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Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Posted by tonytran 5a Omaha, NE (My Page) on
Tue, May 14, 13 at 20:19

I am propagating three more Ichi Ki Kei Jiro persimmon trees by choosing the previous fruited branches from last year and air-layering them. This will give me instant fruited persimmon trees for next year. I will unwrap the foil sheets in the middle of July to check for rooting. Once rooted, the trees will be potted and over wintering in the shed. I will plant them in the ground next spring.

Tony


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

  • Posted by murky z8f pnw Portlan (My Page) on
    Tue, May 14, 13 at 20:30

Have you done this successfully before?


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Murky,

I was successfully air-layering one last spring. I used rooting hormone by the cut and wrapped it with moist moss and covered it with foil sheet. it took less then 10 minutes for the process.

Tony


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Tony, aren't you concerned about having less cold hardiness since it'll be on kaki roots with growing in zone 5?


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Creek,
Two years ago I grafted Honan Red, Saijo, Sheng, and Tam Kam on Giant Hana Fuyu seedling rootstocks to test them out with winter protection and they did survived last winter low temp of -12F for a couple of nights in late December and they all leafed out now. With these three branches, I am planning to dig a deep hole below the freezing level so the root does not freeze and mulch the base high up and wrap them with stuff dry leaves for winter protection. I will force them into early dormacy by defoliate them in early September. I love doing all this trials.

Tony


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

  • Posted by murky z8f pnw Portlan (My Page) on
    Wed, May 15, 13 at 12:42

Great work, thanks for sharing the details with us.

Are you aiming for really small fruiting trees? I'm assuming that if they are bearing while so small that will take a lot of the vigor out of them.


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Murky,

Yes, the smaller the trees, the less work for me to do winter protection in the fall.

Tony


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

very interesting post! thanks


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

I have no luck in air layering old wood branches they don't root . Young branches rooted for me successfully.


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

TH,

Just remember to add the rooting hormone to speed up rooting process. Look in the link below, there was a gentleman also air-layering persimmon successfully, but I am not sure if he use the rooting hormone.

Tony

Here is a link that might be useful: Air-layering persimmon


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

I have a Fu Yu persimmon tree in N. VA. It already has small fruit. Is it too late to try this?


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Charlie,

You can do it now. It is only in the middle of may, you will have plenty of growing season left for it to root. I did a 2" bark removal down the the cambium layer and rubbed on the rooting hormone. You can use clear plastic bag to wrap it or a clear plastic water bottle and cut only one side all the way from the top to the bottom of the bottle and pull each side apart then fill it with moist moss. I secured each end with black electrical tape. The last step is to wrap it with foil paper to keep it from getting too hot. Charlie, you need to remove all the persimmon fruitlets on that branch because you want the energy to grow roots and not fruits while air-layering. Just prune back 1/3 of all the branches before you pot it. Good luck.

Tony

This post was edited by tonytran on Thu, May 16, 13 at 11:03


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Is it too late to air layer a FuYu in the middle of July?


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Charlie,

You can give it a try. If the season is too short to form roots then try it again next spring. I did mine back in the middle of May when the tree just starting to leaf out. I unwrapped one of them to see if it has rooted yet a couple days ago. The upper part of the 2" stripped bark callused nicely and starting to form small bumps for the beginning of root formation. Good Luck.

Tony


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Tony (or other experimenters)

Have you had success in air rooting and growing Kakis on their own roots?
I am interested as I suffered a horrible loss last Spring when my very prolific Fuyu suddenly died of sudden death syndrome. I am wondering if growing Fuyus on their own roots will prevent the possible transfer of virus from the American persimmon root stock to the Fuyu.
Also, are Hachiyas and Tanenashis grafted onto American persimmon root stock also? Are they as prone to SDS as Fuyus? Thanks so much for any info. you can provide. Asian persimmons are wondrous fruits and grow very well here in Middle GA. They are now my favorite fruit-- with the added bonus of being available and fresh in November!


