These cherries do best in sandy clay,..good drainage, the more you pamper the worse they get.

It should be ok. If I am not mistaken they prefer not to be babied too much. I know evans cherry prefers less fertile soil (dont think evans was used in breeding), and i vaguely remember reading about many sour cherries prefering less fertile soil as well.. Give it a top dressing of manure and it should be ok.

As for mulch, I use wood chips or leaves.

When I planted mine this year,actually two,one was on Gisela root stock and the other on it's own roots,the sod was dug out about two feet around and about twelve inches deep.I didn't amend with anything and the trees are budding.
Wood chips can be used for mulch.I used some Pine bark that was left over in a bag.I waited for a couple weeks to fertilize and used,I think,Miracle Gro organic,but anything like 10-10-10 will work.
Your plan looks fine.These trees seem fairly carefree.
Where is yours coming from? Brady

I am also in zone 3 Minnesota. I planted 6 Carmine Jewel an couple of years ago. Before planting, I worked in about 1/3 of a 5 gallon pail of aged compost for each planting hole. A very small amount (maybe 2 Tbls) of 10-10-10 was also added. The plants were tiny, but the prepared hole was about 2 foot across and about 15 inches deep.

Instead of landscape cloth, I put flat pieces of cardboard down 1st, and mulch over that with free wood chips that I get from the local power company. There are enough spots along the cardboard edges for water to seep through. Very few weeds grow in the chips . Besides being a weed barrier, the cardboard stops the wood chips from stealing nitrogen for the decomposing process.

What I like best about this method is that over time the chips will eventually decompose into compost. So will the cardboard. I can then do a new layer of cardboard and chips. No need to try to pull up buried plastic.

I planted the whole romance series cherry varieties (2 each CJ, Juliet,romeo,cupid,valentine,crimson passion)in the spring of 2011. they were measly 2 inch plugs that I planted in my lawn , only thing added was bone meal to the hole which was about 4 inch diameter.......I staked them so I wouldn't run over them with the lawn mower and simply mowed the grass around them(the grass grows up to the trunks). Most of the trees are 4 feet almost 5 feet with the exception of a few. Needless to say they do not require much love :)

glenn, thats the same year I planted my evans and I hav yet to see that much growth. One is more exposed so I can assume thats why it is growing a bit slower then the other.

The taller one is two feet and growing very well but no where near the growth you stated. I am aware that evans is different then the romance series, but I am sure the growth should be a bit better.

I fertilized mine when first planted and just ended up with tender growth that attracted scads of aphids. No fertilizer the next two year and no aphids. Also, don't water these too much (I haven't at all) - they were bred on the prairies so aren't water-lovers.

Thank you all for the informative and quick responses!
My tree is coming from Gurneys. I'm not sure how tall it will be, but the say "well rooted and shipped in a 3" pot".
Glad that they're not a fussy plant. Would the cherry aphids be less attracted to manure than say 10-10-10 commercial product?
Great forum, thanks!

I forgot to mention,that I also have one from Gurney's.If your plant was like mine,it will be small,probably less than a foot,but they grow fast.
I think I had it for about a year.It's still in a pot.I'm waiting for the plant to get bigger to transplant in the ground or I may keep growing this one in successively bigger containers.There is a video about one of theirs in a half wine barrel I think.
Here is a picture of mine.It is in a 1/2 gallon nursery pot,is about 18 inches and has put on about 3 inches of growth this Spring. Brady

Spray for the Aphids and put in a protective barrier so the rabbits dont girdle the trunk in the winter and spring.

I planted 4 CJ in '11 that I'd ordered from Gurney's and one was on its way out when it arrived. It did not survive two days I don't think, and so I called Gurney's and they said it was too late for a replacement that year, and that they'd send me a replacement the next spring. But they were sold in pairs, so they sent two in '12.

Mine all came as twigs, I don't think any were over 12" and most smaller than that. But they took off good.

I think I mixed Up-Start in the water I gave them when I planted them, and that was it. I also did nothing in terms of protecting them in the winter and I think I only noticed one bush with one twig that winter-killed.

I throw out some 10-10-10 in early April now that they're bigger. Below is a picture from last June.

As an aside, I ordered two Crimson Passion from HoneyberryUSA too late for last year, so they'll come this spring.

I just got an email from Bernis at Honeyberry saying they'd ship in a week. We exchanged emails a couple times, and I told her that I was looking forward to seeing how these larger CP do.

She said "...the Crimson Passion are harder to propagate and get established. This yearâÂÂs larger plants are only about 14â tall, but yes, every little bit helps. The Carmine Jewel take off like a shot in comparison. But our 3 year old Passions are doing fine".

So, I hope I didn't get spoiled by how easy the CJ's grew for me.

Anyway, I'm real happy with the communication you get from HoneyberryUSA even during this really busy time. Nice people.

