For the first time I modified city water pH of 7 using Sulfuric acid to pH 5 for blueberry watering. I stored pH modified water in a 64 Gallon plastic trash can and I use the same can for rainwater harvesting. The can is in my backyard and is shielded from late afternoon/evening sun. These days weather here Dallas is 100+, would like to know whether summer heat will have any impact to the water pH and quality in the trash can.

Thanks

This post was edited by nandakumar on Sun, Jun 30, 13 at 0:10

The sun will heat up the water during the day for sure. My rain barrels are in full sun as well and the water can get quite warm! I put a tarp around my barrels to shade them from the sun. I keeps the water from heating up. Keeps it cool enough I can water mid day if I have to and not worry about cooking my potted plants.

The heat won't change the PH.

Thanks Blueboy and Bamboo rabbit, will try to cover the water can using Tarp.

I'm going to throw in with don555 & BlueberryHillsFarm regarding acidifying water. It isn't something that I have to do, so I don't do it. It also isn't something that I have to talk people into or out of, so I won't do that either. My blueberries are in pots and it would be hard for me to imagine them doing any better. I use straight tap water (pH 8+) or rain water when I have it.

MrClint,

Lets see some pictures of your bushes with say a deck of cards in the picture so we know they are yours:) What you fail repeatedly to understand is water varies greatly from one location to another. The PH of the water does not matter nearly as much as the bicarbonate load.

Sorry but dumping 8+ PH tap water on your plants and you can't imagine they could be better...I call BS. If you can just use rain water......well in that case it is very easy to keep the PH right and the plants happy.

So lets see those pictures:)

Please excuse me while I step over the steaming pile of message-board-hero-wanna-be nonsense.

It is unreasonable to suggest that you have to use acidified water in order to be successful with blueberries.

Here are some reasonable quotes from this thread:

BlueberryHillsFarm:
"...but for the average gardener, stay away from the acid."

"If it works for you, great. keep doing what you are doing.
My point is that it is not the only way and if you don't have to don't."

riverman1:
"To each his own I guess but to me sulphur and soil amendments make the most sense and are not very difficult to manage with periodic ph testing."

Hey, I've got your picture right here...

It is difficult with PH 7 water but with PH 8+ water? Each whole number on the PH scale represents TEN TIMES so PH 8+ water is TEN TIMES more alkaline than PH 7 water. TEN TIMES.

Riverman and BlueberryHill can chime in but I guarantee you their water is not PH 8+.

Some people use no amendments at all because they have perfect soil and perfect water. Blueberries are not a one plan fits all plant. There is no right and wrong as what is right for Riverman may not work for me and vice versa.

It is unfair to make claims the way you do Clint.....other posters see those comments and wonder what they are doing wrong and get discouraged.

Can you grow blueberries with PH 8+ sure but they are not going to be as nice or as productive as they could be if they were kept under better conditions.

Under ideal conditions of PH, fertilization and sun blueberries can have leaves that approach the size of a deck of playing cards......because you stated you could not imagine your blueberry bushes being any better...lets see those pictures so we can compare them to plants growing under ideal conditions.

My 4 yo plant set fruit but only a couple ripened, the rest slowly got smaller and smaller before they dropped off. Is it most likely the alkaline water? I got a couple of tasty handfuls the 2nd year. But the 3rd year was like this one.
It's container grown in mostly peat with azeal fertilizer.
A couple of the other bb plants still have a few plump green berries.

"It is unfair to make claims the way you do Clint.....other posters see those comments and wonder what they are doing wrong and get discouraged."

"Under ideal conditions of PH, fertilization and sun blueberries can have leaves that approach the size of a deck of playing cards."

We have completely different approaches and goals to say the least. Blueberries are not as hard as you claim because I am following very reliable instructions from reputable vendors. If more folks did that they would have fewer problems from the beginning. I've never seen your approach detailed from a to z in one place, but patching it together it looks like a many step, many input process. I feel that is more discouraging to posters than sharing my personal experiences and sharing easy to follow links with proven results. I'm not growing bushes to take to the county fair, I'm not growing them for their leaves, and I really don't want bigger and heavier pots to move around, or greater disease and pest pressure. I want easy care and enjoyable gardening, with healthy harvests. That's what I have. How in the world can that be discouraging? What is better than that?