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Jodin.

I did some experiment by grafting kaki on Kaki rootstock and it was a success. I have Sheng, Honan Red, and Saijo on Hana Fuyu rootstocks. I wrapped them with several layers of tarp and stuffed them with
dried leaves and just just leafed out last week. Looks like kaki rootstocks broke dormancy later than American persimmon rootstock.

Tony

This post was edited by tonytran on Mon, May 12, 14 at 13:15


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Tony, Can you give an update as to whether the persimmon air-layering experiment worked and if so how the trees did this past season and whether you tried this on both American and Asian persimmon.
Thanks.


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Creek,

I was able to root one of the tree branches. The problem was my zone 5 season was not long enough for them to root. I think this method will work well if you are in zone 8 and above. I saw a recent thread of clonning stone fruits with the wire. I think if you apply the wire on the portion to the branch for one week before air-layering that may speed up the rooting process. I may try that method this spring. I have not try airlayering Virginiana yet.

Tony

Here is a link that might be useful: wire method


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

If anyone gets it to work with Vrginiana, I'd love to hear about it. I looked hard at air layering persimmon when my cloning machine (subterranean irrigation) failed for both green and dormant cuttings. I finally decided against it. Since I have plenty of wild persimmons growing on my property, I found I could achieve a similar effect by simply grafting well established rootstock.


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Tony - I'd think that when evaluating the value of air layering for virginiana, that it needs to be compared in terms of efficiency with the alternative of grafting onto seedling rootstock, which is a fairly quick and straightforward process. The initial setup for air layering appears to be quick, but I would think that the separation and planting of the rooted branch should not occur until the tree reaches dormancy, which leaves a long period to maintain a suitable root growing environment within the enclosures. Do the enclosures require periodic maintenance, replacement of moisture, etc., or is the initial setup adequate to last the entire season?


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Creek,

I used sphagnum moss. It held moisture for the duration of five months with the plastic wrap and aluminum foil. I will trial two more (one Kaki and one Virginiana) air-layering this coming spring with the wire method and let the roots grow all the way to dormant state, sometime in early November. I will then cut them off and plant them in pots. I will update the results in the summer of 2016.

Tony


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Looking forward to it. I found the wire method link very interesting and informative. Thanks for posting that. I may need to fool around with it again next year as well. I wonder if wiring the persimmons would make it worth another try with the cloning machine.


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Jack.

Just make sure you remove the 2" bark into the cambium layer above the wire, apply lots rooting hormone or clonex then remove the wire before wrapping this section up with moist sphagnum moss.

Tony


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Tonytran, the execution of the air layering is perfect.
But from my point of serious sight better instead of making an air layering, to graft on the most appropriate rootstock (depending on terrain), if it is a land with very moist soils, it is best to use Diospyros virginiana, and for the driest land Diospyros Lotus is better .
In your case with air layering, what you get will be a variety with a rootstock Diospyros kaki ( and no one knows how it will behave in different types of terrain) , although usually performs well.

There is a boy from San Diego, who has problems with his kakis grafted in Diospyros Lotus (usually this rootstock has problems in humid lands, as this rootstock has a very shallow root system, only deepens in the land , about 40-50 centimeters ) while the Diospyros virginiana has a very deep root system (this rootstock is more resistant to soil moisture and provide to the grafted variety increased resistance to fungal diseases), next February , I will send some seeds of this rootstock.
The difference between the two rootstock is like night and day.

It seems that the rootstock Diospyros virginiana, is not widely used in the United States is this true?

Best regards
Jose


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RE: Air-layering Kaki persimmon for instant fruited tree

Jose,

Thanks for come up with the wire method. I will give it a try this Spring to see if it helps Kaki and D.V air-layering to root sooner. I usually graft my persimmon on D.V. rootstock for cold hardiness. The reason I am doing air-layering trials because not many people having success doing it. If I can get it right and that will help others.

Tony


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