Wished I had ordered more than one tree now!
I can already taste the cherry pie!
Iowajer, you have a nice looking orchard started, and
I'm glad to see your dutiful owl standing guard, lol.
Thanks for all the tips!

tomfg,

I had a few cherries last year from two of the CJ's, but not all the fruit that set held on. I think it was poor pollination. It seemed that there was very little pollinator activity going on around my CJ's and I attributed it (rightly or wrongly...) to my larger Early Richmond tree sitting right next to them. I felt like the li'l bees were just ignoring them in favor of the ER. (I picked 30 gallons off the ER last year!!)

That owl doesn't have much impact after a day or so, seems the birds sit right up there by it, even if I move it around some. But I have found that the birds really hate rock and roll, so I've got a radio that I have running in my ER from dawn to dusk!

So..looks like you can down size your sod circle form 5 foot to 5 inches, since it's in a 3" pot.

Growing for one season in a larger pot, especially in your cold climate would get you a faster established plant.
I've done that with my little Evans cherry plugs. OH...Evans in your climate you might like, this one is the most vigorous and productive for a northern pie cherry!

{{gwi:87744}}

As for rabbits, I put up a barrier two years ago when I saw rabbits nibbling the tips of my cherry bushes, but forgot to this winter. They came into the backyard frequently and did nibble some of the branch tips, but I had no issues with them chewing the main trunk. Maybe they aren't interested in the bark, or maybe these cherries are just too bushy for them to get at it. Anyway, here's a pic of my Carmine Jewel in late March -- you can see the rabbit tracks around it. They just nibbled some branch tips, I'll consider it free pruning.
{{gwi:87745}}

Wow konrad thats an Evans?

Any tips for getting them to grow well?

These are not fussy,..just let them do their own thing, especially in my borderline zone, if you push them too much,..more die back,..I let them grow in grass, [competition] ..better for hardening off, let it grow as a shrub, multy stem.

Just wanted to say that I received my Carmine Jewel from Gurney's today, it's 13" tall, has leaves, and appears healthy.
Seeing how it's not done freezing around here yet, and it's leaved out, I'll keep it inside for a while.

I re-potted it in a bigger pot, but ended up using some potting soil with a little vermiculite in, for the lack of a better idea at the spur of the moment.
Will the potting soil be detrimental to the tree?
If so, I can re-pot it with some black dirt from the garden,
and mix it with a little sand?

Which brings me back to when I plant it permanent, whether not to amend the soil or not. My garden soil has a PH around 8, which is on the high end, but my veggies seem to do pretty well. Not sure what the PH in the yard is, but it's heavy soil. which makes me wonder if I should create some "sandy loam", which someone said the Carmine's prefer.
I know some said more or less to "just plant it", but perhaps they have sandy loam, lol.
Any input welcomed. Thanks, Tom

If it's kept in a container for a length of time,say more than six months,the soil should be light and breathable.From what I've read vermiculite retains water and potting soil a lot of times is peat based,which also holds water.This may not be helpful for the plant's roots in the long run.I use a conifer/peat moss/perlite mix in about a 60/20/20 mix for containers.
8 pH does seem a little high.Maybe some Aluminum Sulfate may help.Some sand added to the soil couldn't hurt,but the roots are going to meet the real thing eventually as they grow out. Brady

Thanks for the reply Brady. I plan on planting the Carmine when the frost danger is over..... which is usually around June 1st. I didn't use the "water retention" type of potting soil, but understand that potting soil could be a problem long term.
In researching the whole "amend" or not amend question, it seems split about 50 / 50, but I'm leaning towards not amending the soil around the roots, but rather add some compost on top of the soil around the tree, as this bit from the "U of M" suggest.
"U of M
Do not heavily amend the soil from the hole at planting time as this can create a âÂÂflower potâ effect, where the roots never leave the amended soil. Plants become root-bound with poor anchorage and low drought resistance. When amending soil, add compost or dampened, shredded peat moss to original soil so that at least half the resulting mixture is original soil. Or, instead of amending the soil, mulch well with compost after planting. Do not add fertilizer to the soil at planting."

I think I'll do the mayonaise jar soil test for fun tomorrow and see if I can get a better idea of my soil type.
Next time I get to the big city I'll see if I can get a PH tester kit. In the mean time, I'll read up on Aluminum Sulfate. Seems like my mother uses that on her indoor lime tree some times. Thanks, Tom

My three Carmine Jewels and two Crimson Passions came from SLN and are all leafing out beautifully. The CPs are exceptionally vigorous. They average 26" tall with the branches starting 6" up from the ground.

The CJs average 30" tall with the branches starting halfway up. They look like trees, not bushes. There seems to be little nubs on their trunks, as though they were pruned at those points. I'm not expert enough to say for certain.

Can a CJ that looks like a tree in youth grow into a shrub? Are these two bush cherries known to start out looking so different from each other? I would really like CJ to grow into a shrub.

(Sometimes SLN writes back to me, sometimes they don't...)

