next pic

next pic I used duck tape thinking I would get a better hold of this tree.

Here is the last pic I took so far. I will post more as more happens. It's been raining for a day now. I wish I could have gotten out there and brushed the mold off the scions. I will try and get down there in the morning so the next days rain will wash the bleach and mold away. I her of guys dunking the scion wood in a 1-10 bleach water solution for a half of a minute befor putting them into the fridge in the winter. I think I will try that next time. I only had one damp paper napkin to about 20 scions.

That is pretty cool. I hope it works out for you. Another thing you can try if it doesn't is to just let the tree send out its own adventagious (sp?) shoots and then graft onto those when they are pencil thick, or even bud graft in summer if you can get live scion wood.

I don't see much hope with grafts like this,..grafting on waterspouts next year would be my Joice.

There is lots of moisture on the cuts and where the scion sliped in. I know he wont need all those. I just put extra on. He will be able to take care of that tree better with the new fruit wood down in a more reachable are. I will tell him to not cut the water shoots till we see what grows, thanks I didn't think of that. I didn't want to use the basment sealer. He was warming up his bees wax and it never melted. It must not be bees wax? It went to a crumbly paste that was falling apart as I tried to put it on. It was going to rain so I ran to my house and grabed the tar.

Bees wax would be better, try to stay away from tar. Best for this is the Dr. Farwell grafting seal.
Let us know how you make out,...sure, the more scion the better on large trunk like this, I usually find on older wood the bark is dry,....you have the opposite, that really helps!
I'm sure you know, just to keep one graft on eventually, make sure to tie it to a piece of stick or so for a couple of years otherwise it can brake off.

The nice thing about grafting to water sprouts, graft heal nicely in one season.

Here is a link that might be useful: Konrad's modified bark grafting

Hate it. Patience is a virtue- even if the tree lives it will be so ugly for years to come. I prefer to prune the old tree open and work with watersprouts to replace the big scaffolds over time. Takes 10 years to complete the job but you get first new fruit in 2-3 years and the tree never looks butchered.

This tree lost some scafold branches further up and was never pruned. It had two big rotten areas three foot long on both limbs that I cut off. There was vigar growing around those spots but I just couldn't see grafting above those spots. He is an old man. It's better that he gets vigar down low and doesn't have his graft twenty foot up in the air. It was uglyer before. I probley should have just cut the tree down, but this was his idea, and his tree. He doesn't have much time.

You have the details, I'm just looking at a picture. Hope the grafts take.

It looks very similar to what I would have done. I would have used a less sticky tape, a different sealant, and only one variety of scion (but many pieces like you) per cut.

But otherwise I think it looks great.

Thanks murky,
I would have used bees wax and that was the plan. I don't think the stuff he had was bees wax. it never melted. I have just a little bit of wax and grafting tape, but I am going to graft my trees and I had to order it from on line. I see the comercial guys useing asfalt tar so it cant be all that bad. they also butcher thier trees right down and graft all the limbs when changing veriety too. They say parcial crop the next season too. I hope they take and grow three foot! The deer are over there eating all the branches that are on the ground. I ran down there yesterday with a bucket of warm water and brushed the mold off the scions. It rained real hard and they realy weren't that moldy anymore. I put a Meijer's plastic shopping bag over them with the corners cut off for ventilation and covered them up. It's going to get cold at night for the next week. Then I will take that bag off so it doesn't promote mold. I just want to try and keep the frost off the scions. I am not sure if that matters or not.

I'm not sure how much experience you have, so if this sounds condescending please forgive me its not my intent. But you know it is common for apple scions to have natural fuzz on them that is not mold.

Are you sure they are moldy. If they don't look bad, I wouldn't mess with them by spraying a bleach solution. They are out in the fresh air now.

I got 8 feet of growth on some plum bark grafts from last spring and the biggest limb I cut was less than half the size of those.

Wow, eight foot of grouth! Only the darker variety scions had what looked like mold. The local orchard let me go out in February and cut scion wood from their trees for free. The guy I was speaking with was in the office by their green houses and he wasn't sure exactly what was in each row, but he knew the different variaties that they have. so I grabed some from different rows hopeing to get a mixed bag. I did buy some on line too, granny smith, honey crisp, rhode island greening, and my neighbor is trying to get us some northern spy. I don't know much about hands on but I have been reading every night for the last six months. I see pictures of some scions that look moldy like the ones that I thought were moldy. When I got down there the rain apeared to have washed that all away. All I did was brush them with a soft paint brush and warm water. In my close up pictures I could see where my hands were when I put them in the tree. That's when I figured they had gotten moldy. Then I researched moldy scion wood and read about bleach solutions with storage, and how to brush it on them to get rid of mold. I will post a close up. You tell me what you think. This was my first grafting.