So please post your approach in a new thread with step by step instructions, from a to z. I will post a new thread as well, with my approach and some pictures, including some of my 'Jubilee' next to a yard stick, and some leaves next to a credit card. It's the largest leaved BB I own and I hate having to move it.

Clint,

Actually I have always said blueberries are easy to grow....Fruitnut took me to task on that one as he has the opposite opinion:)

Far as your quotes in bold above, so? I am letting people know with the best care what they can expect from the plants. With that said the best looking BB I have ever seen don't belong to me:) I have way too many plants BB and otherwise to give them that much individual attention.

What you are telling people here is that you can dump PH 8+ water on the blueberries and they will flourish and that is just not true. I am truthfully stating the "ideal" you are trying to sell snake oil and are now upset because you were called on it.

Why you would want to follow the advice of a plant vendor instead of a knowledgeable source like a university is a bit odd. ALL of my advice is in line with the university recommendations.your "claims" are almost the opposite.

Can't wait to see in your growing guide your recommendation for dosing the blueberries in PH 8+ water and not being able to imagine them being any better lol.

Far as my personal written guide to growing blueberries it is already on Gardenweb....it is one of the FAQ's on the Florida board.

This post was edited by bamboo_rabbit on Tue, Jul 2, 13 at 9:43

Clint,

It is not my FAQ a person on the Florida board was having trouble growing BB and I wrote out a long diatribe of how I do it a couple of years ago. It was chosen by the person that gathers the posts for the FAQ's not by me. Far as a link....really? You don't know how to navigate Garden web? lol

"The reason I follow vendor advice is because they have a vested interest in making sure that customers have success"

So you listen to Donny and Gina from Lowes and Home depot and trust and follow their advice implicitly and completely reject the advice from the PHD's from the universities that had dedicated their lives to researching and growing plants? Wow.....

I post to help others grow plants and I ONLY add in comments on topics I feel I am qualified to do so..it is why I don't comment on stone fruit threads and the like. While I have 8 peach trees and a couple of plums I know squat about them other than what I have read and that is not hands on knowledge. So I read the comments from people who do know their stuff like Fruitnut and MrsG and others and learn.

Clint you have never tried growing with the acid so your comments on it hold no weight. I have grown the plants both ways and know of what I speak. Your advice of using straight PH 8+ water on the plants is BAD advice and does a disservice to anyone that reads it.

I have posted probably 100 pictures of my BB bushes on this site...I have yet to see any from you though...and don't forget to include that deck of cards in the pictures.

Getting advice from a Lowes cashier is the only thing worse than getting spotty advice from a message board hero. I always assume the best of intentions from people, so I have no doubt that you mean well. You do insult and attack other members that disagree with you. I usually skip over your posts because of this.

For reliable vendors I recommend the following:
Four Winds Growers: In business for over 60 years, family owned for four generations. Lots of great and easy to follow plant care guides, including blueberries, on their site.
Dave Wilson Nursery: In business since 1938. Great content, easy to follow directions, including blueberries.

I'm still waiting for your blueberry guide from a to z. I'm also still waiting for pictures of your "ideal" blueberries that sit in the full sun of Florida in July, with years of sulphuric acid irrigation and ammonia sulphate fertilization.

