I planted the tree at the line above the roots - is that right? After I had it in the ground, I noticed the other line below the graft and then I started thinking maybe that's the line I should have planted it at - but the "root stock" is about a third the length of the entire tree, so I didn't think that much should be buried below the soil. There was also a green shoot coming out from the bottom of the root stock that I broke off. I had to pot it up temporarily before I could get it in the ground so some of the buds had just broken and this shoot started growing as well - I assumed it was a "sucker" from the root stock. Did I do right breaking it off?

I'm sure I'm making mountains out of molehills, but this is my first time dealing with a fruit tree and I'm woefully ignorant about fruit trees. I would imagine planting depth is critical - this isn't a perennial you'd dig up and move around. It's staying where it's planted for a long time, so I want to get it right!

It also came with a little bag of food with this huge warning on it about "boron" and how it should only be used for fruit trees and it's dangerous in too high a level - can anyone explain what that was about? I want to garden 100% organically - altho I realize not everything organic is good and not everything "chemical" is bad - I simply want to keep things as environmentally friendly as I can. It's one of the reasons I want to grow my own fruit and veggies - to keep things as organic as possible. The boron warning has me spooked now!

Thanks!

Lisa

If you want organic to have a chance of working learn now so you can be proactive. If you rely on neglect and then reacting after you have a problem organic probably won't work.

I don't know why you're worried about boron. It is needed for plants. The warning sounds more like, "If you have high concentrations of boron don't use this".
Don't use the plant food if you're spooked.

I grafted Pixie Crunch to my tree last year and can't wait to try it. Recommendations from the more experienced on this board have been good.

As for apples grown organically...well, let's just say that's not common. Apples are bothered by a variety of pests and diseases.

The Fruitnut

Brandon - I realize I'm going to have to spray the tree and do other things - I simply stress that I want to stay organic when I post because sometimes people jump right to the heavy duty pesticides and other nasty chemicals and to be very straightforward, I'd rather not grow something rather than have to use harsh chemicals to keep it alive and/or producing. As I said, one of the many reasons I'm growing things myself (besides the simple joy I get from gardening) is to avoid "unnecessary" chemicals. I thought long and hard about getting a fruit tree because of that reason, but I figured I'd give it a go and see how things turn out.

I'm sure I'll be back here, panicked about something or other as this little tree grows! Thanks for the info everyone.

Lisa

"Gurney’s® deluxe-grade trees (including Li’l-BIGTM trees) are the best your money can buy! You get perfectly sized trees, that arrive pre-pruned for your convenience and marked at the proper planting depth, for excellent results every time.

Every deluxe-grade tree also includes:

1) 2 oz. of Quik-CalTM Pelletized Calcium to enhance your fruit quality;

2) One 12-oz. bag of Garden Solutions® Fruit Tree Food Starter Formula, formulated to meet the needs of young trees;

3) Our premium tree guard to protect the trunk from gnawing pests, mowers and weed trimmers; and

4) "Backyard Horticulture for Fun and Profit – How to Make $10,000 in Your Spare Time", our newly published booklet. Describes everything you need to know to make as much as $1000 per week from your backyard garden. Chock full of helpful ideas on how to locate farmers’ markets, popular produce varieties, packaging, pricing, displays and how to design a planting for this type of production.

If you order one of our L’il-BIG tree sizes you also receive our innovative fruit tree support."

You also should've got a planting guide that tells you the depth and is available at their website.

I agree, toss the food.

The reason organic apple growing is treated with suspicion is mainly because of curculio. Basically the only organic method is barriers. They are first out when the apples are too small to bag. A barrier spray like Surround would help, but curculio need moisture to be active, they return to the ground if it's too dry. Surround gets washed off with rain.

If you're proactive with barriers and any organic controls you can come up with to keep their populations low you're in business. Even if they get a few of your apples before you can bag the rest and the curculio hits will be thinnings.
But if they get so bad that they're always wiping you out even organic groups say it's a tough cookie to crumble.

The good news is that once your beyond the curculio you already have the codling moth and apple maggot barriered.

If "organic" means do nothing until it's too late, well then it's too late. The same generally goes for disease. Keep the problems from becoming problems and there won't be a problem.

For my part of the country codling moth is a huge issue, with touches of powdery mildew and a smidgeon of rust thrown in for diversion. Fireblight can never be ignored with apples or, especially, pears.

I think every one of us would love to be able to grow fruit without spraying for bad bugs, foul fungi and wayward weeds. (Sorry- I can't resist alliteration ... ) But the downside of organic can be capitulation. What I'm saying here is that "organic" doesn't always work, especially when a person doesn't have full time to devote to it. Bugs, fungi, and weeds can get out of hand.

When they threaten to do that it can be wise to resort promptly to non-organic alternatives, and doing that early means doing less of it. It's a stitch in time situation. And as long as I'm on this soapbox I'll even go so far as to say that not all human chemical inventions are going to be net disruptive, or we wouldn't use medicines.

That said, the convenience, the near-instant results, the economy, of boxes of stuff that save our fruit, is seductive, and we all love the easy out.

Here in western Montana spotted knapweed is destroying what's left of open space. It's an invasive specie that was inadvertently imported with wheat (brought from Russia by Mennonite immigrants, if legend is to be believed) but which was not accompanied by the parasites which fed on its stems. The wheat, being rust resistant, thrived and probably saved American farmers and bakers. The knapweed thrived too. It was spread by cars, birds, animals and backpackers into every pristine drainage around. We organic types firmly resisted spraying back in the 1970's- and we missed a great chance to stop a blight. Today we're hopin' and a-prayin' that importing the weevil that does destroy knapweed doesn't have it's own downside.

