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| Does anyone have this list?
Im curious to see the varieties on it. About him: Professor of Pomology at New York State Agricultural Experiment station, where exists perhaps the most extensive apple variety collection in the United States. -Eric
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Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by harvestman 6 (My Page) on Tue, May 8, 12 at 16:36
| Roger's been retired for over 20 years. Never saw the list. |
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- Posted by scottfsmith 6B-7A-MD (My Page) on Tue, May 8, 12 at 16:46
| I've never seen it. Here as consolation prize are three lists I have seen, from Tom Burford, Ed Fackler, and Tom Vorbeck. Scott
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| Thanks Harvestman. I may have found the next best thing if the list isnt out there. Germplasm Resources Information Network has a database that has a lot of Roger's scion and fruit notes in it. Not thrilled about his assessment of Orleans Reinette. LOL. -Eric |
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| Gosh, I always feel that I've chosen poorly! The only apple I have on all three lists is Jonagold. Ugh, Mrs. G |
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| Dont feel bad MrsG. Taste lists are subjective. Everyone likes something different, and have preferences. If you like smooth texture with a sweet, honeyed flavor, slightly juicy, you'll like it. Very much like Golden Delicious in my opinion with some extra spicy flavors. I didnt think it was phenomenal, to each his/her own. :) Scott, Thanks for that list, I've seen it scattered around the forum, but never combined. I think I'll add it to my blog for reference. Thanks man! -Eric |
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- Posted by harvestman 6 (My Page) on Tue, May 8, 12 at 21:02
| Believe me, all people who get the chance to eat a wide variety of apples off the tree will come up with a different list. What you also need to know about is consistency- especially in your region. For example, I've gotten high quality Braeberns from my tree only one season. As Ed notes, it's difficult to grow for him in Indiana and I haven't had much success with it here in the northeast. We should put together a list of favorite, dependable apples. I would start with Goldrush. |
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| harvestman, I think if we're to come up with a list, we should include some information thats more identifiable, like zone and harvest season for your zone, i.e. Mid-October. Mine: -Eric |
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| I've got eight on those lists and have tried that many more. But it's a real crap shoot as to how they will perform down here as compared to wherever those list originate. |
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- Posted by hoosierquilt z10a/23 Vista Calif (My Page) on Tue, May 8, 12 at 22:40
| Well okay. How about some mild climate, low chill selections: Anna - a great "beginner's" apple. Crisp, sweet with a hint of spicy tartness. Prolific and disease resistant. And, you'll get 1 crops if you're in a mild enough climate. Dorsett Golden - an outstanding apple. Early like Anna. Firm sweet and our alternative to Golden Delicious for low chill areas, only it's better. Pink Lady (Cripps) - a late low chill. Very distinct. Spicy a a wee bit tart but even I like it (the queen of sweet). Good option to extend your apple harvest for us in Calif. Fuji and Red Fuji - Nuff said about this apple, we all know how good it is. I think the red sport tastes a bit more interesting. And they keep really well in the fridge. That's my list. I'd add Eishemer but I'd probably get booed off the forum by my Calif. apple growers. I happen to like them. They're small, crisp and spicy. But I know they're not a favorite of many. Patty S. |
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- Posted by scottfsmith 6B-7A-MD (My Page) on Tue, May 8, 12 at 22:56
| The fact there is so little overlap between the lists also says a lot about varied tastes. There are also a ton of varieties and who has time to experiment with them all. Just for fun I went through my notes and came up with my favorites to see how much overlap I had with the above. Here they are, in roughly ranked order: 1) Freyburg It looks like 8 of mine are on one of the lists above, thats actually more overlap than I expected. |
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| I've got 3, 4, and 5 overlaps with the lists. Of my varieties, only Honeycrisp and Goldrush appear on more than one list. All were planted last year (4 on the list) or this year (the other 6), so I haven't had a chance to taste any from my trees yet. Most which were planted last year have set enough that even after thinning I think I'll be able to get 5-7 apples per tree. The Sweet 16 was a bit strange in that it was one of just two which bloomed last year when I first planted it, yet now it had one of the lightest blooms- just one bunch of flowers, even though the tree is one of the largest. Burford Fackler Vorbeck |
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| Thanks for the list Scott Burford None Fackler Vorbeck |
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- Posted by harvestman 6 (My Page) on Wed, May 9, 12 at 5:37
| Here I manage only one Sweet 16 and it's taken forever to come into bearing on 111. Finally tasted it last year and to me it tasted like it was infused with artificial flavor. It tasted different alright, disturbingly so. I have never had that experience with another apple. This year it is fruiting on only one branch. This is not a grower friendly apple, at least not when young. |