Thanks --

Bernard

Bernard, your CJ will end up looking like a bush. I just went and measured mine, it is 63" tall and within 6" or 8" of the ground it has already grown into 8 main trunks, or branches. I don't know if yours will put out main trunks below where it begins to branch now (halfway up, or about 15"), but even if it doesn't, it will certainly branch heavily from where it branches now. So once it's fully grown, even if the bottom 15" is a single trunk, that's still going to look like a bush and the bare trunk portion would be completely hidden from view. I would suspect as well that it will put out new branches on what is now the bare part of the trunk, as it's natural growth pattern is very bush-like.

tomfg, I would spend the next month getting your tree used to the outdoors. If it has been greenhouse or indoor grown so that it isn't used to UV light, then you will have to very gradually acclimatize to sunlight so it doesn't burn. If it has been field grown in the sun up until now, then it is already used to sunlight and I would put it outside on any day I wasn't expecting a hard freeze. If you grow it inside for the next month, windowglass screens out a lot of UV and you risk sunburning the plant by directly going from a long indoor grow directly to the garden.

If most plants grow fine in your garden, then I wouldn't worry about amending the soil with aluminum sulfate. You run the risk of acidifying the ground when it isn't even necessary. Also, if you can grow trees and bushes in your yard, then you don't need to do any special soil amendments for a CJ.

Don555, Thanks for the input! Good point on the UV rays.
Right now it's sitting in a 70 deg. F room, basking with house plants by a grow lite. The weather is brutal today with 40 mph gust, cold, and wet at times, so I think I'll leave it in tonight!
Regarding amending, I forgot to do the mayonaise jar soil test today........ got busy building a bluebird house.
I'll try to get a PH kit and do an actual check of the soil where I plan on planting the Carmine. Thanks!

Don555 --

Thanks so much for addressing my specific concerns.

I recently enhanced drainage in the cherry area by auguring a hole 2' deep and 8" in diameter, inserting a PVC tube 4" in diameter, drilled with lots of holes, and then filling the hole around the tube with rocks. Good thing, because I overwatered this afternoon and now the drainage pit is full.

It was a case of loving not wisely, but too well. I won't do it again.

Bernard

just a heads up to other prospective buyers, I just bought a carmine jewel from michiganbulb on sale for $12.99 with free shipping, enter coupon 0826532 at checkout for the free s/h. they call it a ruby red cherry but in the description it says its a carmine jewel and theyre owend by the gurneys people so im guessing it should be legit http://www.michiganbulb.com/product/Ruby_Red_Pie_Cherry

Bernard, please don't kill that cherry with kindness! Remember that these were bred in Saskatoon, SK, a semi-arid climate, and about zone 2b. Your natural precip. in Ohio is probably double what they get in SK per year, so I'd be shocked if you needed to water that cherry at all. I'm pretty certain the prairie breeders didn't provide supplemental water to their rows of cherries, I think they just left them to Mother Nature's whims to simulate how they would fare in a U-pick operations in Saskatchewan.

I'm a half-zone higher (3a) and one province to the west, and I've had CJ plus the Romance series growing for 3 years (this will be year 4), and I've never watered them, except once during an especially dry autumn, just before freeze-up of the soil. These were not bred to be tender ornamentals, they were bred to be northern prairie-tough fruits. Throw away the watering can and give them the abuse they expect :-)

Random pic, taken today, this is my six-foot tall but still young "Romeo" cherry from the Romance series. Anytime Spring wants to show up so these plants can leaf out and flower, is okay by me....

{{gwi:87746}}

Hi, Don555 and all -- So to quote Hyacinth Bucket, we are unanimous that CJ and its siblings don't need much care. I, for one, will not water mine again, unless it's really obvious they need it, like if we have super dry weather and their leaves start drooping.

Besides 3 CJs, 2 CPs, and 2 Bali Evans, I also bought 2 Meteors from SLN. Their advice on watering is a little different from what I read on this forum. From the SLN handbook:

WATERING
This is undoubtedly the most important [last three words in italics] aspect in establishing any new tree or shrub. After planting, follow-up watering is a must. We recommend 5-10 gallons of water per tree regularly (regularly might mean daily, three times a week, or a good soaking every weekend) for the entire first growing season; especially during the dry months of late July through mid-September. Rain in the forecast does not excuse you from your watering chores.

And so on.

Looks like the difference between what's advised here and what's in the handbook may be the needs of new transplants versus established plants. In any case, as Don555 says, these cherries were developed in a semi-arid climate. My area actually gets an average of 37.97 inches of rain per year. It looks like young sour cherries may not need any watering.

In my determination to follow the directions in the handbook, I didn't look at them critically. Thanks for bringing the excess watering issue to my attention.

Don555, your and everyone's comments are extremely interesting and helpful to me.

Bernard

I guess I should add... if they were bare-root when you got them, I would keep them watered enough (not soaked) for the first couple months to allow them to establish a good root system. Mine came potted and nicely rooted, so I would have watered well when I first planted them to settle the loose dirt, but that's it.

how does carmine jewel flavor compare to romeo or cp for you guys that have both?