Oh, what a tangled web!! So it goes.

Good luck,

Mark

I find these boron warnings to be a little confusing. They should never have put enough boron in the fertilizer to be toxic. Most likely they are just warning you that if you already have high levels of boron in your soil, adding the supplement they sent could push it high enough to be toxic. Still, I doubt they sent you enough fertilizer that if properly spread, it would push your apple over the cliff. My general rule with yard and garden is not to add boron unless there are symptoms of deficiency, which I've never seen in the yard.

In the chemistry sense, boron is an inorganic element (does not contain carbon). In the marketing sense of the current "organic" fad, boron is probably acceptable as an "organic" fertilizer as it is a naturally occurring element and I doubt it is really modified in a factory to create the form used for fertilizer--could be wrong, though, as the "organic" rules often seem arbitrary.

And I must admit I didn't read the pamphlet as I had no intention of growing apples for "profit". My bad.

Since I only have one, small tree, I'll try to keep an eye out and manually take care of any insects (am I kidding myself that I can do this?), but I'm not 100% against using something if I have to, I'd simply like to use the least amount of stuff I have to. I have some dwarf blueberry bushes planted in front of the tree (I think I gave everything plenty of growing room) and I have an asparagus patch and am growing lettuce in front of that, to the side of where the tree is planted. My neighbor does have some kind of apple tree in their yard, however, I have no idea what it is, and they don't do anything to it and don't harvest the fruit at all. I don't notice that it grows much fruit actually.

This will really be an education for me! I've always wanted to grow a fruit tree and learn more about it. I guess I'm gonna learn now!

And on that note, what do you mean by "bagging" the apples? I've read to use something called phosmet (Imidan) or carbaryl (Sevin) - the first one I've never heard of while I have heard of the latter. Are these serious chemicals or something that will break down and go away "naturally"? As I said, if I spray the tree, I'm probably going to hit the blueberries too and any "runoff" will leach into the asparagus and the lettuce. I'm in a small, urban lot and space is at a premium - you have to tuck stuff in where ever you can!

Thanks for the advice - you guys obviously know your stuff!

Lisa

Bagging is putting ziplock bags over the apples to form a barrier as Myk mentioned. Generally one or two early sprays is required before the apples are big enough to bag. You can search the forum and get lots of details.

Imidan, while commonly used by folks here on the forum, would be one you would probably define as "serious". The label says it's "not for use in residential areas". I'll leave the interpretation of that phrase up to you. It's got some nice features, in that it does a bang up job on on some serious apple pests, while at the same time being somewhat easy on beneficial/predator insects. The bad thing about it , is that it takes a lower dose to kill humans, than other later generation insecticides. Keep in mind, like Imidan, most of the stuff under your sink is also lethal if you chug it. Were talking degrees here.

Carbaryl, while very common, is not really that human friendly either. It can cause mite outbreaks in apples if used repeatedly. Carbaryl will also thin, or remove all, your apples if sprayed within 30 days of bloom.

Since you are very concerned about toxicity, a pyrethroid is an option. Triazicide - Once and Done insect killer is available at Walmart. Pyrethroids are later generation insectides and are generally safer than organophosphates(phosmet) or carbamates (carbaryl). Triazicide is labeled for apples and can be used up to two weeks before harvest. It can also cause mite outbreaks.

You can also use Surround, if you don't mind spraying your fruit with aluminun, and it's organic. The success against curculio is somewhat variable.

Pretty much all modern pesticides break down, they are designed that way. Imidan has a half-life of 7 days in soil. Sevin has a half-life of 6 days.

Not at all. One small tree would be easy to bag the fruits on, easy to clean up after, easy to pick off and destroy egg layed fruits before the bugs multiply for next year and easy to fill with enough traps to make a difference.
I got by for between 5-10 years organically getting enough off my espaliers before the bugs found their way from my neighbors' neglected trees which became more neglected as the owners aged.
My main apple tree is too big to bag and in the future most of my trees will be that size, plus I've never had that much get up and go to go out and bag. I've only bagged to get a couple of plums and then borers killed that tree.

I see you may have the same issues where no matter how good you clean up your bugs your neighbor is breeding more. It probably does grow fruit and they fall early as something eats on it and then they complete their life cycle in the ground.
Other people's neglected "organic" trees are a real problem for residential areas.
With a small tree you could probably get by with an early spray or two until you could bag. Then you would only have disease to worry about.
You can also use traps to tell you when it's time to spray so you're only spraying when the bugs are around.

It's fairly likely you can't find Imidan, but possible you can it depends on your area and how hard you look. I'm seeing very good results with Spectracide Once and Done on curculio and I think Malathion will work on my apple maggot, both are supposed to work well on codling moth.
Codling moth, apple maggot and curculio are my only constant problems so that's all I worry about.

Imidan is pretty serious but so are some naturals like nicotine water. I would gladly use Imidan instead of the Once and Done because it does work and pyrethroids are hard on beneficials.
You would have to read the labels to see what crops the different chemicals are approved for, don't be afraid to peel back the label before you buy.

There are also some newer organic pesticide(s) you can look into. But it's been a long time since I was trying to grow organic apples so I'm not that familiar with them and what they work on.

Chuck