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- Posted by Randy31513 Georgia 8b (My Page) on Wed, May 9, 12 at 7:06
| Patty my Anna is excellent but the Golden Dorsett is just not that good. I wonder if it is a difference in like the humidity between your location and mine? On my tree it is hard to pick it just right with a ripe window of about an hour. :) If I could find a replacement pollinator for the Anna the Golden Dorsett would be out Randy |
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| That made me so happy to see Pink Lady and Sundowner on some of those lists. I worked with John Cripps on the apple breeding at Stoneville Research Station. I remember choosing 10/138 (Pink Lady) and 9/90 (Sundowner) from the breeding block (With John) I thought Sundowner was the superior apple, however Pink Lady seemed to get all the promotion. If you ever get the chance to eat a Sundowner that has been grown in the right district and picked right (much later than anyone picks them)You have eaten the pure essence of apple flavour, brilliant texture and the perfect sugar acid balance. But very few people are going to have that experience. |
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| That's interesting to hear Harvestman. I wonder it is too warm in our area, per Ed Fackler's "Much easier to grow up north" comment. It was definitely warmer than usual this winter and both the one you manage and mine had weak blooms (1 branch each). Mine actually had much more last year when I had just stuck it in the ground (from Cummins). Since I was just getting started, there wasn't much to pollinate it (just one cluster on a Priscilla- I'm not sure the timing matched), so no fruit set. The description from Cummins says "Cherry twizzler" flavor, so that matches up pretty well with the artificial taste you encountered. I happen to like twizzlers though, so I'm looking forward to it. :) |
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| I have to say a plug for Pink Lady. I love that apple and wish I could grow it where I am. I seem to recall it needs a long growing season, which I do not have. If sundowner is better.. WOW. I will look for that apple and see if I can at least buy it if not plant it. Dan |
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| Found it! This is his list of twenty in the approximate order of taste preference: Spigold Note: This list is from 1966 -Eric |
Here is a link that might be useful: PubHort Reference
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| Notes from list above: N.Y. 45500-5 is Empire -Eric |
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- Posted by robert_2007 5b/6a (robertcharper@gmail.com) on Mon, Dec 22, 14 at 14:43
| Our best apples for taste, here in east central Connecticut are: Sweet -16 Looking to trade for Stark's Red Gold. If you have Stark's Red Gold, and want to trade, please send a direct email to: |
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| "Here I manage only one Sweet 16 and it's taken forever to come into bearing on 111. " Mine finally came into bearing last summer. I got the scion wood years ago from the Catholic Homesteading movement. From descriptions I was expecting a big "wow factor" with a hints of vanilla. It did nothing for me (or my wife). Admittedly, it was just one apple and one harvest, which doesn't indicate a whole lot (the apple was ripe - at least the seeds were brown). Still holding out hope it will get better. Can anyone offer any more comments on Akane. There was an owner of an apple orchard just outside my area (he's since sold his orchard) but he indicated Akane was one of his best selling apples. I've been tempted to try it, but the late Tom Vorbeck listed it as a sour apple. It's also been described as a Mac type apples. Doesn't sound appealing to me. I never met a Mac I liked. I'm one of those Ed Fackler describes who generally equates flavor with wonderful texture. In other words, it doesn't matter how good an apple's flavor is, if it doesn't have a good crunch, it's a spitter. How does the crunch of Akane rank? |
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| I've only got a bit more experience with Akane than you do with Sweet Sixteen- 3 apples in 2013. I may have gotten 1-2 this year, but didn't keep enough records. I have a vauge recolection of getting a few strongly flavored sweet-tarts. The tree is only M27, so it is still pretty small after 4 years in the ground. My notes describe it as: - Mid-late August - 14-17 brix, very tart, given the relatively high brix - Very white flesh - Not too much juice or crispness, but is very dense with a strong crunch I've never been a Mac fan, so saying I like Akane better than Mac isn't too much of an endorsement. It definitely has better texture than a mac. The high brix (very high for that time of year) and sharp flavor make me like it enough to give it a few more years. If you get Sween Sixteen when it first ripens (~Sept 1st for me) it doesn't have the interesting flavor that it later develops (~9/10). When they are first ripe, it is somewhat like a slightly sweeter Honeycrisp without the big crunch. Not bad, but not at all like the later ones. If you want to get a preview, pick one with insect damage or cracking, which accelerates the ripening in the rest of the apple. I had one of those on 8/27 and was disappointed that I couldn't get another for a couple weeks... I should note that the above is from 2013, as in 2014 my Sweet Sixteen took the year off. Maybe 30-40 apples on a 3rd year tree was pushing it...Hopefully it comes back strong. |
