that far.

  • Tony
    9 years ago

    TCM,

    I don't think you can protect all of them but a few of your favorite varieties. You should cover them with a layer of sheets first then a tarp over them. it would be better with the light bulb in the middle of the tree but if you don't have electricity then anchor a large candle in the center of the tree and that would give heat several hours. Good luck.

    Tony

    This post was edited by tonytran on Tue, Apr 15, 14 at 16:13

  • olpea
    9 years ago

    Tony,

    The problem with some freezes is the wind (which am sure you are familiar with in NE). In the 2007 freeze I tried to cover some trees in my backyard w/ tarps. It was a joke. The wind grabbed the tarps like sails.

    I'll note this freeze wasn't as windy, so it might have worked this time.

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    My greenhouse trees are fine and look great. The peaches and apricot outdoors are looking fried. We've had 70s and 80s for two months. I've never seen foliage damage to this extent. Second year in a row for severe late freeze but even last year the trees weren't affected to this degree.

    I think they'll recover but be set back a couple months. These pictures are from about 11am. They look more crisp every time I go look.

    {{gwi:81040}}


    {{gwi:81041}}

  • glib
    9 years ago

    TCM, you will be fine at 28. We are going to get 17, but little has moved here. I will check tomorrow...

  • glib
    9 years ago

    TCM, you will be fine at 28. We are going to get 17, but little has moved here. I will check tomorrow...

  • alan haigh
    9 years ago

    If you cover anything with tarps be sure you pull away any mulch so heat will rise from the ground.

  • benfisher
    9 years ago

    I guess I'll quit whining about our spring then. We have over a foot of snow on the ground, and have 12+ inches forecasted for wed. This week. Let's just say we do not have any blossoms yet....but I guess we won't lose any.... Yet.

  • thecityman, Zone 7a/6b near Nashville
    9 years ago

    Thanks.....I feel guilty that so many of you were kind enough to console me and offer helpful advice when I know there are people out there who stand to lose so much more than me, including their income in some cases. But as you know, my little hobby seems like a big deal to me and this being my first potential fruiting year makes it an even bigger deal. I'm definitely going to sheet and tarp my favorite trees as suggested, and also try the candle idea. Unfortunately, I suspect Olpea is right and that wind will make tarps and candles both very, very hard. But at least I'll feel like I'm doing something. The forecast is now down to 27, and that is for Nashville which is 40 miles south and usually a degree or two warmer. So its going to be right on the wire for me. Good luck everyone. Thanks

  • thecityman, Zone 7a/6b near Nashville
    9 years ago

    May I please ask one more winterproofing question? I just spent 4 hours SERIOUSLY winterizing my 4 favorite trees and lightly winterizing several more. THe serious ones I wrapped with insulation and covered with blankets and a tarp going to the ground. When I ran out of time and supplies I just threw things like sheets and feed bags, which completely encase small trees but doesn't go to the ground.
    My question is does the latter kind of frost proofing do anything at all, and if so, how? I've seen people throw blankets and sheets over plants all my life, and even though I just did it, it makes no sense to me. I mean, if the goal is to trap warmth from the ground around the plant, then any covering that doesn't go all the way to the ground would seem to be useless, though many people do it. I just cant see how being inside a sheet or even a thick plastic bag would be any warmer than nothing at all. Perhaps it is about wind chill, but in most cases I doubt a sheet or even blanket that is open all along the bottom would keep wind off enough to help. Perhaps I just don't understand the nature of "frost". Many people treat it as if it was something falling out of the sky, as if covering a plant might keep it from "falling" onto it and therefore save it. I always assumed that frost is basically what happens when the temperature falls below 32 degrees, though humidity may slightly affect that.
    My question, at long last, is simply this: Does throwing blankets over trees (when the blanket doesn't go all the way to the ground) offer any protection at all from frost, and if so, how? thanks

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    No covering on a tree does much good unless there is a heat source inside. I covered persimmon and apple with a couple layers all the way to the ground. No heat source as I ran short. It did no good. Open on the bottom would do even less. Yes either might give 1-2F protection but it's not readily apparent.

    Most people don't realize what the critical temperatures are at various plant stages. So when their fruit survives 32F they credit the Xmas tree lights or the sheet. When in fact it didn't get cold enough to hurt anything.

  • don555
    9 years ago

    IT - that's a great chart for evaluating frost damage potential. Thanks for posting!

  • cousinfloyd
    9 years ago

    cityman, I don't have an answer to your question, and I particularly don't know how it applies to fruit trees in the spring, but I know just keeping the frost from settling on garden crops can make a difference with the first fall frost. Even unprotected frost sensitive plants with fairly dense foliage (like peppers) will often lose the uppermost layer of foliage and fruit to the first frost but the lower layers will be okay. Just a thin sheet spread over plants (open on the sides) can definitely make a difference averting/postponing the first killing frost in the fall. I've seen the same thing with plants that are underneath overhangs of buildings, etc. I've read, however, and my very limited anecdotal studies would seem to confirm that just a sheet of plastic can actually make damage from spring frosts even worse. I don't really understand that one either.

