I grew Kiowa in central CA by Fresno. No dog will mess with those thorns. The berries are huge. I don't remember seeds but they aren't real sweet. Still a good berry and add a little sugar if needed.

They could be planted now with regular watering and some shade until rooted in. Either shade cloth or floating row cover. I just transplanted some chard under 4 layers of row cover.

It sounds to me like the spot where you want to grow raspberries is good bramble habitat, and they should do well in that location. My experience has been that they like morning sun, and some shade in the afternoon. We have a patch of Heritage everbearing red raspberries that has been producing fruit for 15 years, and is still going strong. I generally transplant volunteers in the spring, after they have begun to leaf out, but before they get very high. I think they can be planted now, but they might need a little shade provided for a week or so to prevent wilting.

You may want to try Wineberries. They are even more vigorous than normal raspberries, so you won't need to baby them any, though they may take over the world if you let them. They have nasty thorns- my brother planted them in a part of his yard that kids were crossing through, to discourage such incursions.

Edible landscaping is one of the few places which sell them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wineberry at EL

I'll second Bob's recommendation for wineberries. I bought mine from Oikos Tree Crops, and I was very happy with the quality.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wineberries at Oikos

Not sure of your basic premise. If the chickens are inside a fenced area, how will the dogs bother them?

Outlining the area in brambles will not stop dogs from barking at them. The gate in the fence will need to be kept clear of brambles, could a dog jump over that or menace from it?

It would be easier to maintain a perimeter of roses rather than brambles. 400 square feet means an 80-foot perimeter.

If brambles are used, note that most raspberries will spread underground to inside the enclosure, while most blackberries will stay put if you keep the cane tips off bare ground in autumn.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'm going to have to read up on wineberries.

There are dogs (one in particular) that really like to DIG, so I'm hoping the brambles with discourage them from trying to go under my fence. I do plan to bury it, too, but I just like the added barrier brambles would provide.

I haven't actually built the fence or gate yet, but I'm definitely going for height to keep the chickens in and predators out. Could a dog menace from it? Yeesh. Probably. I'm going to have to come up with something there. We've actually considered not putting in a gate at all since we can access the run area from the house.

Plants spreading underground *should* be okay because on the run side there's a wall and on the other side I should have no trouble managing them. It's hard to explain about the wall... it's like we're on a hill (which I suppose we are, although it's not steep at all) and someone dug out a large area to put in the house, with a kind of patio next to it. They then build a wall into the hill on the sides around the patio, if that makes sense. So you have this patio area with raised ground all around it, kept from crumbling in by the wall. Then someone destroyed the patio cement or whatever was there, so now it's dirt and weeds and such. That's what we're using for the run. So on two sides there are these two and half foot walls and on another side there's the house, and one side is open. We'll build fencing on top of the walls and on the open side. Which is probably more information than you really wanted, but there you go. :)

Hi again, all. I've read up on wineberries, and they look great! I've emailed OIkos to see if they'll ship them now or not. Edible Landscape seems to want phone calls only, so I'll wait and see what Oikos says. Thank you so much!

If a gate is made, put some large pavers in front of it to prevent digging.