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- Posted by scottfsmith 6B-7A-MD (My Page) on Mon, Dec 22, 14 at 23:00
| Akane was one of my favorite tasting apples. It is like Mcintosh but with a lot more sugar and flavor, and less of that rubber skin and more crunch. Not a great crunch, but better than Macintosh. But it still has that soft skin which in my climate is far too disease prone, and it never produced a lot (partly because I would lose many to rots). So I removed it last winter. Scott |
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| Bob, You and Scott have me thinking of giving it a try. I generally don't like to plant things I don't like that well, but maybe some of my customers would like it. If I do decide to try it, could I get some wood from you? |
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| Sure. Send me an email when you want it sent. Also let me know if you'd like to try any others. |
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| Thanks. First time I've looked at your page. You have a lot of plants/trees. I may have asked you before, but how do you like White County? I believe you've had it for a few years. As you may recall, I tore mine out. My wife still misses it. |
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- Posted by john222-gg Mississippi 8a/8b (My Page) on Tue, Dec 23, 14 at 18:00
| I think there is a lot more about taste than just the name. You have diffrent zones,different climates,different humidity, different light. In my little experaiance with fruit every thing makes a diffrence.You just have to try. One small example if you buy fuji apples small ones are grate, large ones are bland and mushey. I think less or more fertilizer.Just try |
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| Olpea, I've added more, but my page is about a year out of date. I tried to update it last week and wasn't able to change it, even with a short message. If anyone knows how, please let me know. I sent the admins a message, but haven't heard back. I planted White River and White County in March 2013, but haven't sampled either yet. The White River is in-ground and has put on good growth, but didn't fruit in the 2nd year. Sometimes I get a few in year 2- this one was weakened by borers, but at least it made it, unlike its neighbors, Jefferson and PF15a. Next year is #3, so there's a good chance I'll get some. The White County is in a pot, partially because of your less than enthusiastic review. My track record with potted plants isn't great, so I'm giving it to my brother to plant. I'll probably take a snip of scion and graft it onto one of my in-ground trees, just to try it. |
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| I'm actually getting less enthused about whites in general, although I did order White River for this coming spring. I had one before but it drowned before I could fruit it. You'll have to tell me how well you like it. May I ask who you got your Akane tree from? BTW, if you want any wood from me, let me know. I don't have that many apples, but have quite a few peaches although I don't have Jefferson and unfortunately all of Paul Friday's varieties are still patent protected. |
This post was edited by olpea on Tue, Dec 23, 14 at 23:15
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| I got Akane from Raintree in 2011, on M27. It's currently about 5.5' tall and has a decent amount of branching- it is big enough now that it should be able to make more than 2-3 apples. I took a look at a few of your old posts and if you have the spare wood, I'd like to graft Clayton, Winblo, and Johnboy. I used to have Winblo, but it was in a pot and I managed to kill it, the year after it gave me ~20 peaches. I want to try it when it isn't being over-cropped to the point of blandness. |
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- Posted by harvestman 6 (My Page) on Wed, Dec 24, 14 at 12:03
| Bob, that tree has had 4 years to grow and still has not supplied you with a real crop? Have you done all you could to encourage vigorous growth- water, N. and weed control? I believe commercial growers expect that root stock to be bearing ample fruit after 2-3 years, no? At 4 it should be in full productivity. |
Here is a link that might be useful: In praise of M27
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| None of my M27 have been real productive. I've done much better with full dwarf (B9/G11/G16), than mini-dwarf. I think M27 could be good, but only if you pay very close attention to it. Very few of my apples set very well this past year (on any rootstock). Only the Priscilla had a decent crop, about the same size as the year before, even though I had grafted over the upper portion. The apples from it were pretty good too- I'm not planning on grafting over the rest of it anymore. HGG would have had a good crop (see below). Sundance also had a moderate crop (1st time in year #3), with most others (including Goldrush and WIlliam's Pride, smaller in year #4 than in #3) having small crops. Some of it could be letting them bear too early. I thinned quite a bit, but more would probably have helped. While they are all well staked and mulched, I haven't watered them very much. I should probably give them a couple more good soakings during the dry parts of July. I got 5 in 2011 from Raintree: Ashmead's Kernel- never leafed out, but a single bud from the graft union did grow. After a year, I transplanted it back into a pot, which I later replanted after it yielded 2 apples and I verified that it wasn't just rootstock. Enterprise- looked like it had a good root system when I planted it, but it never leafed out. Akane- 3 apples in 2013 (3rd year) and probably a couple more last year. Hudson's Golden Gem- It has set big crops the last two years. In 2013, all but one of the dozen+ apples cracked and rotted. In 2014, I lost most of the ~20 apples to animals. The 3 I picked were very good. Red Boskoop- This is the biggest M27. Maybe 7.5' tall, it seems like a good size to me. It has been covered with blooms the last 2 years, but hasn't ripened a single apple. There were a few which made it into summer, but none made it all the way. |