Just an FYI about rainwater -vs- TAP

there are good and bad with both
it depends on YOUR tap and the type of plants
(not to mention the PH)

heres some snips i found...
------------------------------------------

There are a few plants out there that can't handle common tap water chemicals like fluoride or chlorine even in trace amounts
--

Some very hard water can cause mineral buildup in the soil, and if your home has a water softener, the extra sodium can be hazardous to plants
--

According to a 2008 EPA study that looked at rainwater composition in North Carolina during a hurricane, minerals such as nitrate, mercury, chloride and sulfate were present.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7282758_mineral-composition-rain-water.html#ixzz2XzuxsBUE
--

well water will generally have higher mineral and metal content depending on local soil conditions. In comparison, rain water will not have these issues, but may be adversely affected by local air pollution and debris in the rainwater catchment and conveyance areas (i.e. roof, gutters, downspouts, and pipes).
http://www.harvesth2o.com/rainwater_safe.shtml#.UdRHjD-5CUk

Mrclint:

Your contempt for this forums "gurus" is obvious. But that's not going to get you the hero's status you desire. So why not just get lost? No one will miss you.

If you want to discuss this my members page has emails enabled yours doesn't.

This post was edited by fruitnut on Wed, Jul 3, 13 at 12:55

Clint,

I have not insulted you at all in this thread.....you on the other hand have insulted me several times.

You are criticizing a technique you have never tried....it is like a kid saying they hate apples yet have never had one. Even though universities and professionals all embrace the technique you still take your advice from venders that are trying to sell you on their product.

Far as the ideal you will have to wait......Florida BB have just been summer pruned. I took about a foot off of all the bushes and removed almost all bottom limbs to encourage new bull shoots. The pruning was about 3 weeks ago so the top growth is all pretty light green and young still and have been busy pinching......you know that other technique you don't understand:)

These are all pictures of my bushes, I have 3 beds total and this is one of them. The picture quality is ok for a cell phone..these new Galaxy S4's are supposed to have a 13 mp camera I guess.

This bed is a mixed bag of 18 month old plants up to 9 year old bushes.
{{gwi:82149}}

This is a bed of sweetcrisps, they were planted 18 months ago. Yes they are wilted...they wilt every day in the heat but perk up as the sun drops, it is a trait of sweetcrisp.
{{gwi:82150}}

While not huge huge leaves they are nice size and perfect (Emerald)

{{gwi:72471}}

Now let's see yours:)

This post was edited by bamboo_rabbit on Wed, Jul 3, 13 at 13:16

And here is the third bed......it is in the back. Excuse the finger.

The row to the far left is Emeralds, they were planted 2 months ago. To the right and front are young Jewels planted last fall. Further down is a mixed bag of 3-5 year old bushes. You will see some holes in the rows it is where the rabbiteyes were torn out. I am constantly removing bushes and replanting new ones to try the different varieties. Where the Jewels are use to be southmoon and where the new Emeralds are use to be a mixed row of 7 year old bushes. Further to the left out of the picture is an entire empty row but mulched and has the irrigation in. That will be where the Ravens will go. The upright sprinklers you see in the pictures are not for irrigation, they are for freeze prevention during flowering.

Go ahead and zoom in on the plants Clint.....

Btw I have not given the blueberries anything except nitrogen this year, no P no K. But will soon. Just ammonium sulfate.

{{gwi:82151}}

Btw every one of these pictures was taken this afternoon.

This post was edited by bamboo_rabbit on Wed, Jul 3, 13 at 13:54

Some questions for mrclint:

1. I recall from another thread that you use the DWN recommended blueberry potting mix. Does this include the "handful" of elemental sulfur? If so, do you reapply annually?

2. How often do you repot? When you do, do you completely refresh the mix (i.e. bare root the plant)?

I'm wondering if one or both are what allow you to use alkaline water without adverse consequences. For example, I don't know why on earth DWN suggests adding sulfur (1 to 2 tablespoons, I would guess) to their recommended potting mix (1/3 pine bark, 1/3 peat, 1/3 acid potting mix). After all, those ingredients almost guarantee a pH that's appropriate for blueberries, so perhaps the sulfur helps to counteract the alkaline irrigation water over time? On top of that, I recall that you're fertilizing with Miracle-Gro's acid formulation (which contains chelated iron), which should also help to keep the pH down (at least to some extent). Also, if you completely replace your potting mix, bare root repotting would mean a complete reset. So, assuming that the upward pH creep is sufficiently gradual, perhaps one more of these factors is what allows you to irrigate with alkaline water without adverse consequences?