  • mrsg47
    9 years ago

    Fruitnut, it looks as if your trees are so healthy they will bounce back. How are the leaves now? Last night we had 28 degrees and light ice on the back steps. I could not get lights out to my orchard, so I took my chances. I hope my buds will be fine. Ran out of extension cords. Never again! Mrs. G

  • milehighgirl
    9 years ago

    Fruitnut,

    I have been reading your saga and I am so terribly sorry. You had enough trouble last year to last a decade, and now this too? Unreal. I'd lend a hand if I were closer.

    You've done everything imaginable to cheat nature. I'm praying your trees will rebound.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Is your weather really worse than west Texas?

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Greenhouse and outdoor trees looked the same two days ago.

    Greenhouse after freeze:

    {{gwi:81042}}

    Outdoors peach/nectarine after freeze:

    {{gwi:81043}}


    {{gwi:81044}}

    Chinese apricot after freeze:


    {{gwi:81045}}

    Montrose apricot after freeze:

    {{gwi:81046}}

    The one pluot that got frozen looks better than apricot and nectarines. Persimmon and jujube are toast.

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    milehigh:

    The bad thing is your weather is worse than mine. But it has been a bad two years for growing fruit trees here.

  • johnnysapples
    9 years ago

    Those pictures tell a sad story. I hope they can still send more life out.

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    It got down to 19 degrees last night and my raspberries have leaves just emerging, it looks like they grew more! Amazing plants.
    Sorry Fruitnut what happened. It is discouraging to me , yet again confirming how hard it is to manage fruit trees. If that happens to you, I don't stand a chance! At least you have some in the greenhouse.

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'm just hoping everything survives. I think they'll all grow back but my doubt has increased somewhat. I'm going to look at my buddies trees after lunch and drive around a little to see what things look like elsewhere.

  • bamboo_rabbit
    9 years ago

    I sure hope that package I sent you was not exposed to that cold.....

  • Tony
    9 years ago

    FN,

    I think your trees will grow back. It happened to my trees a couple of times in the past. On one occasion, a peach tree with 2 inches of fresh new grow died completely with late frost. The other occasion, a peach tree with a month of growth did came back with new leaves. I have high hope for all your trees with 2 months of growth.

    Tony

  • alan haigh
    9 years ago

    I would expect a vigorous tree with 2 months growth would survive if the cambium wasn't killed. I believe it's more likely to be killed shortly after they leaf out because they are at a serious energy deficit at that point. If the bark is still green I bet the trees come back. If they were apples and pears I'd give up odds on the bet. Stonefruit is not so cooperative sending out new shoots.

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    bamboo:

    I'd doubt if the freeze went very far east at least not nearly as severe as here.

    I'd give 20 to 1 odds that most will grow back. I haven't lost a tree so far of ~250 planted this winter. I'd like it to stay that way.

    Guess I should have outfitted my shelter. Didn't think I'd need it this year.

    This post was edited by fruitnut on Wed, Apr 16, 14 at 17:30

  • milehighgirl
    9 years ago

    Fruitnut,

    I beg to differ. While we do get late frosts it usually only kills the blossoms. I've never seen trees leafed out as much as yours are when we had temps as low as yours.

    The worst we got was 7F on April 10 2013 (I'll never forget watching the temps dive hour by hour). That freeze did kill all my buds, apples to apricots, but my trees have done fine.

    Don't you remember that I conceded to you as the winner of the "Worst Weather" award?

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    milehighgirl:

    Maybe I'm ahead by a dinger but it's only the second inning. I bat before you do.

  • mrsg47
    9 years ago

    Fruitnut, I still bet your trees will come back, if not (I am hoping they will! We ended our 29 degrees last night with hail. Not a pretty picture. Am still hoping my peach trees hang on to their buds. The thought of losing peaches two years in a row is unbearable. Boy we take this all seriously don't we! Glad to know I'm not alone. And I thought I would just buy 8 trees and call it a day.. . . . . oh brother. Mrs. G

  • roflwtime
    9 years ago

    Spring 2014 - Never Forget.

    {{gwi:81047}}

  • olpea
    9 years ago

    We had hail here too Mrs. G a few days ago.

    Normally I wouldn't mind a little hail this time of year for natural thinning, but it's all adding up this year - bitter cold winter, spring frosts, hail - it's all happening at once this year, each taking it's share.

    The hail even knocked off some of the growth of my bud grafts, which will probably not come back.

    Casualties over the cold winter were 7 peach/nect. trees. These were young trees I pruned too hard last fall (normally not a problem). I almost never lose peach trees anymore, but this winter taught me a lesson (not to aggressively prune young peach trees before winter). Of the 7, I ended up losing 3 Easternglo nects - all the germplasm of that cultivar (Because of this I wonder if Easternglo isn't all that hardy.)

