Wow, predatory squirrels that eat through chicken wire! Sounds like a horror flick.

""How it works" is that it creates an intestinal blockage"

Karenrei,
That seems to be the false assumption. Also there is an assumption that while setting up it burns them.
I made a bon-bon last fall to see if it would ever set up even when water is added. The oil in the PB keeps that chemical reaction from ever happening with the PoP just like I figured it would. It's still soft. It has to be something else.
Try again.

I think it works as a mineral overdose like chuck60 mentions.
Try searching "Hypercalcemia".

I wish I could shoot them but the city frowns on shotguns and 223s flying around. It's not practical to fence a squirrel out of a fruit tree like you did with rabbits. Squirrels can chew through tree netting, you need a fairly large gauge wire to stop them.
Try again.

Your MSDS is meaningless. Those are for humans not animals. Search your MSDS for the words animal or squirrel.

Just for your self-righteousness I'm going to make some bon-bons today. If they actually work you can blame yourself, next time offer help instead of indignation.
And if you want to go on about "bucket-o-death" I'll set one of those up this year too (and I have a lot more faith in one of those working).
I feel sorry for the people like the OP who have replies to topics like this emailed to them.

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it, Harvestman, although I've read that common brown rats can gnaw through wire. Check out the link below, especially the part about diet...

Here is a link that might be useful: Rock Squirrels

Thanks myk1, her hysteria is somewhat contagious and put everyone off subject. I did get some help though, I will try the flour and PoP, we know how that works. I have some extra gelatin capsules, I can fill them with white flour and PoP about 50/50 and a few of those should do the job.
They should be good for rats too. Well.. any rodent.
Thanks again for your support. ~PAPPY~

I'm still amazed at their gnawing ability. I originally honed my hort skills in the relatively wild foot hills of S. Calif.. in the early 1970's. The crop had to be hidden from humans and kept from groundsquirrels. Black painted chicken wire burried a foot into the ground and completely enclosing plants was a requirement. If we had had squirrels with the inscissors of your rocks, I'd probably work in an office today instead of tending orchards.

could you tell me why are there more male squirrels than female squirrels, if i am right?
why i say there are more males than females is because i catch more males than females, rough calculations
in ratio of 10 males to 1 female.

what's your experience?

Maybe the males are dumber or more inquisitive about getting the nut out of the metal cage rather than just digging..

I never noticed the sex ratio..didn't inspect the squirrels for their nuts..

(couldn't resist)

pjames, i don't know where they keep them (nuts) but i noticed a little protruding thing when i take them out from water (drowning):-)

Pappy- Just an idea, mix in a little REAL butter, as in churned, not peanut. It does wonders for bait acceptance in mouse and rat bait.

Jellyman- anyone who prefers Walmart brands is my kind of people. Keep up the good work.

fruithack, Yes butter or maybe shredded cheese. I had thought about shredded coconut. But if you don't see the bodies, how do you know it's working?
I guess you could put up a feeding station, and gather them as in a coffee c latch. Name them, and then introduce the bon bons, and notice the ones that were absent.
Possibly making them all disappear.
I've counted nine in the neighborhood, so they could cut a lot of green fruits and nuts.

Thought about it some more. Maybe try bacon grease. Maybe just dip bonbons in different coatings (chocolate?.. kind of like Reeses) and see what the vermin prefer. Obviously place so that kids can't find them.

Pappy, Only 9 squirrels in your neighborhood? I'd be thrilled with that number.. I drove around my block yesterday morning after counting 3 in my back yard. In the one circuit I counted 22 on the ground in front yards only.

But now that I have a gameplan with the bon bons, the battle is on!!! They have been digging in my garden where i have only tilled so far and parts of my yard look like a minefield.

I have set up a "feeding station" and put a few sunflower seeds down. Then I add a little pile of shredded cheese,or shredded coconut, and they have eaten the sunflower seeds and left the coconut and cheese.
I can't believe that a squirrel would leave the cheese, so it must be birds eating the seeds, and someone else is working on the squirrels, cuz I haven't seen one lately.

I mixed up a new batch of bon bons, using creamy pb, and globbed it on the tree next to my "station", and whoa, they disappeared. so I have been replacing the globs every day, and the seeds have started to pile up, and this morning, the glob was still on the tree. Have I run out of squirrels?

Pappy:

The absence of squirrels is the best visual indicator that your control strategy is working. When I put out bonbons, my local squirrels disappear in 24 hours.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

What brands of PoP are you guys using? I bought a bucket of PoP from Micheal's craft store, mixed them up with peanut butter. I put several bonbons out every couple of days for the past several weeks. The squirrels keep eating the bonbons, but they keep coming back. Seem to have no effect on them at all. I don't see any reduction in the population. So I am just wondering if the brand of PoP matters at all.