This post was edited by shazaam on Thu, Jul 4, 13 at 12:51

Yes, the mix directions I followed called for 1 handful of soil sulfur per plant. The acid fertilizer recommendations eliminate the need for further acidifying of the water. People who started out with the DWN mix and then seek to reach some kind of "ideal" state --with daily acidified water may actually be doing harm to their plants. It is really important to follow a set of reliable instructions closely and stick to them when you are working with or trialling new plants.

I re-potted this year and will probably only re-pot again if production dwindles. I would also get a pH meter at the first sign of trouble.

Clint,

The acid fertilizer recommendations eliminate the need for further acidifying of the water.

LMAO umm no:) Small amounts of acid forming fertilizer used to feed the plants will not counteract the huge amounts of liming agents you are dumping on the plants on a daily basis with your PH 8+ water.

So if it is a handful what if it is a petite woman with small hands or a man with large hands? One will under acidify and the other will fry the plants by over sulfuring, great advice.

Still waiting to see those pictures of your plants with the deck of cards, I kept my side of the bargain:)

The amount of sulfur is not critical, therefore easy to follow and rather imprecise amounts are fine. Again, until you post your methods no one can comment on them directly. DWN stakes part of its business on that imprecise amount of sulfur and I can vouch that it works.

I posted "My Blueberry Trials" on another message board. It's a message board that is actively moderated, so I chose to post there. And since FN wants to push me out the door here, I figured maybe he's right, none of the self-proclaimed gurus would miss me. :) But it appears that you and shazaam have kept the dream alive by asking me direct questions, so here I am still! LOL

Anyway, In that post I attached some pictures and a description of my approach. There are other members commenting that they are using the same approach and are happy with it. Let me know if you need more hints, I think it would be bad form for me to post a link to it in this context.

Bamboo, your blueberries look great to me. But I'm not sure if they are ideal, as you have not defined what ideal is yet.

Summer pruning and topping is a UFL recommendation, and not something that I do. Commercial BB growers in Florida use topping machines after harvest. The recommendations I follow call for winter pruning before the buds open.

I will stick around this message board a bit longer if you and the anointed ones don't mind. :)

Mrclint:

As far as I'm concerned you are most welcome here if you wish to contribute to the forum in a positive manner. You have the knowledge and experience to make a highly positive contribution. We lack active posters from CA.

But when you compare the quality of the advice given on this forum to what you could get from the check out cashier at Lowes that's not only disrespectful it's contemptuous. There are a lot of knowledgeable and experienced folks here who make this by far the best fruit forum on the web.

Yeah, that was a harsh statement I made. I'm not above telling you that if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. But at the same time not all advice is equal. Some of it is self-serving and not very sound. Since I try to counter those sorts of issues as they occur, it makes me appear contrarian. Gardenweb is great. It is the most accessible and most indexed (by search engines) garden forum on the web. But it is largely unmoderated and not always conducive to the free flow of ideas. Louder voices can dominate. The blueberry topics are not very balanced at the moment.

I have to agree with 'fruitnut' here.
I think we should consider the very old adage. "Don't feed the Trolls" it's still current after all these years.

Mrclint,

You seem to have a lack of flexibility and refuse to even acknowledge new concepts in growing let alone to thoughtfully consider them.

Now before you just brush that off and get all defensive I want you to consider and really think about the following.

The logic of summer pruning.

You are missing out on a great opportunity as you are lucky enough to have the growing season length needed for it. The winter pruning is an old concept for us warm weather folks but still applies to those in the north. If you take the plant and June prune off all the stems that flowered that spring right behind the last bloom point and fertilize well the plant will respond by giving you an EXTRA flush of growth. As that flush of growth gets going if you pinch the growth you will get extra branches. Each branch you clipped will turn in to 2-3 new shoots and as you pinch them that will give you a total of 6 or 8 fresh branches that will fruit and with all the new branches that increased fruit load can be supported. So cutting off that 6 inches of old growth you gain 18" of extra growth. Not only that but the pruning will stimulate the plant to produce new canes from the base. There is ZERO negative to the technique, NONE there are MANY positives. Not only do you get more growth and a bigger bush faster so more fruit can be supported you also get brand new leaves in June which replace the spring leaves and will stay in much better condition till later in the season so they can better produce energy to the plant.