    This post was edited by olpea on Mon, Apr 21, 14 at 8:30

  • hairmetal4ever
    9 years ago

    Sometimes I forget how lucky we usually are in the Mid Atlantic. We got lucky on both ends - due to the cold March, things are not that far along, and, we only bottomed out at 30 at the airport, a few upper 20s around the western part of my county. The forecast was for 27 but most of us did not get that cold.

  • insteng
    9 years ago

    The only thing I lost was my plums for the second year in a row. Though I lost them about a month ago. The trees were loaded and we had a freeze down to about 20. The trees came back great but all the plums were lost. I did lose quite a few of my peaches at the same time though my trees are young so another year growth without a heavy crop will do them good. I still have enough left on the trees to see how they will taste.

  • MrClint
    9 years ago

    fruitnut and others, hopefully the late freeze is just a set back. No matter how much we plan, we are all subject to the forces of nature. Here's hoping that your trees bounce back quickly. :)

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I think most of the newly planted trees are dead to ground level. When scratched the bark is brown including the rootstock. Maybe they'll sprout back from the rootstock below ground. That won't be ideal but something to bud onto.

  • Tony
    9 years ago

    FN,

    Sorry to hear the bad news. Hopefully some of the rootstocks re-sprout and you can chip or t-bud them in late Agust Plz keep us update on them for learning curve.

    Tony

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hey Tony:

    My plan right now is to T bud on some Krymsk 1 rootstock in the greenhouse and replace the trees that don't come back next winter. But I've got 6 months to formulate something better.

  • milehighgirl
    9 years ago

    Fruitnut, how are your trees doing?

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    As of right now only one tree appears to have totally dead scion. But many have discolored bark down below graft union and the few scion buds pushing are growing slowly. I'm not sure how those will fare in the long run.

    But at least there's a chance.

  • FrancoiseFromAix
    9 years ago

    I've gathered so much knowledge here, and you guys are all so nice and helpful, that it's a shame you lost so much with the weather. It's so unfair !

    For you guys who do it for a living, I know how it feels, because I live from my little business and the last 7 years have been horrendous. Making money for a living is more and more difficult, so I'm sorry you got the weather against your hard work.

    And for you guys who have trees, I also know how it feels because I lost my peach tree due to a sudden freezing Wind. I could have cried.

    Sorry if my lousy grammar doesn't really express my sympathy, but I really do feel very compassionate for you all.

    You guys really sound sad, I just wanted to tell you that I relate even from far away, and especially because you're so nice and helpful.

    Thank you to all, and keep this thread going to keep all informed.

    Francoise from South of france

  • milehighgirl
    9 years ago

    I was just wondering myself if Europe and Asia are also facing bizarre weather like we are getting here in the U.S.. We hear about earthquakes, tsunamis, and hurricanes, but not everyday weather changes.

    "Francoise from South of france" It's hard to imagine that where you are could be anything but idyllic! Your grammar is great. Send some temperate weather to Texas and the whole eastern U.S.!

  • chills71
    9 years ago

    Bad winter here. So far I can verify that my Ichi ke Kei Jiro persimmon was killed. Both of my hardy pomegranates have been at least top killed, but I wont pull them out until I give them a chance to return from the roots. Any one been fortunate enough to have pomegranates return from top-kill? (Rooted hardy varieties on their own roots Kakaze and one that started with an s)

    Poncirus plants are slowly yellowing tips and lower. Im worried about these too

    Im still waiting to see on many of my figs, some in ground and some in garage (as well as some in basement which were neglected due to family medical issues)

    Roses were pretty badly damaged as well, but I bury those grafts, so they should be fine.

    Coldest temps were -11 one night and -8 the following night.

  • fruitnut Z7 4500ft SW TX
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Two months after the freeze and about 20 trees are dead. None are growing well but some will survive. I lost Red Barron, Ranger, Redskin, and Mericrest nectarine to name a few.

    Picture of Harrow Sweet pear. Didn't expect to lose it but it's been cut back very low as seen to lessen water demand and still won't grow.

    {{gwi:81048}}

    Montrose apricot has also been cut way back and won't grow.

    {{gwi:81049}}

    Everything budded back out but like mid winter freeze damage the trees went down hill when it turned hot indicating water conducting tissues are dead or severely damaged. To my surprise nothing has sprouted back from the rootstock.

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    Wow, that looks like my Santa Rosa tree after the severe winter, they just kind of do nothing. I had 10 raspberry canes just die this week, looking at them, floricanes btw, they never produced many flowers or laterals, delayed winter damage. Caroline. All the others are about to pop! I should have my first raspberry in 1 or 2 days. Seems early? Not complaining! Just in time I'm down to one quart of strawberries a day! OK, well 1.5 quarts :) What's cool is it is Prelude, and unlike other fruits, this early raspberry is like top ten best ever material. It's my favorite red actually.

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