The bucket of PoP I bought is blue (I forgot the brand), there was also a "DAP" brand that was $2 more.

My last batch of bon bons was ignored.. at least by the squirrels. I know some birds liked it and of course the ants got into some of it too before I caught on. I will be making another batch in the morning. One question, how many do you put out at once? Any idea how many it takes to knock out a squirrel? We have so many squirrels in my neighborhood that I'm not sure I can make a real dent in the population... but I'm determined to try.

asic, The PoP I bought, is Dap, but it is just plain calcium sulfate with some silicate added.
pjames, I'm no expert, but I just take a big glob on a teaspoon and keep it as rounded as I can, an daub it on the old stuff they didn't eat on the bark of the tree.
There was definitely something they weren't happy about with my first batch, It was crunchy, and they nibbled the peanut chunks that were on the surface, and left the rest.
I think that I made it too stiff with the PoP, and they didn't like the cooking oil I used to make it more pliable.
I think I will mix a little more PB into this batch, and see if they still leave it.
I'm still hoping someone will have the opportunity to feed bon bons to a captive squirrel, and see the effects.

A few weeks ago I put a captured squirrel in the garage with the intention of feeding it PoP, not with any morbid intention of torture, but to simply verify if PoP was a quick, humane way to eliminate them. However my wife put her foot down and wouldn't let me do it, worried it was a bad example for the kids. So I had to drown it. Maybe I could just mail you a squirrel, Pappy, and you could try it. Although not sure the condition of the squirrel after a few days in the mail.

olpea, sorry about that, It would have cleared up a question for a lot of us.
With the feeling in this household, I would have had to protect it, so it could live long enough to eat a bon bon.
We do look forward to our grapes, pecans persimmons, etc.

I would certainly perform the experiment if someone could send me a bon bon. No kidding. I just don't have any made up right now and with my to-do list... There's no way. I have baby girl coming in 5 weeks. I am however, trapping the rodents to keep them out of my shed. Specimens are plentiful.

{{gwi:87248}}

I'm going to the store to-day and will get some PB and send you a batch.
It's cute like that, no wonder we have people overlooking the fact that they are destructive rodents.

will they fit through one of those chicken wire holes? I ain't opening that thing to deliver it personally!

thomis, A heaping tablespoon should be enough, per squirrel, If anyone thinks otherwise, please speak up, cuz I'm a novice at this.
You should be able to dump a glob on the side boards.

ace hardware has plaster of paris

also, check this link, looks like export opportunity for all of us:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8073202.stm

Here is a link that might be useful: link

The Plaster of Paris does not poison. After the animal drinks water the plaster of paris hardens and the animal can not have a bowl movement so it dies. The peanut butter is for taste.

Myra-nc,
Allow me to quote my self from earlier,
"That seems to be the false assumption. Also there is an assumption that while setting up it burns them.
I made a bon-bon last fall to see if it would ever set up even when water is added. The oil in the PB keeps that chemical reaction from ever happening with the PoP just like I figured it would. It's still soft. It has to be something else.
Try again.

I think it works as a mineral overdose like chuck60 mentions.
Try searching "Hypercalcemia". "

In fact I just made a bunch of bon-bons and the extras have been sitting out and the ones that have been out in the rain are just as soft as when I made them.
Plaster does not set up with oil, and once it has oil in it the chemical reaction that hardens it with water is not going to happen.

However rodents do die from too much calcium.

I never saw how long it took but I figured they were dying in their dens.

I watched a squirrel pick a bon bon off a post, climb on the post and drop it. Move on to the next post after eating the little bit it got off the first, eat a little and drop it.

So I built a squirrel feeder.

myk1, I wonder how big to make the bon bons, I take about a heaping tablespoon and plaster it on the bark of a tree about 5 feet off the ground. I've never found any on the ground, but they have either ignored, or couldn't find some that finally dried up. I have put pure pb on the outside of the bon bons to get them eaten.
I don't know what they eat, but I would guess that the lack of food would make the squirrels try any fruit, even green. The more hungry squirrels there are, the faster and more complete havoc on my nuts, grapes, persimmons.
If I can get them accustomed to eating bon bons, I'll saturate the area with them.
Catch 22, if they eat them they die....Oh well, I'll try.

Has anyone tried mixing PB and Decon (rat poison)?Maybe crushing the Decon into powder first?

hteder I think the fear is that with a poison like decon it could kill something unintented like the neighbors cat and is too dangeroud to take chances with. I have heard of some people in rural areas using rat poison in a tree to kill squirrels but I think you can get into lots o trouble if you are caught doing it.