"But at the same time not all advice is equal Some of it is self-serving and not very sound"

You are correct on the first part. You have been growing the bushes for two years? Do you really think you are in a position to definitively tell what is and what is not sound advice?

beeman, there's a better one that's even older than that:
"...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

This post was edited by mrclint on Thu, Jul 4, 13 at 22:47

"unlike vinegar it is not a temp fix."

Actually it appears that is not true. Well at least some don't think so. Acid + bicarbonate=co2 + h2o + byproducts. This breaks down the acid too, and this reaction will occur before anything breaks down vinegar.
I was reading this article about cacti....

Here is a link that might be useful: Cactus_and_Alkalinity

Another question arises too, if you use sulfur, bacteria turn it to acid, then the acid is broken down by bicarbonates, making the sulfur available to the bacteria again? You may want to watch the total amount of sulfur added. At some point it may built up? I'm asking because I was not really thinking of the basic chemistry. I guess a certain amount is flushed away too with watering. Ironic in the sense vinegar may actually be the better alternative. In the article it mentions the formation of gypsum, and that vinegar actually makes the CA more soluble. It doesn't go into how. But the buildup of gypsum is probably not good either, Sure some is great, but too much of a good thing is not! We all know what too much nitrogen can do. Is their a problem with too much calcium?

Drew,

Beyond me.......all I know is the acid is what the universities recommend. Could I use vinegar? Sure but it would cost 100's of times more money for no gain.

Far as the document stating how vinegar acts in the soil who is the author? Sounds like he is a cacti hobbyist? I see no PHDs or university backing and they do state the work is theoretical so I would take what they say with a grain of salt.

Thanks for sharing this article, Drew. The chemistry is over my head, but it proved to be interesting reading nonetheless. The writers' point about pH rebound over time was new to me -- I think I'll try acidifying some of my well water, testing the pH, and then waiting a few days before testing again.

One thing that the article helped bolster in my mind is that vinegar is a perfectly acceptable acidifier for container culture. Al (tapla), who posts in the Container forum, has made this claim over the years, but I think I now have a better grasp of why. Yes, calcium acetate (the resulting chemical compound from the reaction of dissolved calcium bicarbonate and acetic acid) can be metabolized by microorganisms and converted back into bicarbonate, but that takes time. Since calcium acetate is water soluble, though (that's where this article comes in), it's going to be continually leached from the soil at each watering, so a buildup of bicarbonates in the potting mix would appear to be unlikely. Nonetheless, my grasp of chemistry is rudimentary at best, so there could very well be something that I'm overlooking...

When sulfuric acid reacts with bicarbonates the product is calcium sulfate, gypsum. The sulfur and calcium are both tied up as gypsum. Gypsum is stable and doesn't adversely affect blueberries. So sulfur doesn't build up in the soil.

At least this is my understanding.

Bamboo, the article pretty much states you should use Sulfuric acid. Mentions it's the cheapest method and where to get it. And is what the authors use themselves! Nobody is suggesting you switch your methods. But I have 3 plants. Vinegar is safer, and a gallon will last me years! I don't have to buy protective gear, worry about storage etc. The article is more for me.
I don't know his credentials, but I do know the article is a reprint from "The Cactus and Succulent Journal" It appears one of many written by these authors. Another article is
linked below. Note the foot notes to back his claims, he did his homework obviously!
Shazaam and fruitnut, thanks for the info, I have over 30 credits in chemistry, yet I had a hard time with the article too. What you state is really important to know.
My only point in posting was to refute that vinegar is temporary, it appears it is not. And we learned about rebound, so now have to adjust our amounts we add. So far this year I have been able to capture enough rainwater, but nice to know I can convert my city water, and will do so for my other plants in the winter. My cacti have responded well to acidic water, take a look!