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- Posted by harvestman 6 (My Page) on Wed, Dec 24, 14 at 20:35
| Bob, I thought M27 was a real dwarf topping at about 6' at maturity. You didn't answer my question about management practices. I do not manage any full dwarfs so I'm just curious what the problem might be. Smallest trees I work with are M26 and they can be runted out if they face drought in their establishment years. Very difficult to get them back to vigor. |
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| The Akane and the HGG are both in the 5-5.5' range, so most M27 probably do top out around 6'. I think the AK is also around 6', and pretty spindly (from it's time in a pot). The Red Boskoop seems to be a very vigorous cultivar. I'm pretty happy with the size- basically a nice large bush with everything within reach. Of course, the fact it hasn't matured any fruit is a pretty big negative. I haven't added many other M27s and probably won't. I've got some G65, which I'm looking forward to seeing how they develop. In terms of size, B9 has been just about perfect so far for me. Most seem to be under ~9' and a bit spreading, or at least slow enough growing that I can spread the limbs. In terms of management, I keep everything thoroughly wood-chipped. In recent years, I've been watering with the hose, maybe 4 times per summer, during dry spells. Otherwise, I rely on the chips. Most springs, I've gone around and tossed some slow release 10-10-10 on there, but haven't had any concerted fertilization. Last year, I sprayed Surround 3 times- the only thing I've yet sprayed. The spacing from the M27 above is double row with 4' in-row and ~6' between rows. They seem plenty far apart. I've even though of putting another tree or two in the middle. I've held off and it looks like a bird planted a currant bush in the middle, which I've held off on weeding and will see what it produces. In recent G65 plantings, I've gone much closer- with both 2' and 3' rows. |
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| "I took a look at a few of your old posts and if you have the spare wood, I'd like to graft Clayton, Winblo, and Johnboy." Bob, that sounds like a plan. I'll trade some Akane for the peach wood. I collect my wood sometime in Feb. Could you email me through my website so I have your real email address? Thanks |
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- Posted by harvestman 6 (My Page) on Thu, Dec 25, 14 at 10:38
| With a dwarf tree I expect wood chips may actually tie up enough N the first few years that supplementary urea would be a real plus. 3 or 4 applications from early spring into mid-summer would probably do the trick. It is harder and very important for dwarf trees to sustain relatively good vigor based on all I've read and experience with M26. I just don't get the same response from slow release N. If you want to go organic, save your urine and use it. That's what I use in my own orchard. |
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- Posted by michael357 5b, KS (My Page) on Thu, Dec 25, 14 at 19:39
| Had for the first time this year many Golden Russet, hard, sweet limp flavor, C.M. magnet. Also Jonagold, big, juicy, crisp, semi-sweet as they were harvested too soon. Wagner, my favorite, great flavor, crisp, sweet, big. jonafree and Freedom, both very productive but could have better flavor but, sure is nice not having to spray them once CAR and FB seasons are over. My best taster is from an extremely old tree in town var unknown I grafted 4 years ago, it was set to have its 1st productive year but, a damned buck scraped it last Winter!!! Called Judy's Favorite, it's parent bears large, sweet, crisp, delicious, juicy fruit. Looking forward to the years ahead on Js Fav. I do sample the cider apples but, well.......... Not worth reporting. |
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- Posted by scottfsmith 6B-7A-MD (My Page) on Fri, Dec 26, 14 at 9:11
| I'm glad to hear of another Wagener fan. I have only gotten a few fruits but its becoming one of my favorites. It is in the classic American apple flavor profile but has something special in the flavor. You could put up some pix of Judys Favorite and see if someone here can ID it. Scott |
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- Posted by michael357 5b, KS (My Page) on Fri, Dec 26, 14 at 15:28
| With any luck i'll get a few or more next Fall and will post some pics. Just looked and there about 20 fruit Hudson the 2 trees but haven't done any pruning yet. BTW, they have excellent CAR and scab resistance if not immunity, no signs yet of FB either. I didn't spray them at all this year as 3 years of previous observations of the parent tree have revealed none of those maladies. The parent sits within 300 ft of a large row of gall filled cedars and the leaves never get infected, guess that's one reason it lived so long as this is cedar country for miles around us. I have 1 other tree planted a few blocks away that is doing the best but never got off my rear to plant a crab near it for pollen. Maybe a Liberty on dwarfing rootstock would be better, a minimal maintenance duo at the location would be real handy. |
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