Thanks

myk1 While I like the thought, and the fact that you did an experiment, I don't think it is very conclusive. Mammalian (at least) digestive systems tend to strip out the oils in the upper intestines, Bile salts are produced by the liver that are basically a soap, with a highly polar polypeptide component attached to a nonpolar cholesterol, after the oil is stripped out the PofP can set up and do its thing, blocking the intestine or what ever it does. If the oil could not be stripped away then there would be no way for the calcium to get into the blood anyways right?

Take it up with the people who make rodent poisons based on hypercalcemia.

If I ever catch a tree rat I'll feed it some bon-bons and then cut it open to see if anything set. Until then I'm going with what makes the most sense. And that is that rodents can't handle large doses of calcium coupled with plaster doesn't set when mixed wrong or with contaminants.

In NY state it is legal to use certain rodentcides for squirrels. I recieved a list of approved substaces a few years back which I've lost track of. I mixed something with oats on an epidemic year and killed a few squirrels without putting a dent in my problem.

Comment about Decon (warfarin). It's not a very powerful anticoagulant. Feed/farm stores sell more potent ones.

That said, feeding a rat poison to squirrels would probably be off-label and against the law. If someone's cat or dog was poisoned due to eating a bon bon or poisoned squirrel, it would probably mean trouble. Not trying to get on a high horse here, just offering some info.

With all the squirrel damage received this season, I've bought more traps. I'm currently trying rat traps. I've built a couple bases for the traps to sit on, and placed them in the trees. Baited the traps with peanut butter, but they haven't gone for it so far. Also bought another live trap, this one with a double door. I've noticed a few times squirrels can't seem to find the door on a single door trap.

Squirrels have stole enough sweet corn around here that one neighbor has also started trapping them. Another neighbor is guarding his sweet corn with a pellet gun. We're becoming a neighborhood watch area.

Olpea, that is not info, it is speculation. If NY State permits the poisoning of squirrels with common rodentcides as I was assured by the NYDEC a few years back my specultation is that it is probably legal elsewhere. Only CA is stricter on pesticide issues than NY. These questions are best answered by the DEC in any given state. Get it in writing, as I did.

If the poison is presented in a form not attractive to dogs or cats I don't see how it would be different then poisoning rats or mice. However if peanut butter and PP works, why bother?

Hman,

It may have seemed I was responding to your post, as my post followed yours, but I was actually responding to H_teder's post.

As you have checked and received a ruling from your state environmental regulation agency, I won't argue with it.

However, when I used to farm, we bought many buckets and 50lb. boxes of rodentcide. I never once saw mention of squirrels on the label. Always rats and mice. I went down to look at some Jaguar (brodifacoum) a powerful anticoagulant. It says nothing about squirrels. Likewise, some Salsbury Ropax bars I have left over, say nothing about squirrels.

You and I subscribe to many of the same trade magazines. I'm sure you've noticed the same rodenticides listed specifically for voles. Likewise there are specific poisons labeled for prairie dogs in Kansas. It would seem unusual for the EPA to list a blanket label for a product for all rodents. As you allude, I suspect there are specific poisons targeted to squirrels. But again, if the NYDEC takes a wide view, I'd go with it.

On a lighter side, I have to share this story. My wife was talking with a co-worker about our squirrel control. The co-worker asked how we got rid of them. My wife confessed, I trapped and drowned them. The co-worker said that was nothing, when she was little, her dad used to catch them in a live trap. Then bring them in the kitchen, and fill the sink to drown them.

Then he put them down the garbage disposal....

It is an interesting legal situation when the enforcers are constantly repeating the mantra "the label is the law" but apparently it is not that simple.

When a label specifically prohibits a use you can be confident that it is actually illegal to do so but apparently when it isn't about application to crops there may be some flexibility that exceeds the specific instructions on labels.

Even pertaining to crop application, the Imidan label, which says "not for use in residential areas", doesn't mean that such use is prohibited (illegal). Exactly what the meaning of that statement is could only be sorted out in a court of law, I'm afraid. Currently the NYDEC does not interpret the label as prohibiting Imidan use in residential areas.

So I guess the label is the law but not the whole law. It is the shades of legal interpretation that keep our lawyers so busy.

The people who make rodent poisons based on hypercalcemia, use a calcium product, and add an Anti-coagulant.
This was described as synergistic.
So, to be fast and effective, an anti-coagulant could be added to a bon bon.
SECONDARY POISONING IS UNLIKELY.
Is secondary poisoning possible either via ingestion of the livers of dead rodents, or via secondary ingestion of rodent baits?
Well, theoretically it is possible, but realistically, it is highly unlikely. LetÂs examine why.