Here is a link that might be useful: Ammonium Nitrogen and Acidic Water for Xerophytic Plant Growth

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Jul 26, 13 at 0:16

The linked article in above post is even more amazing than the first article! OK, so I get 1 tablespoon of the mixed fertilizers per 2.5 gallons. Is that right? (for humus soils).
The mixed fertilizers are
Ammonium Sulfate 2 parts
Schultz all pupose (20-20-20) no urea? 1 part

Which is the same as 2 teaspoons of AS and 1 teaspoon of 20-20-20 per 2.5 gallons.

To be safe, maybe use 1/2 that amount?

One variable missing is watering amounts. i water a lot, so you might add too much. Maybe use this once a week? It seems worth exploring considering what fruitnut found out, and what Al (of 5-1-1 fame) does, this is even more refined. What do you guys think???

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Jul 26, 13 at 1:30

Drew,

Going to read the second article now but my only point was it is not a good idea to believe what you read on the internet. The authors seem to be hobbyist growers like us and I can't find where PHD's or universities agree with them that vinegar's effects are not temporary.

I had enough chemistry in college to see they are correct.
I'm convinced at this point. In potting culture it is better to use vinegar than sulfuric acid. As gypsum will form a white unattractive powder in the soil. It doesn't hurt anything, it just looks bad. Calcium acetate made with using vinegar will be leached out of the soil as it is water soluble. I also learned it can neutralize fluoride, yet another added benefit to gardeners.
Dentists use calcium acetate to remove fluoride which weakens dental glues. So it is an additive in the glue.
I see no where any evidence that bacteria can change calcium acetate which is also a medication back to bicarbonates. It is a permanent removal. If they could calcium acetate would not be used as a medication, or in dental glues.

I don't claim to be an expert, heck I missed the fact sulfur is bound up in gypsum when using Sulfuric acid. Duh!! Thanks fruitnut for pointing that out!

The claim that vinegar is temporary is false, I would need to see the chemical reaction to be convinced otherwise. One is introducing Hydrogen ions, and how exactly the bacteria neutralize those before bicarbs react would have to be pointed out to me, and confirmed by college professors :)

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Jul 26, 13 at 10:04

Acetate in higher organisms is metabolized the same way fats are. Just think as vinegar as a 2 carbon fatty acid, in fact acetyl-CoA is the starting molecule in the krebs cycle which bacteria use, read the first line.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle
A little more info on acetyl-CoA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetyl%E2%80%94CoA_synthetase
After reading this post on blueberries I want to try growing them again. Anyway were I live the ph is 8.6 and the hardness goes off of the chart at 300 ppm so I will probably try using H2SO4. I know many people who have tried growing blueberries with vinegar and sulfur and they have failed.

The article mentions many acetates, but not calcium acetate, so it proves nothing. As a matter of fact all the molecules mentioned, none have calcium. And remember it's about changing it back to bicarb, not metabolizing the acetate. You're going to have to show me how they change it to bicarb. Anything else doesn't matter one bit. Only if they can make it basic again. Also even if they could calcium acetate is water soluble and chances are you are flushing it before any bacteria can change it back. if even that possible? So far no proof they can.
I used sulfur and vinegar and my blueberries are thriving. But I try and use as much rainwater as possible. When using city I store in a 32 gallon trash can and let the chlorine evaporate, use vinegar, and now will add the fertilizer regime mentioned by the same authors.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Jul 26, 13 at 12:21

"I know many people who have tried growing blueberries with vinegar and sulfur and they have failed."

That may be so, but that doesn't mean that vinegar and sulfur are responsible for their failures. If used properly, both can be effective ways of addressing the pH needs of blueberries. However, you're correct that calcium acetate can be metabolized by bacteria. This issue seems to come up a lot in aquarium culture. Here, for example, is an aquarium supplement that contains calcium acetate and magnesium acetate that are "metabolized by bacteria to create biologically available bicarbonate." So, yes, vinegar is only a temporary way of removing bicarbonates.