That top on the one scion is a bit smashed. I was pounding some of these in. They took alot of force to get them in. I was happy with how tight they were. Birds can land on these and probably not move them. I think they would break first. It took two hands to push the ones with a bud on top into the rine. I know they have lots of buds on them but I was thinking this big tree was going to push alot of grouth! Ihave seen four in one trees done like this on smaller scale. They are going to get bushy. I wonder if I could colect scions from them in the winter? I might end up doing more trees in the near future. If this turns out other friends are going to want their trees done, of course not quite like this.

I could screw a flange down in the middle and screw in a piece of galvanized pipe to brace with. What do you think? It will be ugly strong! lol

I wouldn't do that with the pipe, you'll be making a fresh wound and either leaving a hole to collect water when you remove it, or leaving behind a steel gore inside the wood for hte next unlucky guy who tries to cut it with a chainsaw.

Trees defend themselves by compartmentalizing. They wall off the wounded area.

On another note, I highly recommend that you take measures to keep track of what varieties are going where. So I'd look for a source of scions for future grafting other than these ones that are now jumbled.

There are all sorts of reasons you'll want to know what you have in the future. It can help you diagnose problems, know if they are developing normally, when to expect them to ripen and how to treat them, whether they are disease reistant. When it comes time to prune it would be nice to be able to preferentially treat the varieties you like.

If friends want scionwood it would be nice to give them a variety they'll like and at least know if it is early or late ripening or whether it is usefull for cooking or fresh eating and that sort of thing.

How would you brace these once they are bigger? I was thinking of taking the pipe off after a couple years. I read that the grafts are easy to break the first year to pick off any fruit. I could tie them together I guess.
I have been keeping track of the scions. I just will have to let them grow apples to figure what is what all I can do with these are call them mistery scion 1, 2, and 3. They are either fuji, gala, macintash, or yellow delicious. I took them from seperate rows at the orchard. The guy wasn't sure what row is what. I can go back there when there when more people are working and figure it out better. I posted tags I made on the other page I have. This guy knows he has mistery apples of different vareities. He is getting spy scions. Those will be taged spy for sure. They will go out on the other limb. I put six grafts out there on 1/2" wood too. He is just glad that we could put comercial type varieties on his tree.

You might want to try this wedge grafting on heavy stock, makes better cambium contact.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wedge graft

Another one on peach.

Here is a link that might be useful: Graft on large stock.

Ya I could try that, I watched those already a couple times. Thanks for your sugestions. I like hearing all advice. I am not sure if I could cut the scion that well. I could practice, and the more I do the more it will become easier. I had bark grafting, or rine grafting in mind when I took the scions down there. I am a bit worried about using the tar. I wish his wax would have worked. I don't think the tar was thin enough to flow down into the grafts. It might when it gets hot outside, but by then it should be growing. I was watching the English gentalmen's videos too. Thats were I got the idea of rine grafting.

Johnny, wondering...how is the take on your bark graft?

double

This post was edited by konrad___far_north on Fri, May 17, 13 at 0:17

double

This post was edited by konrad___far_north on Fri, May 17, 13 at 0:16

Would like updated pics...

Johnny,..just wondering if any scions took?

They would have if the bar of bees wax wasn't soap. When he tried to melt it, it never melted. I told him we needed bees wax and he said he had some. The whole thing got botched. It started to rain and in panic I put basement tar sealer on them. That melted latter on a hot sunny day and seeped into the scion cuts causing them to die. I ordered northern spy for him this year. I am also bringing my grafting sealant and we are going to put nine pieces of wood on maybe 12 grafts. He will get some takes on these. We will put some on the water shoots that came out around the trunk below the cuts made last year. He is moving anyway, but he wants to do this before he leaves. He has Lou Garrets disease and has to get into a condo. This like one of his things on his bucket list. I learned from that. Now I know if I am going to graft to bring everything myself. Last year nothing was planed when we grafted his tree. It was at the spur of the moment. He found out what I was going to do to my trees and all the sudden he wanted to do his with nothing bought. I told him I had some scion I could give him but he would need to get the sealant. He said he had bees wax so we went for it only to find out he didn't have the proper sealant. I will do a follow up after grafting this year. A lot of this was my fault because I never had grafted before, and I was a rooky! If I was in that situation again I would have pulled the scions out and never used the tar!

Johnny,

You can prevent water get into your scions by taping up two bamboo sticks against the trunk and cover it with a big clear trash bag and tape the bottom end against the trunk. No rain will get in.

Tony

Nothing lost,...after a year it will get better and finally you get to graft onto the water sprouts as suggested with much better results,..good luck!