First, most of the anticoagulant baits used for rodent control are formulated with low dosages of active ingredients ranging from 25 to 50 parts per million.
Even with primary poisoning or secondary ingestion of bait, a 20-pound dog, for example, would need to consume anywhere from a minimum of 1.6 to 96 ounces of our two most popular bait actives (brodifacoum and bromadiolone) to obtain the value needed for a single-dose poisoning. (A squirrel would be hard pressed to eat a 2oz bon bon, and the anti-coagulant would be further diluted by the PB and POP, at least 2 to 1, the problem would be to make the bon bon palatable.)
The range depends on the particular active ingredient, the dog species and several other factors.
Multiple feedings of these baits over a prolonged period would require significantly less dosages.
Still, consider the chances of the average clientÂs cat, dog, exotic animal, etc., encountering and entirely consuming enough rats on a periodic basis to accumulate enough poison to cause true secondary poisoning  not to mention enough rats, or squirrels dying above ground in areas accessible to a foraging non-target animal.
Moreover, I personally cannot imagine any companion animal with this type of appetite being taken care of as a "beloved pet" around a typical dwelling.
All this is not to say, however, that secondary poisoning is not possible.
The most likely scenario conducive to secondary poisoning would be in those cases of severe or chronic rodent infestations where many rodents (particularly rats) would be poisoned over the course of days or weeks.
This would need to be coupled with hungry dogs, cats, or some other free-ranging animal exhibiting a daily opportunistic foraging strategy

Squirrels have gotten 4 of my large McIntosh apples. I've caught one in a trap and hope to catch the other. Apples are bagged, but that isn't stopping them.

Pappy,

Although you make a good argument against secondary poisoning, there seem to be several Internet sites that warn about it when using anticoagulants. I don't have any first-hand experience witnessing secondary poisonings, but Googling "brodifacoum secondary poisoning" pulls up a lot of sites.

However on primary unintentional poisoning, I've witnessed it first-hand. When I was a kid, I lost an Airdale terrier to rodent bait. It was a puppy, and we weren't sure it got into the bait, until it was too late. However, I don't know if it was an anticoagulant poison, or something like zinc phosphide. Either way, with second generation anticoagulants that kill with a single feed, or zinc phosphide, I think there could be risk.

My original point was that with non-label use of rat bait, if an accidental poisoning happened, it could incur more liability than with PoP alone. Additionally it doesn't appear dogs and cats are as susceptible to hypercalcemia, as rodents are, so there is probably less danger of unintentional poisoning when PoP is used as the sole active ingredient.

If someone wants to test the plaster being hypercalcemia vs setting up, substitute the plaster for calcium capsule contents.
I think I only have tablets or I'd do it since the squirrels have cleaned me out of bon bons and I need to make a new batch.

olpea You are right, bon bons are less dangerous,without the anti-coagulant, and if they do the job, it's no use guilding the lily.

This forum is so fantastic, I need to spend more time here.

myk1, I did not mean to imply that your final conclusion was wrong, merely that that line of reasoning presented didn't take us to it. In truth I do not know enough about rodents to say. I use lethal traps on rodents, and the occasional stick when one is foolish enough to get too close.

On a different note, tree rats are territorial, and here anyways they issue forth a kind of rapid fire chirping that tapers off in volume and is followed by some random cheeps as part of there territorial defenses, could we tape that or get a hold of a recording of that sound and play it back to ward them off? When I kill one there is typically another in its place within 6 hours, moving in from the parkstrip down the street, but I rarely see them in pursuit of one another, or in any type of physical confrontation, so surely they must have some means of holding other tree rats at bay.

I've hunted squirrels for a long time and use calls so I know their language very well.
They do get in conflicts with each other and they'll come from pretty far away to help one giving a distress call.
I think their territorialness is more like a personal space thing so they are quick to move in and their fighting is more like a brotherly fight, where they can do it but nobody else can.

I've also used my calls to try to get them out of my tree and it has never worked.
Although I have had some of the braver ones challenge me knowing I was so much bigger. That was the last straw and when I declared war.

I was thinking more about killing off the inhabitants and running speakers 6 times a day to decrease the likelihood of anyone moving in.

"running speakers 6 times a day to decrease the likelihood of anyone moving in."

That should do it. It's likely a new neighbor won't move in within earshot. You may even chase some of your existing neighbors out :-)

I think you're just as likely to draw them in to see what's worth protecting.

Also notice they flick their tails when barking. With no movement they'll probably start ignoring the calls.

Olpea this is sound you hear anyways, anyone for animatronic tree rats?