Thank Shazaam, i take that as proof they can. Very good info! OK, well I guess I'm going to have to use sulfuric acid. As I can't depend on always being able to flush the calcium acetate out. If my blueberries were in pots maybe but they are in raised beds. Either that or find a way to collect more rainwater. So far this year, i have had enough rainwater.
Good discussion!

This post was edited by Drew51 on Fri, Jul 26, 13 at 12:29

"The article mentions many acetates, but not calcium acetate, so it proves nothing. As a matter of fact all the molecules mentioned, none have calcium."

It proves everything the calcium is irrelevant because in organic and biological chemistry the reactions are solvated and the metal cation doesnâÂÂt directly participate in the reaction.

"And remember it's about changing it back to bicarb, not metabolizing the acetate. You're going to have to show me how they change it to bicarb."

The end product of acetate metabolism is carbon dioxide that dissolves in water to make carbonic acid.

"That may be so, but that doesn't mean that vinegar and sulfur are responsible for their failures. If used properly, both can be effective ways of addressing the pH needs of blueberries."
Your right but it just seemed with the extreme hard water that I have in my area that vinegar and sulfur didnâÂÂt seem to be enough. My brother is a big aquarium nut and is always testing the water for hardness, ph etc. He has tested the local water many times for hardness and it goes off the chart, literally his testing supplies canâÂÂt go that high. So it just goes back to the view that what works for some people isnâÂÂt always going to work for other people. To me using sulfuric acid is no big deal. I have had plenty of experience using dangerous chemicals and I actually already have some sulfuric acid.

Drew,

Like you said the best bet is rainwater. Even if what they said about the vinegar is now disproved I am still curious about the bounce back they mentioned. I am going to start that test today in my tank. I do think i read about the bounce back somewhere though that it was correct.

Just for clarity my claims were asking if vinegar was permanent, the authors never mention that, So I was wrong not them.
Yes it appears we are back to sulfuric acid!! I guess for a quick fix vinegar is ok, but for long term it seems to me sulfuric acid is better. In pots vinegar might be ok, as some calcium acetate is going to flush out.
Hey check the 2nd article out about fertilizer

Here is a link that might be useful: Ammonium Nitrogen and Acidic Water for Xerophytic Plant Growth

Drew you bring up a good point about the calcium acetate rinsing out of the soil. Acetates and most sulfates are highly soluble. I wonder if it is a problem to over water BB's when using either sulfuric acid or vinegar by washing out other trace minerals? In nature the main acid in the rain water would would be carbonic acid, and in the ground it would be humic acids. Most carbonates are insoluble and I don't know about humates.

I did read the article on the fertilizer. A lot of commercial growers here supply all the NPK through the water. It is more expensive that way as you are watering row middles but saves labor costs so is a wash.

The plants especially in ground plants need the N constantly but you can just do the P and K now and then.

It seems thereôs a lot of discussion arround vinegar or sulfuric acid.

I understand thar both will lower your Ph but does vinegar has the same effect sulfuric acid as on eliminating the bicarbonates?

Not considering the long or short term effects of both and depending on you tap water, both could be "better choices" is this right?

Both do eliminate bicarb, but with vinegar the bicarbs will be back. So sulfur is clearly superior.

Hi....can anyone tell me what is going on with my blueberries here please? they were transplanted about a month ago.......i have two different types and two of each.......the one type is ok.....the other are not.....i planted into acidic potting mix........its cold winter in perth western australia........the leaves are going pure yellow and dropping....some are red......is this normal or reason for concern?.....PH is 6 ..soil is not wet....thanks

jonathancox007… who’s chain you trying to yank?
Perth + cold winter doesn’t exist.
Thats like saying ‘hot snow’… 🤣
No, I’m not a jealous Melburnian…
Dunno what you’re talking about.. 😇
In relation to your question, it could be just the cold or shock.. but I had a quick look on safari and there’s a few possibilities. Check it out mate, https://www.google.com.au/search?q=what+makes+blueberry+leaves+go+res&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari

Well he had a problem 5 years ago. Hopefully he solved it by now.