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When to REgraft?

Posted by megamav 5a - NY (My Page) on
Wed, May 29, 13 at 15:15

We're approaching June now, and a few of my grafts havent taken.

Some pushed leaves out then shriveled up and died.
Some pushed the buds, then stopped, but the little leaves sticking out are still green.
Some are growing like weeds, the grafting wood on these have doubled in size, obvious takes.
Some are not shriveled, and when making a slice cut into a couple, they are still green, but the buds havent moved. I covered the slice back up and put wax over the top.

What should I do?
Should I wait longer? I grafted first week in April.
I have wood to regraft, I just dont know what I should do.

Any other tests I can do for viability?

-Eric


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: When to REgraft?

I've had grafts take longer than that, sometimes waiting a full year (!) to appear, or reappear after apparently dying.

For sluggish grafts, including those which have pushed but stalled out, it can help to remove a strip of bark directly above the graft. It's been discussed here before, but in case you missed it what I do is just take my small pruning saw or my pocket knife and grind/slice out a section long enough to reach beyond the grafted branch, and deep enough to interrupt the flow from above. It can make a dramatic difference.

I'm wary of regrafting this late, but it can be done. I probably wouldn't try on the ones that aren't convincingly dead, but if they are dessicated you might as well.

Good luck.


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RE: When to REgraft?

I often do chip buds with dormant wood when the initial round if looking dicey (I also used to do chip buds as backup at the same time I did the main grafts). Put the bud high up so it will be dominant and take off. Give it 2-3 weeks before trimming off the bit above. If the spot is not good you can at least harvest wood from it and put it in a better spot later - beats trying to get the variety again.

Scott


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RE: When to REgraft?

Scott: Wha?? Does this mean one should save their scions because one can chip bud them later onto an actively growing tree? I know they have to still be in decent shape, but wow if that is the case that is exciting news!

Quill is doing cartwheels


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RE: When to REgraft?

Really only 1 is shriveled up like a raisin.
The rest uncertain ones look to be at least partially taken, then stopped, but not dry.

I've made sure all new growth on the stock branches have been removed if there is a graft on it. The one that is deader than a doornail had a growth behind it that I left on, that I probably shouldnt have, but im inexperienced. I removed it last week, maybe the adjacent cleft thats a little green will go.

I have the extra wood, but I dont want to regraft if all its going to take is time. Would it help for me to include pictures?
If its bud and little leaves are green, is the tree still keeping it alive? The one dead graft went from looking firm and lively with its growth to brown, shriveled and dead within a week.

I did a small slice to get into the wood of the graft I thought is still alive and it was green. It was a slice made in the middle of the graft.

I guess if it aint dead, I'll leave it.
These branches are pretty big, about 3" in diameter for the 1 dead cleft, and a 1 year wood for the central leader im trying to make, and that seems to have halted.

I regrafted Reine des Reinettes on one branch because there was a mistake on my part not tapering the scion properly. Otherwise I've left them on untouched.

The grafts that have taken have put on a lot of girth and pushed leaves, even flowers. This seedling tree must be pumping sap like a factory. They've doubled in caliper.

If they dont take, do they dry up?
Or sometimes just stay there with no growth and dont dry up?


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RE: When to REgraft?

If they don't take they will dry up. The dead giveaway is when longitudinal lines appear in the bark as it shrivels. The scion will pull away from the wood and be loose to the touch (usually).

Grafts may take without the bud emerging. Sometimes you just get blind buds and they won't do anything. But in at least a couple of cases I've had new growth from buds that I gave up on the year before. This year I'm elated because a bud which took last year, and then died, is resprouting. In that case new growth is happening in two parts of the bud which had died.

It sounds like you're getting huge initial growth -"doubled in caliper"- but it doesn't always happen that dramatically. Nice for you that it has, though! But you don't really want the flower yet, and if there is any other growth on the graft the flower should be pinched away. Do not let it grow fruit, or it will compromise the scion.

Just my experience. Others will likely have other thoughts.


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RE: When to REgraft?

Mark,

Thanks.
As soon as the petals drop, I'll look for fruitlets, and clip.
Otherwise, i'll let the blossom heads drop naturally. I dont think any of them will become fruit, nothing was blossoming when this was, but I'll keep an eye on it. As soon as I see swelling I'll clip it.
Its only on the Reine des Reinettes graft on a thick scaffold.

Its a crab apple im turning into a 4 in 1 grafted tree.
I should take a pic of a branch that has 1 cleft that took and 1 that didnt or hasnt yet to see the size of before and after, its pretty insane. Double caliper is no over exaggeration, and may be an understatement, slightly. The scion looks so bloated, its ready to explode.
This must be a seedling, because there is no graft union to be found.
Pics in the morning when its light.
Thanks guys, I think I'll just leave it alone and regraft in the future with its own wood, because it looks like it wont be a problem considering how much growth im getting so far from what has taken.

This post was edited by megamav on Thu, May 30, 13 at 0:02


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RE: When to REgraft?

Sure, wait and see.
I would graft to water sprouts, vigorus shoots next year with much better results.


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RE: When to REgraft?

Here is that double caliper Belle de Boskoop graft.
The left one hasnt taken, possibly yet, but thats essentially how much weight its put on in a month. It took 4 weeks to get any green out of it.


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RE: When to REgraft?

This is the cleft that has the one scion that dried up on me.
The closer one has green movement but stopped.
I think there was some interference from a 1 year growth about 8" behind the graft, stealing sap. I thought with a seedling root, it wouldnt matter, but I think it may have cost me this one.


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RE: When to REgraft?

This would be hard to figure out, I don't think it was stealing sap, perhaps fire blight/infected wood, or did the other long branches damaged the new growth in the wind?


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RE: When to REgraft?

Well, wind is possible, we've had some wicked storms roll thru here.

I dont think Geneva would send me infected wood, but it would be a good guess. That branch shriveled up and died really fast. No orange goop, nothing, just a raisin.

Its possible it got smacked by a branch, but its under an incredible amount of tension with that large of a stock.


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RE: When to REgraft?

Konrad,

I clipped the branch back to 1 bud (the growth was toast anyway), and the wood looked green, the middle core was a little dry and cambium was green and slightly shiny.

No orange or black.
Not sure if that counts out fireblight, but at least it wasnt dried out or black.


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RE: When to REgraft?

OK good, ..then possibly it got whipped by another branch.


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RE: When to REgraft?

Im thinking a BIG FAT Blue Jay sat on it, and bounced off of it.
Its really the only logical explanation.
Some of our Blue Jays out here in the forest are close to crow size.

*shakes fist*

This post was edited by megamav on Fri, May 31, 13 at 23:27


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