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This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Posted by konrad___far_north 3..just outside of E (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 14, 13 at 13:09

Allot of people do it like this and wonder why graft doesn't take.

If you're doing only one cut on the scion, [without the two side cuts] cambium of stock will lay on top of scion bark,...making poor or no connection with cambium.

Here is a link that might be useful: bark graft


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

konrad why not show us how to do it or explain how to do it better. Anything is better than sending us to a video you say shows the wrong way to do it.

Are you saying the scion should be cut from two sides into a wedge before inserting it into the rind/bark or the host tree?

Not trying to be a jerk. I could use the help. I've never done this before but had saved that video because I thought that it was the right way to do it.


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Yeah I know, thanks for asking,....just assuming most of you know what I'm talking about and seen my pictures before, the two side cut's I'm talking about are 90degree from the first cut, first picture in link below.
It is the cut facing you, which we can call it the second cut, 3rd.
cut would be on the far side, parallel.

Wilson nursery makes only one angle cut, [bottom cut in my picture].
These additional two side cuts will make better cambium contact on both, [stock and scion] when you slide it down.

Hope you follow this explanation.

Here is a link that might be useful: bark graft


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Konrad, I'm no expert as I have never done any fruit tree grafting. I have read a little about it and watched a number of videos on several grafting techniques. From what I've seen and read there is more than one way to skin a cat depending on what you have to work with. Not to mention skill level and personal preference.

To me the DWN video is simply showing a different kind of graft on very different dimensions of wood than what you were working with in the thread you posted. Sure DWN could have done it differently. They even could have grafted to water sprouts. But he was showing a totally different grafting technique on very different wood. He is also in a commercial orchard where looks matter little and time to produce fruit is paramount. I see they are no longer on youtube but there used to be two follow-up videos and the grafts took. He had to remove some of them and the tree was producing in record time. It was amazing how fast the scions matured with all the energy from that fully mature tree pushing energy into them.

By the way DWN also has a video posted with other grafting techniques. I have seen your work and have no doubt that both your skill and technique is better. I sincerely hope you will one day post a video demonstration on youtube. I’m sure there are many experienced grafters who would love to see and learn from it. Not to mention many novices like myself.

When I start grafting I would try to do it your way if I thought I could do it well. But due to several serious spinal injuries that affect by strength and feeling in my hands. I think I will start out with one of the "Not so good." methods and see how well I can manage with my total inexperience and limited ability. If I ever come close to mastering the easier methods may give yours a try. After all; One must first learn to walk before you can learn to run.

Here is a link that might be useful: Grafting Fruit Trees


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

I can see your point when you never have done it.

To all the grafters out there, whatever graft you do, we sort of have a clue that good cambium contact is important,...this is not the case in the video and clearly is visible when he slides in the scion.


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

  • Posted by mrclint z10SoCal Valley (My Page) on
    Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 22:45

Actually, the DWN graft video is excellent for folks that are adhering to BYOC concepts. I've done this grafting method, and it works as advertised. It's dead simple for beginners and folks that aren't looking for notoriety as a "graftician". We are not talking about growing monstrosities like the Na'vi home tree -- these are small, manageable trees. :)

Here's a non-DWN video where a fellow tests the strength of the same type of graft on an apple tree. This is fine for what I'm doing. When did easy and effective for a particular application become something that needs to be attacked? It's just another approach and skill to go along with our tool chest. Use whatever grafting method you want, why knock some other method in the process?


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Perhaps I came down too harsh on DWN

It's all about improvements,...many have come to me and wondered why the bark graft don't take. A pro. Austrian nurseryman showed me this,..all it takes two little flats on the sides.

Looks like DW couldn't produce a follow up,...someone asked.

Mostly it's the problem on heavier stock, the bark is thick and the scion wood goes way too deep.

Any bark graft in this instance is not all that good, ...I like to stay thumb size for stock only.

If it was me, grafts done on heavier stock, a cleft or wedge graft I would prefere, then you get perfect cambium contact.

Good showing on a wedge graft for heavy stock in this link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wedge graft technique


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

None of the methods shown would work consistently when grafting nut trees. Walnut and pecan are much more demanding of accurate cuts and lots of cambium contact. The most effective grafts for walnut are inlay bark graft, inlay side graft, and various greenwood budding methods. Pecan works well with inlay bark graft, double end inlay bark graft, 4 flap graft, cleft graft, and various patch budding methods. Maximizing cambium contact is the crucial distinction for getting good percentages of takes.

Anyone who can whittle a stick can graft fruit trees, but it takes skill and good technique to work with nut trees. Only macadamias are more demanding in terms of methods and technique.

DarJones


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

  • Posted by mrclint z10SoCal Valley (My Page) on
    Tue, Apr 16, 13 at 10:57

DWN has a 6-month follow up video available for viewing. It's a dead simple and effective method for top-working BYOC trees. It's really a disservice to attack a method that works fine. I'm not sure if this is because you have a grudge against DWN, or just want to exhibit some one upsmanship.


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Joe Real, Lucky P. and I do the same barkgraft similiar to DWN. Except we did an extra small cut from the top to the bottom on each side of the slice to maximize cambium contact. That's all. Works almost to 100%. Just need to stake the graft from deer and strong wind. Mr Texas also had a nice strong barkgraft.

Tony

Here is a link that might be useful: Mr Texas Barkgraft


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

"Allot of people do it like this and wonder why graft doesn't take."

Looks like it took well in the follow up video.


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Right, tony.
I do feel as though 'shaving' a bit off each lateral surface of that long sloping 'back-cut' exposes more cambium for potential contact & callusing.
Did a number of oaks & mulberries with that simple bark graft yesterday.

Apples/pears - you can almost just throw the scions at the rootstock, or get them in the same room together, and you're virtually assured of success.

I use a modification of that technique for most of the nut trees I graft(mostly pecans/hickories), especially when grafting relatively small-caliper scions onto rootstocks 2-4X their diameter - but instead of completely beheading the rootstock, I just cut about 3/4 of the way through, and break the top over, leaving it attached as a 'sap-drawer', then place my simple bark graft. Once the scion is pushing growth, I'll come back and snip off the 'hanging top' of the rootstock.


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

There used to be one more follow up video but DWN deleted a lot of their videos roughly 18 months ago. The grafts took and produced a sizable crop the following year. Having watched the videos a couple years ago I was very impressed even as ugly as the grafts look. The return to full fruit production in such a short amount of time with premium varieties to me was just astounding.


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Thanks for the Wedge graft technique link Konrad. Looks like something even I could do.


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

I don't want to bash anybody.
I'm still surprised that a scion can grow buried this deep under the bark. Nothing ever grew when I've done this type of graft on heavy stock over 30 years ago.

Similar to this in link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bark graft on heavy stock


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

Here is another video I like on heavy stock peach.

Here is a link that might be useful: Graft


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RE: This bark graft from Wilson Nursery,..not very good.

In this link you see a bark graft done about on thumb size stock, image b.
Image c is a V-2cut graft which I think is really nice, used on heavier stock, about DWN size [video]

Here is a link that might be useful: Graft


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